WalMart - Store closing over unionising, Boycott called

[crit13]

Wal-Marts nasty business practices have been well-documented, Crit.

Unless you are a huge fan of Karl Marx, you should be very concerned with the lack of competition that Wal-Mart represents.

I would have to disagree with you Rev. I'm not concerned because the markets tend to balance themselves out in the end. All of you are obsessed with how cheap their products are and how bad they treat their community yet the people in the same community line up every day to purchse Wal-Marts products. Perhaps the problem is that, local businesses have yet to figure out that they should not be trying to "directly" compete with Wal-Mart but instead cater to a niche market. They should offer a higher form of service instead of trying to compete with Wal-Mart for the absolute lowest price. I, along with most people are prepared to pay slightly higher prices for better service. An example would be a McDonalds and a fine dining restaurant. They both offer food, but at the opposite ends of the price and quality spectrum, yet they can both prosper and compete beside each other. That's because they are not directly competing against each other. Another example would be a hair studio where my wife goes to get her hair done and pays $150 whereas I spend $12 on my hair cuts.

Where would we be today if we prevented farming technology on local farms 100 years ago? We would still have 50% of the Canadian population making a living farming and would be between Afghanistan and Ethiopia on the GDP scale of the world.

Some of those nasty practices are the manufactors and supplies that sell to Wal Mart. Wal Mart forces them to sell their goods to them cheaper.

Let's get serious for a moment. Wal-Mart can't "make" suppliers sell their prices lower. They can threaten them with pulling their products off their shelves. That's part of business. If I'm in business and my current supplier is more expensive than his competition, I too would give them a choice. Lower your prices or I'll take my business elsewhere.

 

[peapod]

Personally I don't care if something cost a bit "more" if they are of better quality. You get more bang for your buck. How about on a different level. I spend my money in my neighbourhood!!! and that does not include wall mart or any other factory shopping. What do I get out of it??? Well I get to be part of my community and neighbourhood. I like ma and pa and family operations. Its personal and human and the "buck" is not foremost. People who have served and been part of the community for years.

I shop at thriftys, more expensive yes, I will never shop at superstore why? because thrifty's gives back to the community. They support all kinds of community sports, they donate to the food bank and many other charities. The one I shop in employees a few downe syndrome people stocking shelves. ( they are so cute and funny brings a smile to your face) What does super store
do...nothing except make money for weston foods. Tell me what does walmart do for the community?? Maybe they do contribute but I have never heard they do.

Its just my personal opinion, but I look at a bigger picture that is just not focused on profit!

 

[Reverend Blair]

I'm not concerned because the markets tend to balance themselves out in the end.

Actually the markets tend toward larger companies buying smaller companies or forcing them out of business leading to a lack of competition. Corporations and the politicians who live in their pockets resist all attempts to bring competition back into play.

Where would we be today if we prevented farming technology on local farms 100 years ago?

Nobody is arguing against technology here, Crit. It is actually the Wal-Marts of the world that discourage technology because technology requires capital expenditures. Instead of spending that capital places like Wal-Mart force factories to move off-shore to places where labour is cheap and environmental concerns and human rights take a back seat to profit margins. That is a move against technology, not for it.

Let's get serious for a moment. Wal-Mart can't "make" suppliers sell their prices lower. They can threaten them with pulling their products off their shelves.

When you are the largest retailer on the planet, the threats are the difference between being in business and being out of business. How is that not forcing somebody to do something?

 

[crit13]

Actually the markets tend toward larger companies buying smaller companies or forcing them out of business leading to a lack of competition. Corporations and the politicians who live in their pockets resist all attempts to bring competition back into play.

You are mistaken. Small business is the back bone of the N.American economy. Small business is not as noticeable because they don't build huge buildings for people to spot. We can't go back in time to the time of communism in the USSR and just take down companies that did "too" good of a job and shut them down.

Nobody is arguing against technology here, Crit. It is actually the Wal-Marts of the world that discourage technology because technology requires capital expenditures. Instead of spending that capital places like Wal-Mart force factories to move off-shore to places where labour is cheap and environmental concerns and human rights take a back seat to profit margins. That is a move against technology, not for it.

You've been watching too much Lou Dobbs. Dobbs may make sense to the masses who know nothing of the way economies work but he is riduculed in the business world for his short sightedness. Millions of manufacturing jobs have moved off-shore yet unemployment numbers in the US have dropped. How is this possible? It's possible because people upgrade their skills and get different if not better jobs. This brings me back to the farmer analogy. Many people resisted farming technology 100 years ago because they feared that farmers would die of poverty. In reality, farmers realized that they needed to get different jobs. There are always growing pains, but society is better off in the end.

When you are the largest retailer on the planet, the threats are the difference between being in business and being out of business. How is that not forcing somebody to do something?

Wal- Mart is not the only game in town. There are many people that get turned down by Wal-Mart and still become successful. Wal-Mart turns down over 1,000 products for every one they take on.

 

[cub1c]

RE: WalMart - Store clos

Canadians need to know that we pay people to work at Wal-Mart. Why? Because they make not enougn money to pay taxes and even some ask money from social services.
People who work at wal-mart are poor.
There is an important social cost to help those people. More poors, less money in taxes. And I don't mention what poverty creates!

We want to get rid of poverty but we help company's like Wal-Mart. It's disturbing.

I'm not saying Wal-Mart is no good at all, but there is a way to level down a little bit their profits to make everybody happy and to move on. And I'm proud that Québec are the first to do it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You are mistaken. Small business is the back bone of the N.American economy.

You are ignoring the fact that small businesses do not hold political sway the way large corporations do and the trend towards larger and larger corporations swallowing up smaller businesses. We see it every day.

You've been watching too much Lou Dobbs.

I've watched Lou Dobbs once. Some of us don't live in a media wasteland like the United States though.

Millions of manufacturing jobs have moved off-shore yet unemployment numbers in the US have dropped.

So have the average wages and the health and safety regulations. You now have poorer people working in worse conditions with fewer benefits. Trying to characterize that as progress is ridiculous.

It's possible because people upgrade their skills and get different if not better jobs.

White collar jobs are moving off-shore now.

Many people resisted farming technology 100 years ago because they feared that farmers would die of poverty. In reality, farmers realized that they needed to get different jobs.

Actually the technology was embraced and promoted, not least by farmers. Farms got larger during the pricing crisis of the 1920s and the dust-bowl of the 1930s. Small farmers became slightly larger.

Factory farming began to become extremely prevalent during the 1980s, largely because of the subsidy regime that came in under the Reagan administration. Those subsidies go to factory farmers who use them to keep prices low and push small farmers out of business. The only benefit there was to the average person were the Farm Aid concerts.

The subsidies cause problems all around the world and serve to punish farmers in Canada and Mexico because of NAFTA. There are also environmental concerns because of the mono-cultures and lack of genetic variety, as well the GMO crops pushed by corporate gangsters like Monsanto.

At the Campesino Forums in Cancun a while back American family farmers were standing arm in arm with farmers from all over the planet in opposition to the US government's policies. Robert Zoellick, who promised Bush's corporate hack backers that he would force a deal that benefitted the US before he boarded the plane to Mexico, got told to piss off by most of the world.

Wal- Mart is not the only game in town.

Wal-Mart and other big-box retailers that use it as a model try very hard to become the only game in town. They undercut prices, bust unions, challenge labour laws, force municipalities to spend on expensive infrastructure, and give little or nothing back to the community.

 

[crit13]

You are ignoring the fact that small businesses do not hold political sway the way large corporations do and the trend towards larger and larger corporations swallowing up smaller businesses. We see it every day.

They hold the ultimate sway. Almost ALL of the growth in N.America comes from small business. You're so fixated on Wal-Mart yet fail to recognise the big corporations that go bankrupt.

I've watched Lou Dobbs once. Some of us don't live in a media wasteland like the United States though.

Yeah. We've got the CBC to save us. (sarcasm)

So have the average wages and the health and safety regulations. You now have poorer people working in worse conditions with fewer benefits. Trying to characterize that as progress is ridiculous.

Please provide proof. GDP and the standard of living has been steadaly rising every single year.

White collar jobs are moving off-shore now.

Those laid off find other jobs or start their own businesses. Your "theory" does not hold up to the numbers. Unemployment is going down, not up. Explain.

Actually the technology was embraced and promoted, not least by farmers. Farms got larger during the pricing crisis of the 1920s and the dust-bowl of the 1930s. Small farmers became slightly larger.

I used the farmers as an analogy. I'm talking about broader developments such as the move from farming to manufacturing and from manufacturing to office jobs.

Wal-Mart and other big-box retailers that use it as a model try very hard to become the only game in town. They undercut prices, bust unions, challenge labour laws, force municipalities to spend on expensive infrastructure, and give little or nothing back to the community.

Do you even realize that when you get hired by a company, you enter into a contract. When someone gets hired by Wal-Mart they know full well what their salary is going to be before they accept the position. It's not as if Wal-Mart offers them $100K salaries and then pays them minimum wage. If you owned a business, how much would you pay a 16 year old stock boy? $40K, $50K?

 

[Reverend Blair]

They hold the ultimate sway. Almost ALL of the growth in N.America comes from small business.

What fantasyland did you come out of? The sway comes from political donations and supporting lobby groups. Corporations do that more effectively than anybody, that's why they are still whining like babies about the restrictions in Manitoba that took away their donor base.

You're so fixated on Wal-Mart yet fail to recognise the big corporations that go bankrupt.

I don't fail to notice that at all. I also notice the scandal and corruption involved and the ties to right-wing political groups.

Yeah. We've got the CBC to save us.

Among some independent sources.

Please provide proof. GDP and the standard of living has been steadaly rising every single year.

The wage gap has been growing. The real average wage (what you can by with what you earn) has been shrinking.

Those laid off find other jobs or start their own businesses. Your "theory" does not hold up to the numbers. Unemployment is going down, not up. Explain.

First of all many just leave the job market. That's a euphemism for, "The government quits counting them because it's embarrassing." Second of all, many of the other jobs they find are lower paying and many who start their own businesses are actually being forced into contract work with no benefits, lower pay, and the requirement that they caryy business overhead themselves.

I used the farmers as an analogy. I'm talking about broader developments such as the move from farming to manufacturing and from manufacturing to office jobs.

You presented some fallacies about farming and got your ass handed to you. You should wear it as a hat.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Peapod brought up the best argument yet...support your community...that is the only way to assure it's continuing growth...I've read stories of Walmart's swooping into communities, eliminating the competition, and then closing shop a year later, forcing people to travel outside of their communities to purchase their goods...and because Walmart will not lease their property to other retailers, the land that the empty Walmart sits on is wasted space...

Do you even realize that when you get hired by a company, you enter into a contract. When someone gets hired by Wal-Mart they know full well what their salary is going to be before they accept the position. It's not as if Wal-Mart offers them $100K salaries and then pays them minimum wage. If you owned a business, how much would you pay a 16 year old stock boy? $40K, $50K?

...and when Walmart has eliminated competition within the community, the quickly become the most likely employer of unskilled workers...because they are so diversified in their offerings, they are able to kill off quite a few local businesses in a very short time...

you mentioned people lining up to buy their goods at Walmart...that is true, but I would hazard a guess that all of those people are socially unaware of the damage that they are doing to the livelyhoods of the local shopkeeps in their own communities...

 

[crit13]

What fantasyland did you come out of? The sway comes from political donations and supporting lobby groups. Corporations do that more effectively than anybody, that's why they are still whining like babies about the restrictions in Manitoba that took away their donor base.

I'm talking about the sway of competition. Something that left wing zealots know nothing about. If I work out of my home, my overhead is close to zero. No rent, no commuting etc. If I decide to sell a good or provide a service to the public, I can undercut any conglomerate. You don't notice these people because most of them stay local. I didn't get my deck built by home depot. I paid a local guy to build it for me and it cost a lot less than Home Depot was going to charge me.

The wage gap has been growing. The real average wage (what you can by with what you earn) has been shrinking.

You are correct if you are talking about Canada but you are wrong if you're talking about the US. The reason why Canada is lagging is because of our huge tax burden forced upon us from all levels of government.

First of all many just leave the job market. That's a euphemism for, "The government quits counting them because it's embarrassing." Second of all, many of the other jobs they find are lower paying and many who start their own businesses are actually being forced into contract work with no benefits, lower pay, and the requirement that they caryy business overhead themselves.

You're argument would hold water if uneployment was out of control and in double digits. The US unemployment rates are near historic lows. You can put spins on this issue all you want, but numbers don't lie.

You presented some fallacies about farming and got your ass handed to you. You should wear it as a hat.

Getting a little touchy Rev? The only thing that looks like an ass around here is you. :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

Is Crit short for hypocrite? Just wondering...

I'm talking about the sway of competition. Something that left wing zealots know nothing about.

Bullshit

If I work out of my home, my overhead is close to zero. No rent, no commuting etc.

I do work out of my home. Again, bullshit.

I didn't get my deck built by home depot. I paid a local guy to build it for me and it cost a lot less than Home Depot was going to charge me.

I used to build decks for a living. We called Home Depot "Home Despot" because they underpriced their work.

Again, assuming you you are talking about apples and apples, Bullshit.

You are correct if you are talking about Canada but you are wrong if you're talking about the US.

It's been growing in the US as well, with an ever-smaller proportion of the people earning and ever-larger proportion of the pie. Both Canada and the United States have a problem with a disappearing middle class because of it.

The reason why Canada is lagging is because of our huge tax burden forced upon us from all levels of government.

We aren't lagging.

The US unemployment rates are near historic lows. You can put spins on this issue all you want, but numbers don't lie.

George Bush is the first president to preside over a net loss in jobs since the Depression. Meanwhile the population of the US is growing. You are correct...the numbers don't lie.

Getting a little touchy Rev? The only thing that looks like an ass around here is you.

Not touchy at all, just amused as hell at how quickly you backed away from your position when it turned out that you had no grasp of the situation or the history.

 

[crit13]

Bullshit

Well thought out rebuttal. Did you use both your brain cells for that one?

I do work out of my home. Again, bullshit.

Another brilliant answer.

I used to build decks for a living. We called Home Depot "Home Despot" because they underpriced their work.

Again, assuming you you are talking about apples and apples, Bullshit.

Then I guess the guy who built my deck decided to take a loss on this project out of the goodness of his heart. He must have been a bleeding heart leftie such as yourself. I'm thankful.

We aren't lagging.

Since you know mothing about economics I will refrian from answering your non-answer.

George Bush is the first president to preside over a net loss in jobs since the Depression. Meanwhile the population of the US is growing. You are correct...the numbers don't lie.

Wow!! All these lost jobs AND a growing population and the unemployment rate in the US is among the lowest in the world. They must be envious of Canada's 7.5% unemployment rate or even France's 10%. :roll:

Not touchy at all, just amused as hell at how quickly you backed away from your position when it turned out that you had no grasp of the situation or the history.

I think your getting dellusional in your old age. How do you figure I'm backing away. I'm refutting all your joke of comments and you come back with "Bullshit"

I think it may be nappy time for you. Your just upset because you haven't had your juice.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: WalMart - Store clos

You can drop the crap, hypocrit. You made several bullshit assertions and I called you one them.

 

[crit13]

You're replies are getting to be very dissapointing.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: WalMart - Store clos

Your crap isn't worth putting any effort into.

 

[zenfisher]

( Rev)First of all many just leave the job market. That's a euphemism for, "The government quits counting them because it's embarrassing." Second of all, many of the other jobs they find are lower paying and many who start their own businesses are actually being forced into contract work with no benefits, lower pay, and the requirement that they caryy business overhead themselves.

You're argument would hold water if uneployment was out of control and in double digits. The US unemployment rates are near historic lows. You can put spins on this issue all you want, but numbers don't lie.

Care at taking a shot at explaining the increase in panhandlers on the streets of Seattle, Crit. Over let's say, the last five years.

In six months your turfed from the roles of Unemployment in the US. Those numbers are not included in the stats for individuals on unemployment. Once you are off unemployment, whether you find a job or not, you are not counted as being on unemployment. To truly gauge the numbers you have to look at how many enter onto welfare after Unemployment runs out.

To add to the problem, you now have people that can only afford to shop for the lowest price available. Why do you think Walmart has a tendancy to locate itself in low to mid income areas? They not only know their market...they know when they have their market trapped. Why do you think they are willing to locate into small towns? They know that small businesses can't compete with the buying power a large multi conglomerate has. Each time they gobble up a little more of the pie...until there is no one to compete with them.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I don't know if this has been posted already... but it's an excellent site, so enjoy...

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Well done, Jo... :thumbup:

 

[peapod]

http://video.lisarein.com/dailyshow/jan2005/jan202005/01-20-05-daily-walmart.mov