What is racism?

[bhoour]

Re: RE: What is racism?

DasFx......
You discriminate by even asking the question......by the way you generalize, and break down our species into races.

It's really to bad your gene pool is so narrow ( as in minded ).

How do I discriminate? I'm not going to argue. If you even knew anything about me or about the content of my character, you would see how your claims of narrow mindedness is totally wrong.

I'm a member of a visible minority and my children will be of mixed race. I don't see my wife as inferior or superior in any way, however I cannot be blind to some genetic differences between us.

My claims of your narrow midedness, are based solely on what you have asked and your responses, not based on your character.
As I have said to even ask such a question is discriminitory and offensive to me as a memer of the HUMAN race.
The genetic differences between you and your wife , are they so great that , that they make either one of you more or less distinguishable as a memeber of our species? If not then why bring them up?

 

[shy]

Dictionary.Com defines racism as:

1) The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2) Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

I agree with point number two, but as for point number one, I'm not sure. We view racism as a negative and to me point number one isn't.

Someone said in a group of people that "Countries that have a predominantly Caucasian population and have a Christian majority tend to be better off than those that don't” Another person told him he shouldn't say that, and that it was racist? Was it?

If someone says, "Most of the poor drivers he's seen and/or encountered have been Oriental people. Is that racist?

Or how about someone saying that "A lot of the murders in Toronto involve Black people." Is this wrong?

I know one should not make sweeping generalizations about entire groups of people, but it seems one is labeled a racist by making any statement regarding race.

For instance, when a Caucasian person questions the need for Black History month and wonders why there isn't a White history month, he/she is labeled a racist.

Just curious what people think, although I'll probably get labeled as a racist.

forgive me if i'm repeating what others have said already... i'm a newbie and am chiming in somewhat late.

however... i do agree with sentence number one being a description for the meaning of 'racism'. especially in regards to 'superiority' (i.e. the nazi regime/hitler, holocaust).

in your first example, it may not be racist depending on the undertone of the discussion. because there are statistical facts that might prove that such a demographic IS better off (i assume you mean financially) but should not be assumed, though, that race has something directly to do with the statistical result.

there are many variables need to be brought up in such a discussion before any assumption is made.

for the next two examples, i woudl say that these definitely are stereotypes and generalizations that definitely play a big role in leading up to racism.

and btw... 'oriental' is not the PC way of describing my culture. 'Asian' is preferred.

such stereotypes causes bad vibes. it spreads negative energy amongst others to have a reason to have less tolerance to other minority groups. while one little statement may not be stemming from some one who is racist (but possibly just very ignorant and naive), it DOES promote racism.

as far as 'white history' month... i think there might be a time in the future when equality is closer where caucasians may be able to celebrate their heritage w/out being labelled as racist. but for the time being, we are so far from equality that this can't be helped.

more minority groups have suffered racist crimes/hatred in our history (which really, isn't too long ago) to have a need for more awareness and therefore, days/months that is intended to remind everyone that we need to move forward with progression and work together in stamping out any racism there might be.

in conclusiong, though, i would have to say that when it comes to the dictionary of definitions, that's all just semantics. are we going to use a dictionary to govern our actually, real-life, human experiences or racism?

please... people (and the expereince of people) are far too complex to have such an important topic be dictated by a couple of statements in a dictionary.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: What is racism?

The genetic differences between you and your wife , are they so great that , that they make either one of you more or less distinguishable as a memeber of our species? If not then why bring them up?

Of course these differences do not make either of us less human than the other, but even if you asked her, she would say there is more genetic differences between us, than say between someone else of european ancestry.

We don't dwell on these differences and they certainly don't play any part in our lives, however neither of us would be foolish enough to say that they don't exist. It is just life, that is just the way it is. I don't see the big deal here. Why must we all be the same? I though we were supposed to embrace differences and that the variety is the spice of life. You seem to intent of wanting all people to be viewed the same.

 

[DasFX]

and btw... 'oriental' is not the PC way of describing my culture. 'Asian' is preferred.

Really? I mean, why is Oriental bad? I mean Asian is so broad! I'm of Indian origin, so could I not be Asian as well? Is not the Far east dubbed the Orient? I mean, we call Iraqis, Iranians, etc, Middle Eastern, but they are Asian as well. Really any geographic reference to describe people in general is wrong.

If a white man is born and brought up in China, is he not Asian? If a white south African moves to the US, is he not an African-American?

How can a geographic reference be the name of a group of people who are very mobile.

 

[Summer]

Well, Das, do you call white people "Occidental"?

 

[DasFX]

If not overall superiority than what only partial?
Better how?
I believe Adolf Hitler thought along the same lines as you in his pursuit of one race, being better or superior, to another.
PEOPLE are better or more skilled at some things, but race has nothing to do with it.
I do not have an inferiority complex, because I believe we as humans, as a species are all equals, so it is simply not possible.

Of course I mean partial. No one can be good at everything. Any person can do anything, but some will find it easier due to their genetic make up.

Prime Example, why are there so many African decendant people in professional sports? You don't think their race has anything to do with it?

How do you attribute the fact that certain diseases afflict certain races more so than others? Genetics. I'm in pharmaceutical research. We're developing a drug that is race specific because through research it has been shown that different races have different responses to disease and drugs.

I'm not here to change you mind, but the sooner we can accept that people are different without it being taboo, the sooner we can move on and live as one species.

If I had a greyhound dog and a basset hound dog, they probably would get along just fine. No one would dispute they are both dogs. But if I wanted to enter a dog in a race, I would pick the greyhound cause they are gentically built for speed, on the other hand if smell was the skill I wanted, I'd favour my basset hound. Am I a dog racist or bigot? Am I?

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: What is racism?

Well, Das, do you call white people "Occidental"?

No I call them Caucasian. Occidental is a hotel and resort chain. I've stayed at one of their places in Domincan Rep. It was very nice.

 

[peapod]

Provide us with links to studies that prove your biological myth daxfax...and I don't mean the studies that tell us what our eyes do everyday. I say you can't. I suggest to you that your carefully look at this websites, because you sound like a rascist to me. Hope you can overcome that.

http://www.newsreel.org/nav/title.asp?tc=CN0149

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

 

[DasFX]

Provide us with links to studies that prove your biological myth daxfax...and I don't mean the studies that tell us what our eyes do everyday. I say you can't. I suggest to you that your carefully look at this websites, because you sound like a rascist to me. Hope you can overcome that.

http://www.newsreel.org/nav/title.asp?tc=CN0149

http://www.pbs.org/race/000_General/000_00-Home.htm

I think you're just picking on me cause I'm not white and of Indian origin. Sorry, I won't continue posting in this thread otherwise you will ban me again. I got to get back to driving my cab and tending to my 7-eleven.

Yes, I'm the racist Indian. I give up trying to ask people to separate human society, emotion and culture from pure science.

I mean, all the arguements presented could also be used to make an arguement that men and women are all the same, they're both humans and what not. I respect other people's opinions so I'm done with this thread. Perhaps the Mods can lock it.

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: What is racism?

[quote="DasFX

Of course these differences do not make either of us less human than the other, but even if you asked her, she would say there is more genetic differences between us, than say between someone else of european ancestry.

We don't dwell on these differences and they certainly don't play any part in our lives, however neither of us would be foolish enough to say that they don't exist. It is just life, that is just the way it is. I don't see the big deal here. Why must we all be the same? I though we were supposed to embrace differences and that the variety is the spice of life. You seem to intent of wanting all people to be viewed the same.[/quote]
We are not all the same, just of the same race. I embrace our differences in culture, religion, etc......it's what makes up the people of the world. I couldn't exist if I didn't. My family is from opposite sides of the planet, very diffrerent places.
Genitic differences exist from person to person, but but do they differentiate any of us being of the same race.......? human? Human DNA is human DNA, no matter where in the world it came from, no matter what genetic/biologica differences you want to look for.
I don't believe that a group of or any one genitic/biological difference(s) makes anyone more/less superior than another of the same species.

 

[Jay]

Although I understand where you're coming from DasFX, I would have thought you would have been smart enough not to bring up such a topic with a crowd like this.

 

[DasFX]

Although I understand where you're coming from DasFX, I would have thought you would have been smart enough not to bring up such a topic with a crowd like this.

I know, perhaps I'm just stupid. If anyone should be sensitive to racism, is should be someone like me. A visible minority in a inter racial marriage. I know what is racist and what isn't and so does my wife. Anyhow, I gotta help the wife with the baking. She likes me to do the measuring of the ingredients. I guess Indians are just more accurate measurers than Czechs. Must be genetic.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: What is racism?

Well, Das, do you call white people "Occidental"?

No I call them Caucasian. Occidental is a hotel and resort chain. I've stayed at one of their places in Domincan Rep. It was very nice.

If white is Caucasian, then Asian is also a proper term for what you call Oriental. After all, Occidental and Oriental are simply old terms meaning Western and Eastern, and not all white people come from the Caucasus.... and not only that, but whites have pretty much moved all over the place as well.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: What is racism?

Well, Das, do you call white people "Occidental"?

No I call them Caucasian. Occidental is a hotel and resort chain. I've stayed at one of their places in Domincan Rep. It was very nice.

If white is Caucasian, then Asian is also a proper term for what you call Oriental. After all, Occidental and Oriental are simply old terms meaning Western and Eastern, and not all white people come from the Caucasus.... and not only that, but whites have pretty much moved all over the place as well.

Fine, you got me. I will call them pigmentally challenged humans.

 

[peapod]

I will be waiting for those studies for you to post daxfax, I mean after all it would prove your theory. Or you can just side step, probally easier for you that way.

 

[Summer]

People of different ethnicities are different in some ways, such as in resistance to certain diseases, or susceptibility to others, or even in some cases how they will react to various medications or even degrees of sun exposure. However, none of these differences can be construed in terms of "superiority" or "inferiority" unless you are talking about something with a very narrow applicability, such as the superior resistance to malaria that is conveyed by having one gene for sickle-cell (having two causes sickle-cell anemia but one simply protects against malaria) or superior ability to manufacture Vitamin D from sunlight, for instance. Light-skinned people can make more Vitamin D; people whose ancestry is from sub-Saharan Africa are more likely to carry the sickle-cell gene. But these are very small differences and outside of certain very specific circumstances they do not make any real difference in terms of a person's life. The human genome is overall pretty similar, far more than its differences from group to group. Even making statements about the athletic abilities of those of African descent is an overgeneralization, really.

At the end of the day, all you can say is that there are some minor differences between groups but that those differences are essentially meaningless in terms of modern life, so to talk of superiority and inferiority is more or less semantically null in 99.9% of conversations one might have about race/ethnicity/etc.

 

[peapod]

I would like Jay and daxfax to show me one gene that shows up in everyone of one race, yet cannot be found in other races...I will be waiting for that.

 

[MMMike]

If not overall superiority than what only partial?
Better how?
I believe Adolf Hitler thought along the same lines as you in his pursuit of one race, being better or superior, to another.
PEOPLE are better or more skilled at some things, but race has nothing to do with it.

Don't be so sensitive, people. This is a fascinating discussion. I see nothing inherently 'racist' in the questions or comments DasFX is saying. If you go back to the original poll question, it was:

Does race account for differences in humans, in that a particular race is superior to others in certain aspects?.

He's not suggesting that one race is better than the other, just that they are different in some respects. At the risk of opening up a whole other can of worms, this reminds me of the reaction to Larry Summers' comments on possible biological differences between the sexes. I guess we have to toe the line that for races or sexes, not only is there equality, there is actually no differences at all. That B.S. IMHO!

 

[Jay]

Anyhow, I gotta help the wife with the baking. She likes me to do the measuring of the ingredients. I guess Indians are just more accurate measurers than Czechs. Must be genetic.

I think your probably just being outwitted here Das....I don't think it's genetics this time. :lol: Does she claim Indians sweep floors and do vacuuming better too, cause I would if I were her! :lol:

Enjoy the baking. I love cooking with my wife.

 

[Doryman]

If not overall superiority than what only partial?
Better how?
I believe Adolf Hitler thought along the same lines as you in his pursuit of one race, being better or superior, to another.
PEOPLE are better or more skilled at some things, but race has nothing to do with it.

Don't be so sensitive, people. This is a fascinating discussion. I see nothing inherently 'racist' in the questions or comments DasFX is saying. If you go back to the original poll question, it was:

Does race account for differences in humans, in that a particular race is superior to others in certain aspects?.

He's not suggesting that one race is better than the other, just that they are different in some respects. At the risk of opening up a whole other can of worms, this reminds me of the reaction to Larry Summers' comments on possible biological differences between the sexes. I guess we have to toe the line that for races or sexes, not only is there equality, there is actually no differences at all. That B.S. IMHO!

Exactly. There are differences between racial groups. Personally I know that there are very recognizable differences in skull shapes and dentition in Mongoloid, Negroid and Caucasoid individuals. There are also physical differences between races as well ( size, shape, color, etc.) So it's impossible to argue that races are not different from each other. However, I have seen nothing yet that can point to one race being superior to any other in any way, unless you count superiority in such petty terms as height, tendency to sunburn, or size of any appendages. (not to be crude, but YES, there are differences based on race.)