Wars sending U.S. into ruin

MHz

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was a key test case for new rules of engagement that emphasized protecting civilians rather than killing insurgents.
Holy, admitting to putting thoughts of civilians at the bottom of the list of concerns is what has some Nazis swinging from the neck until dead. 8 years down the road they are just getting around to thinking about civilians in the line of fire, wow, it is the admission that is surprising, anybody with half a brain already knew civilian deaths were not being minimized, despite all the claims.
 

Machjo

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Let us say that the U.S. withdraws from global involvement, money shifts from defense industry to what?

MHz suggested developing the Colorado Shale deposits. Not a bad idea, but what happens to the mechanical, electrical and aerospace engineers? They know nothing about paving roads. No, we do not have to step backwards, but forward. It will be technology that will ultimately decide our fate. Just look at what advances we have made in medical area's as a result of the space program, or the first successful nuclear bomb detonation. We still can develop the Colorado Shale deposits without displacing our scientific workers.

Technology is neither good nor bad in itself, nor desirable nor undesirable. It's a question of what to do with it. If it's all about creating ever deadlier weapons, then we'd be better off without it.

As for creating new industries, what about education? This could also solve the technology question too, no?

for example, let's say a nine-year compulsory programme were introduced starting at the age of five, with a six-day school week, only statutory holidays off, etc. They'd essentially graduate from high school by the age of 15, and could then go on to earn and save money for higher education at an earlier age, thus giving more of them a change to receive a higher education.

Parents would likely appreciate this too since they could then save money on babysitters, etc.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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Holy, admitting to putting thoughts of civilians at the bottom of the list of concerns is what has some Nazis swinging from the neck until dead. 8 years down the road they are just getting around to thinking about civilians in the line of fire, wow, it is the admission that is surprising, anybody with half a brain already knew civilian deaths were not being minimized, despite all the claims.

Reason for being there not important.

You sent your soldiers into a combat situation hobbled.

You put restrictions upon them that could make the risk of getting killed higher.

Any deaths incurred by this restriction is on your hands, you are killing your own.

No level of good behavior on the part of American forces will validate a conflict in the eyes of those who oppose it. Some hearts and minds will never be changed.
 
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ironsides

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Technology is neither good nor bad in itself, nor desirable nor undesirable. It's a question of what to do with it. If it's all about creating ever deadlier weapons, then we'd be better off without it.

As for creating new industries, what about education? This could also solve the technology question too, no?

for example, let's say a nine-year compulsory programme were introduced starting at the age of five, with a six-day school week, only statutory holidays off, etc. They'd essentially graduate from high school by the age of 15, and could then go on to earn and save money for higher education at an earlier age, thus giving more of them a change to receive a higher education.

Parents would likely appreciate this too since they could then save money on babysitters, etc.

Very good idea, offer every child a chance to get a education beyond high school. We have to get our kids back into the sciences and mathematics and of course not forget technical skills in things like electronics, plumbing, carpentry and other construction skills..
 

MHz

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Reason for being there not important.

You sent your soldiers into a combat situation hobbled.

You put restrictions upon them that could make the risk of getting killed higher.

Any deaths incurred by this restriction is on your hands, you are killing your own.

No level of good behavior on the part of American forces will validate a conflict in the eyes of those who oppose it. Some hearts and minds will never be changed.
I would think the reasons for being there are the most important facts in the whole affair. You can't do that because in both Afghanistan and Iraq you would be guilty of illegal activities with a military force. Now you support a military action against a weaker Nation while making sure ant restraints are removed. That would make a WWII Nazi gag in revulsion.
 

Liberalman

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America is the world police and the world power at this time so they have to continue on their quest if they decide one day to give it up and if they do it too fast then the geo-political structure will fracture which will result in a major world war.
 

MHz

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Very good idea, offer every child a chance to get a education beyond high school. We have to get our kids back into the sciences and mathematics and of course not forget technical skills in things like electronics, plumbing, carpentry and other construction skills..
At first I thought you were talking about the two invaded countries, silly me, I guess they will keep recieving those cluster munition with the bomblet painted to resemble dolls or UN food packets, real classy.

Kids don't have the attention span needed for 'quick learning' that is why the early grades have so much material that falls under 'reviewing what has already been covered. All 12 grades could probably be done in 5 years (10-15). There has to be an economy to support all those trades, if it doesn't have a military application there is going to be little demand for other products that are more expensive than the products already available.
 

Machjo

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Very good idea, offer every child a chance to get a education beyond high school. We have to get our kids back into the sciences and mathematics and of course not forget technical skills in things like electronics, plumbing, carpentry and other construction skills..

Bad news though: this will likely have to mean tax increases along with spending cuts in other government sectors, but at least it's an investment which will pay for itself in the end with a more qualified workforce able to earn a higher income and thus contribute more to government revenue. A beneficial cycle.

Efficiency will be key too. For example, shifting at least some taxes from income to resources could also encourage consumers to use those resources more efficiently and wisely.

Also, while you might want to increase spending on education, you might also want to ensure efficient use of those funds. A Swedish-style voucher system cold prove useful in that regard.
 

ironsides

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Feb 13, 2009
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I would think the reasons for being there are the most important facts in the whole affair. You can't do that because in both Afghanistan and Iraq you would be guilty of illegal activities with a military force. Now you support a military action against a weaker Nation while making sure ant restraints are removed. That would make a WWII Nazi gag in revulsion.

As usual you don't get it, probably never will. Are you bringing up the subject of the "Nazi" again?
 

Machjo

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At first I thought you were talking about the two invaded countries, silly me, I guess they will keep recieving those cluster munition with the bomblet painted to resemble dolls or UN food packets, real classy.

Kids don't have the attention span needed for 'quick learning' that is why the early grades have so much material that falls under 'reviewing what has already been covered. All 12 grades could probably be done in 5 years (10-15).

Increasing the number of school days is not the same as increasing the number of hours in any given school day. Yes, I agree that children have a limited attention span and that having them attend excessively long school days would be a waste of money. I'm not talking about lengthening individual school days though, but rather the number of school days. There is a difference.

Also, there is always the option of reviewing the content taught at school so as to reduce the quantity needed to be taught. For example, replacing looped cursive with joined Italic, which has been proven to be more quickly learnable. Besides, more European countries are shifting in that direction already. For example, some Britains and Belgians today would have difficulty reading standard North American looped cursive since they'd been taught joined Italic.

Replacing the American system of weights and measurements with the metric one would reduce some of the learning burden too.

The Spelling Society too proposes spelling reform. This should not sound too strange when we consider that Turkish, German, and other languages have undergone spelling reform too in recent years, as has China with character reforms so as to increase literacy. In fact in history, the Korean King Sae Jong even appointed a committee to create a new easy to learn script, now the official script of Korea and among the easiest in the world to learn (a European could learn the entire Korean script in a mater of days if not hours)!

Honestly, though, I'm hesitant about supporting spelling reform myself simply because it would also mean having to either make a break with the old books or having to republish them in the new spelling for the next generation to understand them. Again, this has been done before so it is doable. But I'd still be hesitant about supporting spelling reform, but it is something worth considering anyway. It's also worth considering that research shows that British children take an extra two years to learn to read and write compared to children in most European countries simply because of our chaotic spelling. An extra two years per child in a public school system every year likely adds up to at least millions of dollars.

One challenge with English though would be to get more than one country on board, a problem some other governments did not face in implementing such reforms.

Of course other kinds of reforms are likely possible too so as to reduce the learning burden on the student body.

There has to be an economy to support all those trades, if it doesn't have a military application there is going to be little demand for other products that are more expensive than the products already available.

But is it up to the government to dictate what jobs to create? Yes, the government is responsible to ensure all have employment, but it is not responsible for hiring everyone. It can create jobs in the private sector precisely by spending more on education. Introducing such a voucher system with increased education funding would likely lead to an increase in school construction, teacher training, jobs in the multimedia and publishing industries etc.
 

Machjo

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America is the world police and the world power at this time so they have to continue on their quest if they decide one day to give it up and if they do it too fast then the geo-political structure will fracture which will result in a major world war.

Ah, I see. So it's the US' responsibility to spend itself into oblivion for our sakes?

No, if the US retracted from its role as the world police and instead limited its international obligations to no more than is required by international laws and/or agreements, suddenly other countries would have the opportunity to carry their fair share of the burden. I'm not blaming other countries for this (obviously it simply would not make sense for another country to provide a world service the US is providing already as that would be a redundant waste of money). However, if the US does decide to retract itself to within its formally established international obligations, who would we be to tell them they can't?
 

Machjo

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Besides, the best thing the US can do to help the world right now, ironically enough, is in fact to bring its finances back in order. Because if the US economy goes down, it will affect other countries too.

Besides, many countries have been itching to take on more responsibility for years, but since the US kept taking it on on its own, they simply never had the opportunity to do so. Now of course they didn't complain much either since this also gave them a chance to just save their money while the US went into debt. But now that the US is at the brink, they'd be more than happy to take on some of the burden, I'm sure.
 

MHz

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As a measuring stick for humane behavior yeah. They used aircraft to bomb cities in Spain just to test out some new equipment in about '37, not very nice people. The US is in Iraq after all 'reasons for going to war' have all been shown to be false there is no move to correct that or pay damages to those it harmed. The US wages war against civilians because they attack civilian facilities.

All the criticism of how Saddam lived high on the hog while the people suffered is offset somewhat when the invaders moved into those same palaces and expanded it quite a bit and the people outside are even worse off. All based on false-hoods yet it goes on as if nothing had changed. Another people that are not very nice. What do you expect when the top of their SS became the founding fathers of America's mirror of the German Military Police, the CIA.
 

ironsides

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Bad news though: this will likely have to mean tax increases along with spending cuts in other government sectors, but at least it's an investment which will pay for itself in the end with a more qualified workforce able to earn a higher income and thus contribute more to government revenue. A beneficial cycle.

Efficiency will be key too. For example, shifting at least some taxes from income to resources could also encourage consumers to use those resources more efficiently and wisely.

Also, while you might want to increase spending on education, you might also want to ensure efficient use of those funds. A Swedish-style voucher system cold prove useful in that regard.

Tax increases for education are never bad, wish every state and county in the U.S. did as much for education as they do on Long Island, NY., teacher can earn six figures taxes are high also. This is one thing I do not like about the education system in the U.S. every school district controls its budget, it should be controlled on a national level to insure at least equal funding for every student.
 

Machjo

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Tax increases for education are never bad, wish every state and county in the U.S. did as much for education as they do on Long Island, NY., teacher can earn six figures taxes are high also. This is one thing I do not like about the education system in the U.S. every school district controls its budget, it should be controlled on a national level to insure at least equal funding for every student.

Introduce a national school voucher programme based on the Swedish model, for example, and it's done.
 

Machjo

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Oh, but beware: some idiots would oppose such a system because it comes from Sweden, a big bad wolf socialist state.
 

MHz

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One challenge with English though would be to get more than one country on board, a problem some other governments did not face in implementing such reforms.

Of course other kinds of reforms are likely possible too so as to reduce the learning burden on the student body.

But is it up to the government to dictate what jobs to create? Yes, the government is responsible to ensure all have employment, but it is not responsible for hiring everyone. It can create jobs in the private sector precisely by spending more on education. Introducing such a voucher system with increased education funding would likely lead to an increase in school construction, teacher training, jobs in the multimedia and publishing industries etc.
Even with the same length of day kids under 9 still need frequent breaks. If your goal is to maximize the effectiveness of the school system then another thing you might want to look into is some kids catch onto some thing at different rates. A child gifted in math could possibly do several grades in just a single year. Say he starts grade 1 at 10 yrs of age, in the next 10 months he completes 5 grades in which his score is consistently over 80%. By the time he is 13 he has math 30 completed. Now he has extra time to spend on the subjects he is having difficulty with.
HS Diploma at age 16 and the next few years could be split by being in the workforce (training in the field) and being. If expenses are are factor there is no valid reason heavy equipment operators needs degrees in philosophy but it might make coffee-break topics more interesting if everybody was well versed.
The gov has been making the decisions in the past, in the US they have a lot of money tied up in weapons. If the projects were governed by the taxpayers there might be a better life for many more people rather than a few being far above the rest.
In Alberta we could save a lot of money by using the tar-sands as is rather that spending more than we get out of it. In raw form it can be shipped far and wide and used for pavement as is if placed at a certain depth, it is fluid enough that potholes never form and ruts are removed by rewarming the material moving it around and re-flattening it.
How would the education system work to provide the skills for an operation like that? It might take huge numbers of people at the beginning but once most of the material has been moved and put into place it only needs a very few to keep it looking like new.