What would a nuclear 9/11 do to us?

T. Rex

Nominee Member
Good evening folks. I read this somewhere else and must post here. This is warnings and discussion about what would happen and what could happen if there are more serious attacks on US soil. Canadians should take these signs as seriously as our American brothers because we are a target too and what happens to the US economy can and will happen to us too.

Here's the article. Read it.

A Nuclear 9/11 Could Shut Us Down
Written by Rachel Neuwirth
Wednesday, September 29, 2004

http://chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=10027

In our war on terror, the enemy is now positioning to strike America from yet another direction and with a potentially fatal blow, with many thanks to France. The 9/11 Commission pointed out that our biggest failure was ''a failure of imagination.'' That is, our thinking lagged the evolving reality and our key leaders failed to grasp the possibility of such a daring attack and hence we were caught unprepared. We not only failed to imagine such a scenario but we also underestimated the enemy’s intent and its capabilities even as we also ignored those people who tried to warn us about our exposure.

Americans already anticipate a variety of possible internal terror threats and we hope and assume that our government is on the job. But now another ominous warning comes from Professor Howard Bloom. He is a visiting scholar at the Graduate Psychology Department at New York University, an author of two books and articles. If he is right, then there is an urgent need to understand this emerging threat and to respond in time.

After 9/11, President Bush asserted that Islam is a religion of peace and that we need to fight only that small minority of Moslems who are extremists. By now the term ''war on terror'' is gradually being replaced by terms like Islamism, Islamo-Fascism, Islamic extremism, etc. The actions of Moslems around the world, and even inside America, are raising disturbing questions about the mindset of large numbers of people within the greater Moslem community.

King Abdullah of Jordan, after the bombing of the train in Madrid, Spain, made a brief but significant comment. He said that the real conflict was going on within the Moslem world and it was between the moderates and the extremists. He did not say who is winning. This is part of the big picture that the west does not fully understand and hence it is not providing a sufficiently effective response.

Professor Bloom, on his web site addresses Islamic intent and also the rapidly emerging Islamic military capability. This article will summarize both issues from his web site and also include remarks from his lengthy radio interview on the Art Bell show of August 21, 2004.

Islamic Intent

Professor Bloom reviews Islamic history from the time of Mohammed to the present. On his website, www.howardbloom.net, click on ''Islam's War Against the West'' for a sweeping historic overview. Professor Bloom has also studied the lengthy messages issued by Osama bin Laden. The media quotes only a very small part of his statement without reporting that he periodically delivers his long and detailed philosophy of confrontation with the west. Bloom also has contacts from various parts of the Moslem community who provide him with additional insights.

Professor Bloom argues that the extremists are working diligently to radicalize the moderates just as King Abdullah had said. Osama bin Laden is emerging as a heroic leader among vast parts of the Islamic world. Bin Laden teaches that the present life is brief and transitory and of limited value. What is important is to prepare for the eternity of the after-life where true Moslems will find eternal paradise and unbelievers will find eternal hell. Islam is the only true religion and all other belief systems and religions are wrong, even evil. Moslems must all work and sacrifice to make Islam the one religion for all humanity. On this there is no discussion, only acceptance.

Bin Laden also teaches that west and its institutions are all decadent. Freedom, democracy, women's rights, man-made laws, popular culture, etc. are all acts by infidels that must be erased. The west exploits its women who appear in public, dressing and acting immodestly. The place for women is to be protected, in the home, having many children to out-populate the west with its low birth rates.

The decadent west is weak and cannot take pain, sacrifice, and casualties. The true Moslem will glory in martyrdom for it assures eternal bliss.

We deterred the Soviet Union during the cold war with a policy of mutually assured destruction (MAD). Neither side wanted to die and this doctrine of massive retaliation did deter both sides from launching a first strike.

That concept of deterrence does not apply to the Moslem fundamentalists. According to Osama bin Laden he would even welcome the deaths of countless millions of Moslems in the process of toppling western civilization. These Moslems believe there are actually two billion Moslems in the world (rather than the 1.2 generally accepted) and even the loss of 500 million would still leave 1.5 billion, plus they have a high birth rate and can readily replace their losses.

The radicals also believe that this is their time in history to flex their growing power and to crush a decadent west and also to settle the score for all past grievances, both real and imagined. For them there is nothing to negotiate. The infidels will be given a choice. They can convert to Islam and accept Sharia law or they might be allowed to live as second class non-Moslems if they pay a heavy tax. For those who refuse the first two choices the Moslems have a religious obligation to kill the infidels.

And fellow Moslems who deviate too far from Sharia law must also be punished, possibly with death. And no Moslem, either a convert or by birth, is allowed to forsake Islam for another belief--the punishment is death, even if a father must kill a son or a daughter.

This is a brief summary of Islamic intent according to Professor Bloom, an intent that cannot be deterred by any amount of retaliation.

Note that the basic drive of radical Islam does not stem from the Arab-Israeli conflict as some commentators would have us believe.

And appeasement also does not work because nothing short of total conversion to Islam is acceptable, with the limited exception of inferior status and a heavy tax.


But intent is only as dangerous as the capability it can mobilize. We have already seen 9/11, plus ongoing suicide attacks throughout the Middle East and in other parts of the world. Now it is time to examine some far more extreme possibilities.

Islamic Military Capability

On web site www.howardbloom.net on ''Dodging the nuclear 9/11.'' Following is a summary but it is advisable to visit the site and also view photos of the stealth submarine. France has developed an advanced diesel powered submarine. It was designed to run super quiet and escape detection by the current sensors placed by the U.S. along the bottoms of the oceans. It carries 16 cruise missiles that can deliver nuclear warheads. It can travel about 12,000 miles from home and remain submerged, and undetected, for up to 60 days.

France sold the first submarine to Pakistan about four years ago. But Pakistan does not require this weapon system for an adequate defense against India, its main rival. This stealth submarine is capable of striking coastal cities almost anywhere in the world. Pakistan also induced France to show the Pakistanis how to build a shipyard where they have already built their second submarine. In 18 months Pakistan will have its third stealth submarine.

Professor Bloom reminds us that the Moslems in Pakistan are highly radicalized--not all Moslems, but a very significant percentage.

He also reminds us that historically a small number of radicals can seize control of a government away from the majority.

It has happened before, in the 1930's with both Germany and Japan, for example. He explains that Pakistani ''moderation,'' and that government, today depends very much on the survival of one leader, President Pervez Musharef.

We recently learned that even under the ''moderate'' Musharef, Pakistan was proliferating nuclear weapons technology to other Moslem regimes. Bloom argues that bin Laden might wait until submarine number three is ready to then topple Musharef, seize power, and acquire Pakistan's 40+ nuclear warheads for mounting on the submarine's cruise missiles.
At this point we will have ''intent plus capability.'' Osama bin Laden could then direct these submarines to incinerate some of our coastal cities such as Boston, New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc. And in case we had any ideas about retaliation we could be advised that they have a lot more nukes ready to launch in case we do not immediately surrender.

The reader might well think that all this is pure nonsense. America is the world’s greatest superpower and while we cannot be 100% safe, it is still largely unthinkable to us (''a lack of imagination'') that those third world extremists could possibly mount a knockout blow of this magnitude.

Prof. Bloom has discussed all this with our intelligence people. Some take it seriously, some are highly skeptical and others say not to worry because our government is monitoring the situation. As Prof. Bloom says on his web site: ''9/11 woke us up, a nuclear 9/11 could shut us down.''

Americans need to be asking tough questions of our government right now and demanding straight answers. What in the world is France doing selling these stealth submarines to Pakistan? Why does Pakistan need such a dangerous weapons system when it makes no sense regarding any threat from India? Why is the U.S. government allowing this potential threat to develop?

Now even Iran appears more confident and is becoming bolder as it moves rapidly towards long range nuclear capability. There are new threats by Iran to pre-empt and strike Israel and also American interests in the region and possibly beyond.

The stakes keep getting higher and higher. We cannot afford a nuclear 9/11 but realistically what are the chances that America will act in time? History is not encouraging. Never mind the bumbling and appeasement leading up to World War II and fifty million dead. After the bitter lessons of that horrendous conflict we still failed to completely block the proliferation of nuclear weapons to smaller rogue nations although we tried and we did slow down the process for a time.

Twice we failed to stop Saddam Hussein from seeking nuclear weapons. First, in 1981 it was Israel, and not us, that neutralized the Osiraq reactor. Second, after the first Gulf War we discovered Saddam Hussein was close to having a nuclear weapon. We had fought only to evict him from Kuwait and not because we were adequately aware of his nuclear progress. We were very lucky!

We bungled in dealing with the north Koreans who now have acquired both nukes and missiles. We failed to stop Pakistan from going nuclear and now we learn that Pakistan was also proliferating nuclear technology to other Arab states and to Iran.

Today we observe a defiant Iran rushing to mass produce nuclear weapons and we continue to dither with no clear firm plan for action as of this writing. And there are reports that Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia have shown some interest in also going nuclear.

And the longer we wait the weaker we look and the bolder become the rogue states in their quest for nuclear weapons. Whatever effort it would now take to stop Iran, Pakistan and North Korea, it will take far more effort next year.

But where will America's fortitude come from? We are politically divided at home with half the country hating President Bush and candidate John Kerry not offering to form a united national front on this issue. Although western Europe is certainly nervous over Iran they have shown insufficient resolve to act decisively together with America. The U.N. has not shown the needed resolve. And Russia and China are acting to undermine American security in pursuit of their own imperial interests.

If the picture looks ominous it is not because all the good news is being withheld. Some will complain and attack the messenger. But are we better off pretending that this massive danger does not exist? This story is not a secret. There are a lot of people among our leadership who purport to be wise and courageous. Now is their time to come forward and lead this nation.


About the Writer: Rachel Neuwirth is a freelance writer who resides in the Los Angeles area. Rachel receives e-mail at rachterry@sbcglobal.net.
 

Jillyvn

Electoral Member
Sep 15, 2004
104
0
16
Calgary, Alberta
We deterred the Soviet Union during the cold war with a policy of mutually assured destruction (MAD). Neither side wanted to die and this doctrine of massive retaliation did deter both sides from launching a first strike.

That concept of deterrence does not apply to the Moslem fundamentalists. According to Osama bin Laden he would even welcome the deaths of countless millions of Moslems in the process of toppling western civilization. These Moslems believe there are actually two billion Moslems in the world (rather than the 1.2 generally accepted) and even the loss of 500 million would still leave 1.5 billion, plus they have a high birth rate and can readily replace their losses.

This is foggy intellect. The concept of mutually assured destruction doesn't work with "the muslims" because
a) They have nowhere near the same capability as their enemy states as they are largely marginilized and fighting against big dollar countries, like the US
b) "the Muslims" are not a nation. Instead, they are a diverse religious group which happens to include SOME fanatics who are currently garnering all the attention. I would hazard to guess that the majority of the worlds 1.5 million muslims would not be willing to die for Osama's extremist message.

The writer of this article suffers from the "all muslims will go bad, eventually" racist drivel that is so popular today.

He also reminds us that historically a small number of radicals can seize control of a government away from the majority.

It has happened before, in the 1930's with both Germany and Japan, for example. He explains that Pakistani ''moderation,'' and that government, tod^ž#”epends very much on the survival of one leader, President Pervez Musharef.

Ah, the Germany card. I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pull the Germany card. A "small" number of radicals did not "seize" Germany. What a simplistic and nonsensical explanation of an incredibly complex national event.

Americans need to be asking tough questions of our government right now and demanding straight answers. What in the world is France doing selling these stealth submarines to Pakistan? Why does Pakistan need such a dangerous weapons system when it makes no sense regarding any threat from India? Why is the U.S. government allowing this potential threat to develop?

Why does America continue to seel dangerous weapons systems to these countries' enemies, thus mitigating and ensuring a disaster? The US is far from lily white here.

Why doesn't the US lead the pack and SERIOUSLY begin disarming so they aren't percieved as such a threat... and while they are at it, why not address some of the concerns "the terrorists" are raising? Why does war always have to be the answer??
[/quote]
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
I love the way you explain yourself, Jill.

First thing,

The writer of this article suffers from the "all muslims will go bad, eventually" racist drivel that is so popular today.

It's disgusting how western countries like the United States or even Canada will group a group of people into such stereotypes. This happens, unfortunately, but right now it's not a war against a nation, but a war against terrorists. (By the way, I hate the terminology). Lots of propaganda, even that supported by the US government, puts strain on all muslims. Just look at Cat Stevens.

Ah, the Germany card. I love it when people who have no idea what they're talking about pull the Germany card. A "small" number of radicals did not "seize" Germany. What a simplistic and nonsensical explanation of an incredibly complex national event.

I just LOVE that statement. Because, it's so true. Everyone uses the Germany arguement even when, and especially when, it has no basis for comparison.

The people who took control of Germany were not a small ethnic or religious group but rather an idealogical party which garnered support for the party and it's values.

Look, if you're going to compare Germany with Pakistan, why don't you just go ahead and compare it with the United States? They have a group which took power -- the republicans.

But yeah, I just want to reiterate Jillvyn's point. Stop comparing something just not comparable. It really makes you look like an uneducated fool.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
TRex.

Professor Bloom need only read the Koran to understand Islam. Everything said above is Osama's vision of Islam and not the 1.5 million people. Islam respects the people of the Book. ie, the Bible, the Torah and so on. Islam is a peaceful religion and not a by-force convert-or-die religion.

This is a total propaganda to put all Muslims in one side and treat them as terrorists. The US government will love this to happen but fortunately people and citizens of the US and the world are smart enough to know the difference.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,645
129
63
Larnaka
Re: RE: What would a nuclear 9/11 do to us?

moghrabi said:
TRex.

Professor Bloom need only read the Koran to understand Islam. Everything said above is Osama's vision of Islam and not the 1.5 million people. Islam respects the people of the Book. ie, the Bible, the Torah and so on. Islam is a peaceful religion and not a by-force convert-or-die religion.

This is a total propaganda to put all Muslims in one side and treat them as terrorists. The US government will love this to happen but fortunately people and citizens of the US and the world are smart enough to know the difference.

To be clear. It might not even be Osama's view of Islam but the views which are placed upon him by the mainstream media and the American administration.

I'm not saying that Osama is a good or bad man, but I'm just saying you can't believe everything that the American media and government tells you.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
Well said. I am still not convinced that Osama was behind 9/11. I need proof. Everything I've analyzed so far does not lead me to that conclusion. Everything from the way the buildings collapsed to the way the airplanes were just hitting and flying everywhere with no interception, to finding a passport of one of the hijackers among a billion trillion pieces of wreckage and finally to the home movie where Osama is claiming victory for the 9/11. This last part, the movie, is ridiculous. Any one who can lip sync can see that he was not even taking about the event.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
4,080
0
36
The Netherlands
www.google.com
So to summarize it all: never what claim, the American government MUST be behind it :wink: (sorry for my sarcasm, but sorry guys, too many times have you all been blaming all kinds of things on the US government, and I personally find that a bit hyprocite, when on the other hand, you denounce those who try to put it all on Islam (without clear evidence) - not that I agree with that, but please, do find a balance in this)
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: What would a nuclear

I'm pretty sure that Osama was behind 9-11 too, Rick. I think Bush's negligence allowed it to happen and US foreign policy since WWII helped Osama build a following and become strong enough to do it, but I do think he did it.

The scenario of a nuclear 9-11 is likely to happen only in the contest of a dirty bomb though. It might not be Muslim extremists that carry it out either. The second biggest terrorist act on US soil was perpetrated by an American named Timothy McVeigh. The longest running terrorist campaign in the US was carried out by an American named Ted Kaczinsky.

The idea that all terrorists are Muslim or come from abroad is ridiculous. History shows us that most terrorists are home-grown and share values very close to those expressed by the majority of Americans. Since the United States is a wealthy country full of wealthy people and nukes are pretty pricey and hard hard to get into the US, especially if you happen to be dark-skinned and speak with an accent, chances are that any nuclear act of terrorism would be performed by an American.

There's a little bit of reality that George and John weren't talking about during the debate.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
4,080
0
36
The Netherlands
www.google.com
Reverend Blair said:
I'm pretty sure that Osama was behind 9-11 too, Rick. I think Bush's negligence allowed it to happen and US foreign policy since WWII helped Osama build a following and become strong enough to do it, but I do think he did it.
Oh I absolutely agree with you on this, it's a simple fact the US government supported the muhhadjeddin (how do you spell this word?) in Afghanistan during the 80's when they were fighting the Soviets.