What would happen to english speakers in quebec if they separated

[Niflmir]

Firstly,
I am not an anglo-phone, I am Ohkwai, in my language, (which I speak even worse then French), Bear in English or Bruin en Francais. I am Onondga. Or better yet, I am an Onondaga Canadian. My priveleges are to the extent of what I can achieve. Not what I can suck out of anyone else at the expense of others. I rally against the waste theft and corruption of my peoples, and against the abuses I fear they will face under a seperate Quebec. I do not begrudge those that point out these flaws in my community, I hold those grudges for those that will not hear what I saye when I show them the truth.

I have a very good friend who was born in New Delhi, India. One day I asked him what language he thought in, just out of curiosity. It turns out that that first language he learned was... s... I can't remember its name. He also speaks Hindi, of course, however, the language he thinks in and is most comfortable in is English. That is what makes someone an Anglophone. I can call "my" language romanian, just to be trite, if I wanted to be. However, denying what I meant by privelege is a poor attempt to disregard my entire argument. I told you to look it up, not to take a definition that I was not using. You have special priveleges whether you acknowledge it or not, and by disregarding them, you are, in your own words, "... suck[ing] [privelege] out of anyone else at the expense of others."

 

[s_lone]

I see bill 101 as a symptom of a feeling of insecurity and lack of self esteme.

If one feels safe in ones skin, they do not need to force others to conform to their will to protect their vision of themselves. They need only be themselves. The Quebecois are a charished part of our Canadian culture and heritage. To loose them, is tantamount to loosing a close family member.

What exactly is it that feeds the mentality that you need to seperate?

Have we not made enough concessions to you?

Do we not show our appriciation of you enough?

I'm genuinely curious. I all I have ever heard is, that we do not respect you. Which is a complete line of BS. I would say it is the other way around, but I would have a bias here. So your point of view is a necessaty, for me to get a better picture. I'm sure you have a excellent picture of my worries, lol.

To explain the roots of the seperation movement in Quebec would require a whole account of Quebec's history. That being said, I've already stated clearly enough my own point of view towards Quebec seperation. It does not have to do with preserving French nor does it have to do with any ill feelings towards the rest of Canadians. I'm concerned with preserving our independance as Québecois in or outside of Canada.

I don't think at all that Canadians don't respect the Québecois, but I do think they often misunderstand them.

Preserving the French language is another issue for me. Some would want to seperate for that reason but I strongly believe we have all the necessary tools to preserve our language within Canada.

 

[CDNBear]

I have a very good friend who was born in New Delhi, India. One day I asked him what language he thought in, just out of curiosity. It turns out that that first language he learned was... s... I can't remember its name. He also speaks Hindi, of course, however, the language he thinks in and is most comfortable in is English. That is what makes someone an Anglophone. I can call "my" language romanian, just to be trite, if I wanted to be. However, denying what I meant by privelege is a poor attempt to disregard my entire argument. I told you to look it up, not to take a definition that I was not using. You have special priveleges whether you acknowledge it or not, and by disregarding them, you are, in your own words, "... suck[ing] [privelege] out of anyone else at the expense of others."

Funny, when did you get an invite into my head and become an expert on how I think?

I did not disregard your entire arguement, I dismissed it entirely. You missed my point completely.

We all have privileges, in some way shape or form. I do not see how one group, being them Native, French or English, having more then the other as being appropriate.

There is a monumental difference between rights and privileges. Just wanted to mention that, before someone starts throwing Native issues at me.

I'm really not acustomed to being told what to do, but looking it up would be irrelevant at the least, anyways. I did not deny what you ment as privilege, you failed to make a case of it. If I chose only to learn my Native language, that is my right. But it is not my right to expect the rest of the country to bow to my short sightedness. Privileges are earned, they are not some sort of birth right. I am privileged to live in a wonderfully diverse society. I am privileged to have been born when I was, I am privileged to have passed my drivers exam, so as I can get around better. See any mistakes in that? You should, that was your arguement.

The Quebecois are not at any less advantage as a part of Canada, as they would be as a sererate entity.

I am not an anglo phone, no matter what languge you think I think in. In fact, either of those labels, Fronco phone or anglo phone, I find offensive. I am Ohkwai.

 

[Niflmir]

I don't think at all that Canadians don't respect the Québecois, but I do think they often misunderstand them.

I must admit that I do have a hard time understanding the Quebecois. I have lived all over this country excepting the Ontario/Quebec area and have discovered great differences in the people accross the country. I know very little about the Quebecois, but I realize that I should not make arguments from my ignorance. I come to this discussion simply stating that as an English speaker (as a primary means of communication) I have certain privileges, the biggest being my ability to go anywhere in the country and communicate with someone in my native tongue. I get mad at people who, only speaking English, get mad when someone enters their shop and doesn't speak English, and who take a trip to get Quebec and get mad when some of the citizens there do not speak English. To me that is hypocrisy.

 

[CDNBear]

To explain the roots of the seperation movement in Quebec would require a whole account of Quebec's history. That being said, I've already stated clearly enough my own point of view towards Quebec seperation. It does not have to do with preserving French nor does it have to do with any ill feelings towards the rest of Canadians. I'm concerned with preserving our independance as Québecois in or outside of Canada.

I don't think at all that Canadians don't respect the Québecois, but I do think they often misunderstand them.

Preserving the French language is another issue for me. Some would want to seperate for that reason but I strongly believe we have all the necessary tools to preserve our language within Canada.

Cool, thanx.

I was actually hoping for something more then what I have read from you so far. But in any case. What exactly is the driving force for your independance?

Do you liken it to that of the Native peoples?

In either case, Native or Quebecois independance, I don't see the point. From where I sit, the Natives have not the ettiquet or maturity to self govern and the Quebecois, with all their pomp and luster, seem to suffer the same woes. That does not include you s_lone. You know the type of people I am referring to.

 

[CDNBear]

I must admit that I do have a hard time understanding the Quebecois. I have lived all over this country excepting the Ontario/Quebec area and have discovered great differences in the people accross the country. I know very little about the Quebecois, but I realize that I should not make arguments from my ignorance. I come to this discussion simply stating that as an English speaker (as a primary means of communication) I have certain privileges, the biggest being my ability to go anywhere in the country and communicate with someone in my native tongue. I get mad at people who, only speaking English, get mad when someone enters their shop and doesn't speak English, and who take a trip to get Quebec and get mad when some of the citizens there do not speak English. To me that is hypocrisy.

I agree with you 100%.

But the privilege you keep referring to is not some sort of English birth right, it was by choice. There are TWO OFFICIAL languages in this country. If you wish to travel in areas where one is dominant, then you should expect defficulty if you do not know the local lingo. That is not privilge, that is common sense.

If I go to Rome, I do not automatically think I should be served in French or English. If I go to Quebec, I automatically beleive I will be served in French. As I should be, it is a French province. I make every attempt to converse in French. Which because of my political views, I vowed never to speak again as a teen. Once angain, not a privilege, a choice.

 

[Niflmir]

I did not disregard your entire arguement, I dismissed it entirely. You missed my point completely.

Just what distinction are you making here?

We all have privileges, in some way shape or form. I do not see how one group, being them Native, French or English, having more then the other as being appropriate.

But I agree entirely, having those priveleges as a birthright is not appropriate, however, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Read up on some feminist literature if you are interested in the theory of this.

There is a monumental difference between rights and privileges. Just wanted to mention that, before someone starts throwing Native issues at me.

Agreed, goes without saying.

I'm really not acustomed to being told what to do, but looking it up would be irrelevant at the least, anyways. I did not deny what you ment as privilege, you failed to make a case of it. If I chose only to learn my Native language, that is my right.

Unless it is French, apparently?

But it is not my right to expect the rest of the country to bow to my short sightedness. Privileges are earned, they are not some sort of birth right.

I assure you, you just exercised one of your priveleges that you acquired as a birthright: the ability to be ignorant of your privelege. If you knew what I was talking about you would understand that.

I am privileged to live in a wonderfully diverse society.

Wow, you contradict yourself, born into a diverse society unlike so many others. If you were born south of the border you would not have the privelege of being able to identify yourself as a native, instead you would be forced to identify yourself as an American. So being born in Canada has a special privilege compared to other nations.

I am privileged to have been born when I was, I am privileged to have passed my drivers exam, so as I can get around better. See any mistakes in that? You should, that was your arguement.

Ok, now you are simply losing cohesion. Are you attempting to browbeat me with this statement? It really doesn't make any sense.

The Quebecois are not at any less advantage as a part of Canada, as they would be as a sererate entity. I am not an anglo phone, no matter what languge you think I think in. In fact, either of those labels, Fronco phone or anglo phone, I find offensive. I am Ohkwai.

Ok, you have a point here. Labels are bad. I apologize for that, in the spirit of civil discussion. However, you do admit that English is the language you speak best. As such I can say that you are "a person whose primary language is English", then I can point out that having that ability gives you a lot of special priveleges.

 

[Niflmir]

I agree with you 100%.
If I go to Rome, I do not automatically think I should be served in French or English.

But you will be.

In this sentence two priveleges as an English speaker are made clear:

1) I have the privelege to be ignorant of my privelege.
2) I have the prevelege of being served in my primary tongue in all the developed world.

 

[CDNBear]

Just what distinction are you making here?

Disregard, would be a nonchalant act, I down right dismissed it as tripe.

But I agree entirely, having those priveleges as a birthright is not appropriate, however, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Read up on some feminist literature if you are interested in the theory of this.

No matter how many times you say it, privilege, is not a right. It is something earned, granted, or given. It is not enforcable, yet it can be taken away.

Unless it is French, apparently?

You chopped my statement to make your answer seem relevant. The fact of the matter is, if you chose to walk barefooted on glass, expect cut feet. If you CHOOSE to learn but one language, in a bilingual country, YOU set yourself up for difficulty, no one else did it to you.

I assure you, you just exercised one of your priveleges that you acquired as a birthright: the ability to be ignorant of your privelege. If you knew what I was talking about you would understand that.

I am not ignorant of my privilege, there is no privilege involved. Your sudo phylisophycal approach is waining thin. If you learn the languages of the country, then you earn the privilege of unfettered service, from sea to shining sea. If you do not, YOU waive that privilage.

Wow, you contradict yourself, born into a diverse society unlike so many others. If you were born south of the border you would not have the privelege of being able to identify yourself as a native, instead you would be forced to identify yourself as an American. So being born in Canada has a special privilege compared to other nations.

Ummm, as a citizen of North America, I go south of the border, have family there, Natives to boot. You speak of something you know nothing about, as if you wre an expert.

Ok, now you are simply losing cohesion. Are you attempting to browbeat me with this statement? It really doesn't make any sense.

Exactly, it is a simplistic example of your arguement.

Ok, you have a point here. Labels are bad. I apologize for that, in the spirit of civil discussion. However, you do admit that English is the language you speak best. As such I can say that you are "a person whose primary language is English", then I can point out that having that ability gives you a lot of special priveleges.

But, my primary language is and was my choice. No one forced it on me. As was French as a child, when it was spoken in the family home, as was my Native tongue. All choices, no force or coersion, as would have happend in Quebec, if bill 101 was enforced as it was written, but subsequently squashed by schools, as an infringement of the rights and freedoms of Canadians, living in Quebec.

But you will be.

In this sentence two priveleges as an English speaker are made clear:

1) I have the privelege to be ignorant of my privelege.
2) I have the prevelege of being served in my primary tongue in all the developed world.

1) Privilage is what you get from making choices or making an effort to see the whole of a larger picture. The way you put it out, is as if it were some form of right.
2)Because you earned the privilege, for taking the time to learn, it is a global language, that stretches beyond the borders of Canada for a reason.