Where Conservative Policies Lead.
- Thread starter Reverend Blair
- Start date
This should be reason enough to reject Conservative "doctrine" and their bid to privatize the world...but it won't be...
Sadly, I think it will take many more Marie Geddeses to drive this revelation home...
I think I'll call my grandma tonight...
Sadly, I think it will take many more Marie Geddeses to drive this revelation home...
I think I'll call my grandma tonight...
Re: RE: Where Conservative Po
The province had already established a committee to look into this issue prior to this woman's unfortunate death, and in fairness to everyone it is incumbent to wait until the final report is issued with recommendations and conclusions. We also do not know the existing medical preconditions this lady had prior to her death. When all the facts are known, then comments can be made.
Gee, I've heard something like this before, where was it......... :twisted:
Reverend Blair said:
The province had already established a committee to look into this issue prior to this woman's unfortunate death, and in fairness to everyone it is incumbent to wait until the final report is issued with recommendations and conclusions. We also do not know the existing medical preconditions this lady had prior to her death. When all the facts are known, then comments can be made.
Gee, I've heard something like this before, where was it......... :twisted:
peapod said:
Pea. I know you know what I was saying. This commission was set up immediately after the first report came out about two weeks ago. All I was saying is that if we are not to rush to judgement on Gomery as some would like, even though Gomery has been going on for months, then let's not rush to judgement on this after only two weeks. :twisted:
What I am saying bluealberta is that you do not get to tell us what we can and cannot talk about. We have all agreed to try and stop the mudslinging and name calling. I hope we understand each other. 8)
RE: Where Conservative Po
That was sad, very sad.
That is unacceptable. Why is there no money for this? Lots of oil money, Heritage Trust fund money according to Ralph, so whats he saving it for?
That being said and being fair, I do not think it is just an Alberta problem. I recall here a few years ago (I believ 99 or 2000) there was a stink about inadequate seniors homes as well. There was a report done and there were numerous "retirement" or "Senoir care" facilities that were not up to snuff.
I wish I could find a link to that. Hopefully I can find one.
That was sad, very sad.
That is unacceptable. Why is there no money for this? Lots of oil money, Heritage Trust fund money according to Ralph, so whats he saving it for?
That being said and being fair, I do not think it is just an Alberta problem. I recall here a few years ago (I believ 99 or 2000) there was a stink about inadequate seniors homes as well. There was a report done and there were numerous "retirement" or "Senoir care" facilities that were not up to snuff.
I wish I could find a link to that. Hopefully I can find one.
What is needed is private hospitals and public hospitals. We have public soup kitchens that anyone can go to for those who cannot afford food. Similarly we should have public hospitals and private hospitals for those who can afford it. Liberals/NDP want to have private healthcare made illegal. At least the conservatives are willing to admit that we would be better off with the option for private healthcare still open.
The Philosopher said:
Private health care creates a brain drains towards the private sector, and it creates a double standard. It makes the rich more important then the poor. In the long terme, a Public/Private healthcare systeme will fail. And the ones to loose of it, will be us.
Though a solutions is needed, privitasation isnt it.
And the seniors home problem is also present in Quebec. Though, we do not have oil money. And we arnt debtless. I do not understand why this is happenning in Alberta, arnt you people rich?
Numure said:
I dispute the claim that there will be a brain drain to the private sector. Why does everyone automatically assume that all health care practitioners will automatically go to a private hospital or clinic if they exist? If a private hospital is allowed to operate while still being funded by the public health care system, where is the cost increase? I also put a little more faith in our doctors and nurses than that, and quite frankly, if all that some are interested in is the almighty dollar, then I don't want them working on me anyway.
The bottom line to me is that in order for our health care system to survive both practically and fiscally, we have got to explore some kind of public/private mix. What I see as the big impediment to this is the absolute refusal of the left to even consider this option, while the right acknowledges there is a problem and wants to work towards a viable and mutally agreeable solution. The left has got to quit getting bent out of shape every time the word private is mentioned. Until that happens, we will continue to have a failing health system (I believe other posts have claimed we are somewhere around 35th in the world), with no solutions.
As far as the seniors problem, I have no information other than what has just come out, and I know the government reacted immediately to look into the matter. I have no relatives in senior care, thankfully, so have no first hand knowledge. I do know that in our city, there have a been a number of new senior care facilities built over the last couple of years, both assisted and non assisted care, so perhaps the government realized there was a problem a few years ago and is already working towards a solution. As far as rich goes, I guess so. We found out a few years ago that responding willy nilly to problems only caused problems, so I would suggest that our approach now is a little more cautious and prudent. However, with the seniors issue, I agree this does not look good, and I hope a quick resolution happens. This is not acceptable, at least on the surface. I will do a little research into this issue and get back to you.
Regardless of what type of system our healthcare is supplied under, be it, public, priviate, or a mix of both, we are all going to require these services at some point in our lives and definitely require them as we become elderly.
The fact that we discuss a two tier healthcare system is an open admission of the shortcomings of our publicy funded programs as they are now.
What is causing those shortcomings? One word, Money. or the lack of it. If we had massive amounts of cash to spend we would not be even having these conversations, mabey about details but not about our not having enough facilities or staffing.
The question always comes down to how to fund and administer healthcare so I have a basic question.
Should our healthcare system be administered nationaly?
The fact that we discuss a two tier healthcare system is an open admission of the shortcomings of our publicy funded programs as they are now.
What is causing those shortcomings? One word, Money. or the lack of it. If we had massive amounts of cash to spend we would not be even having these conversations, mabey about details but not about our not having enough facilities or staffing.
The question always comes down to how to fund and administer healthcare so I have a basic question.
Should our healthcare system be administered nationaly?
Knightman said:
Knightman, you said we need massive amounts of money to fix health care. I strongly disagree, as I think there are massive amounts of money there already. What we need is fiscally responsible amounts of money. Here is an example. The last nurses strike in Alberta was supposedly over bed shortage. When the strike was settled, all the increases went into wages, none into beds. The nurses are happy, but there are no more beds. That, to me, is fiscally irresponsible, and no I am not ganging up on nurses. The same thing happened during the last teachers strike in Alberta, all the increases went to teachers wages with no class reduction to speak of. I think there should be a national standard set, but let the provinces run their health system over and above that, and let them set the costs. Provincial governments know more about their province than politicians in Ottawa do.
bluealberta said:
That is a fair assessment and I am sure your correct the fiscal responsibility is a prime issue. if I may, I believe your saying that placement of funds or the misplacment of funds is a source of the problems.
If we are short on staff and wish to maintain and increase our facilities and our capability and at the same time maintain the wage levels would it not have to take an increased input of money though? I agree that we can not in any service continually increase wages at the expense of other requirements, this does not and can not strike a balance in the service provided however we will create a lot of "unhappy campers" if we attempt to reduce the wage structure at this point. We only have one direction to go and that is more, but as you pointed out it has to be responsible and correctly directed........
Knightman said:
My point is why does the building and infrastructure have to be publicly owned? If someone wants to open an MRI clinic, for example, even if the maching is bought with public funds, which is probably desireable, then the public does not have to buy the building. That alone should save thousands, if no millions, that could then be spent on getting doctors, nurses, etc. Why do the bricks and mortar have to be publicy funded and owned? Think of it comparable to dentists, except the "dentists" in this case would be paid for by the public health care system. And in reality, most dental work is paid for by private insurance companies, so maybe this is another option to look at?
bluealberta said:
Certainly privatly owned realestate and the space simply being rented by doctors, dentists, chiropractors and physiotherapist is a respectable way to conduct bussiness. the same is done with x-ray labs, blood labs and a great deal of the other support services in the medical treatment industry. The private sector builds and maintains the buildings and simply collect the rent. Could that be expanded to actual hospitals as well, those are very special function buildings but I suppose it is possible.
I would be interested to see study work done on the possible savings that coarse of action could provide.
The topic of this thread was pointing out the lack of staffing in a care facility and the porblems that was causing. If I ran a care facility as a private venture, the objective would be to provide assistance to elderly that required it at whatever level they required it, but I would also have to keep a watchful eye on my botom line, profitability and effectiviness. if things got tight I would need to reduce some aspects of the operation to maintain profit however slim, that is just business, "no money, no reason to do it" The flow of profit dictates what level of care and quality of care I could provide.
This already occurs in say the church run care homes that are available throughout the country, we have several here in this city and they seem to be opperating fine at least to my limited knowledge of them. I do however have quite a bit of experience the working with the elderly in that I already assist several to get to doctors appointments, hospitals, set up equippment for them and so on. Overall I would have to say the institutions here do quite well. I do feel the doctors must be maintianing heavy work loads as sometimes the waits are quite long even to meet scheduled appointments though.
From my point of view the various systems can use a spruce up and a good fine tuning, if anything it is lack of staffing and professionals that I see being the bottleneck and that is where I would like to see the money spent. Equippment for them to use being a close second.
Whenever I am on one of these adventures and they are that, sometimes, I have lots of opportunity to talk to hospital staff about how things are going. What is being discussed on this thread so far are right in line with what I hear..........
Knightman:
I guess what frustrates me is that virtually everyone on both sides of the political spectrum agree there are problems that need fixing, in all provinces. The right would like to explore an expansion of the private/public mix, but whenever the left, or at least the radical left, hears the word "private" they man the barricades because the hordes from the west are coming. That attitude alone discourages any real discussion or debate, and the final solution is simply throw more money at it, with no more accountability than before and no more results than before.
Until someone has the cojones to actually go ahead with this, and damn the complaints, nothing will ever change, and that is not only frustrating, but fiscally irresponsible.
I prefer to expand the existing public/private mix, because the present solution has not worked, as we all seem to agree. There have been study after study, and we don't need no more damn studies. What we need now is action not words. :twisted:
I guess what frustrates me is that virtually everyone on both sides of the political spectrum agree there are problems that need fixing, in all provinces. The right would like to explore an expansion of the private/public mix, but whenever the left, or at least the radical left, hears the word "private" they man the barricades because the hordes from the west are coming. That attitude alone discourages any real discussion or debate, and the final solution is simply throw more money at it, with no more accountability than before and no more results than before.
Until someone has the cojones to actually go ahead with this, and damn the complaints, nothing will ever change, and that is not only frustrating, but fiscally irresponsible.
I prefer to expand the existing public/private mix, because the present solution has not worked, as we all seem to agree. There have been study after study, and we don't need no more damn studies. What we need now is action not words. :twisted: