US-"Patriot" Act...Shroud of Secrecy

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0830-07.htm


this "patriot" act...bears watching. Quite unnerving. ...as it appears to be another stranglehold....(ever tightening) on a population.--- a population who's culture has made fear the underlying condition for accepting change....that it ordinarily would balk at.

another big "win" for the "terrorist" groups. Interesting dynamics now. US population is being controlled by fear from two highly influential parties. Their own gov't .....(that keeps repeating the security/safety propaganda.....infering the need for fear and more drastic security measures) and whatever terrorists there are "out there". Both of these parties "need" each other to foster their own agenda. One has to wonder how it got so out of control...... and then one only has to look at the current US gov't and realize the pathology there. (all about power/control.... :twisted:

 

[jjw1965]

this "patriot" act...bears watching. Quite unnerving. ...as it appears to be another stranglehold....(ever tightening) on a population.--- a population who's culture has made fear the underlying condition for accepting change....that it ordinarily would balk at.

Agreed, the main problem is this stanglehold is spreading, the tactics of using fear and terrorist are the same through out history, almost identical to the same tactics used by Hitler. :evil:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

No, the main problem is that they've passed this rights raping piece of legislation, and then they started calling those nations that didn't have similarly, or more restrictive legislations, hotbeds of terrorism...

It's all part of the culture of fear that the US has foisted upon the world...

 

[Ocean Breeze]

It's all part of the culture of fear that the US has foisted upon the world...

this factors in for sure. But it just might backlash against the US /Gov/cabal..... big time. People -in fear -can easily become irratic...and unpredictable.

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[no1important]

Patriot Act loses courtroom test

A teaser:

TAMPA, Fla. — In a stinging defeat for federal prosecutors, a former Florida professor accused of helping lead a terrorist group that has carried out suicide bombings against Israel was acquitted on nearly half the charges against him Tuesday, and the jury deadlocked on the rest.

The case against Sami Al-Arian, 47, had been seen as one of the biggest courtroom tests yet of the Patriot Act's expanded search-and-surveillance powers. [/teaser]

A victory for freedom in America. Apparently as much as "W" wants to enforce his bs patriot act, the courts have said otherwise with this verdict. Hell people are suppose to have Rights in America, it is not Nazi Germany or some other 3rd world dictatorship.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

If you look back upon news events and then coincide that with when the Patriot Act was voted on, you could not help but notice that each time a vote took place, it was not covered in the news because other news events were breaking that particular day.

If the Patriot Act was for real, .... the very first thing the U.S. should of done was completely seal it's southern borders. Obviously, they did not. Imagine that?

The U.S. managed the news. Ashcroft and the clowns came out with all those terrorist reports and arrests as the Patriot Act was first being introduced so as to have it appear that it was necessary. But actually; they are simply preparing for martial law to be imposed.

All the court cases are just being done to make precedents. When they begin to make mass arrests the justice of the peace will simply follow precedent. It is important to get all the legalese done now. The last 2 supreme court justices in the states supported the Patriot Act. The discussion about these justices centers around whether they will undo abortion laws ... but that is a charade. Nobody is gonna undo abortion laws because they know there would be riots because more then half of the population supports the present law. However; when they are talking abortion, nobody is talking Patriot Act provisions.

There are now 20 terrorism-related crimes eligible for capital punishment, and the House measure would add 41 more. These would make it easier for prosecutors to win a death sentence in cases where a defendant had no intent to kill - for example, if a defendant gave financial support to an umbrella organization without realizing that some of its adherents might eventually commit violence.

the House voted to triple the number of terrorism-related crimes carrying the death penalty. The House also voted to allow judges to reduce the size of juries that decide on executions, and even to permit prosecutors to try repeatedly for a death sentence when a hung jury fails to vote for death.

99 percent of all the arrests for what was termed "terrorism" were settled or had charges dropped down to immigration violations.

In the article which No1 Important mentioned .... it shows that the FBI was wiretapping these guys for 5 years prior their arrests. Imagine that, eh?

For those of us who lived through the 60's and where we witnessed the largest threat against the Ruling Class in our history .... we well remember how they used the newly created "drug" scare to introduce laws similar to these terrorism laws.

The Ruling Class were running scared in the 60's and 70's .... just like they are today.

All this anti-hate legal stuff being introduced was to protect the economic terrorists from Wall Street, which is generally thought to be Jewish owned and the Jewish folks are shaking in their boots as the economic collapse hits home.

Just as in Europe, during the depression, people turned against the Jews because they were seen as being "responsible" for the "greed" prior the depression. European's were taking their family treasures to pawn shops and were quite angry to find that it was Jewish folks who owned the pawnshops. Resentment was huge and that is why it was easy for Hitler and other European leaders to blame the Jews too. It may not of been right, but that was the way the cookie crumbled.

For years and years we critized Russia for having the KGB encouraging Russian citizens to rat on each other and today all the Western democracies are doing the same thing. They have us all looking at our neighbours with suspicion.

What really puts me over the edge is when the cops ask the community to rat on someone who committed a crime .... but when the cops are under suspicion, they form a blue-line and refuse to co-operate with any investigation and simply hide behind their union representative.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the Patriot Act was just a sham and was opportuned by all Western democracies. All Western governments know that the U.S. economy is quickly crumbling. Any dummy knows that it is impossible to finance a defict when your population is getting older.

In the U.S., 70 million people will turn 65 and be lining up for their old age security. It ain't gonna be there. All the promises the governments and corporations made are gonna be broken.

In Canada, for instance, the government knew the population was getting older and would draw more upon the healthcare system, but Martin/Harris and the clowns cut healthcare spending. They were not stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing. They pulled off exactly what Bush is pulling off with Iraq ... "It's broke, and now we gotta fix it" .... but it was them who broke it in the first place. It was "share the blame time" as opposed to sharing the costs to maintain a system when the population was aging. Commonsense dictated an increase in healthcare spending in the 90's but they deliberately caused this crisis so that we would learn to expect less.

Ford Motors just announced today that they plan to layoff another 30 thousand workers in North America. (And the list goes on and on.)

The Western democracies have a zillion futurists on their government payrolls. The governments knew of China's growth and the huge demand this would have upon available natural resources and fossil fuels. We are watching the U.S. collapse as a dominant world financial power (not military power) and just as Britain fell from grace immediately after WWII, the U.S. is going down too.

The biggest threat to the U.S. economy in the "immediate" future is that Iran is gonna begin selling oil in the new "Gulf" or "Arab" monetary note. (Saddam threatened to sell his oil for Euro's and it was a threat to the U.S.)

If you have been watching the financial news over the past 5 years, all it speaks to is what governments are gonna take away from everyone. The only reason Canada is doin' okay is because we are getting top dollar for the electricity out of Quebec and the oil/natural gas out of Alberta. The rest of the economy is crumbling too.

This is China's moment in the sun. India being a close second.

Where in the past the U.S. would buy or finance the smartest brains in the world to immigrate to the U.S., today China and India are gonna have the largest and smartest universities on the planet.

Make no mistake .... there is no way in hell that the U.S. economy can continue with the deficit spending. The Ruling Class are quite aware of this and that is why you see all the large tax breaks and thievery taking place, as the elite salt away whatever money they can to protect their family dyansties.

Calm

 

[no1important]

RE: US-"Patriot" Act...Sh

Excellent post Paranoid Dot Calm. It said it all.

I guess it is similar to the "Communist" paranoia in the 50's? Neighbours ratting on neighbours, people being arrested and detained for no reason.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Buzz Hargrove knows the writing is on the wall. His leadership of the union is in doubt as the car manufacturing companies begin to take away all that the employees fought hard for.

For every job lost at GM, it was estimated that 3 jobs were lost in the community itself.

Martin and the Clowns must of promised Hargrove a senate seat after his union leadership is challenged and he loses his position.

For the life of me, I can't understand why the whole country does not vote NDP. They are the only party who is on "our" side. Imagine refusing to vote for a party because they might spend too much money on the citizens needs as opposed to sending it overseas as foreign aid and the like?

Imagine being too afraid to vote for our own good and prosperity? Imagine being too frightened that a government might give too much to the voter?

Imagine voting for Martin and the Clowns who choose to help Haitians and Bosina and Afghanistan before they help their own citizens?

We are surely a bunch of retarded people. Martin must be putting Prozac in our water.

When the economy slips even further, we will be wishing for a political party who will put the people first. All those folks who complained about "Rae-Days" found out that Harris just offered "No-Days".

Best we vote NDP today, because we will all be crying in our beer as the pensions we so much relied on have disappeared.

Calm

 

[no1important]

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pape

A teaser:

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.” [end teaser]

Bizarre. It just proves he behaves like a dictator and a madman who craves absolute power.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of pape

A teaser:

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

I’ve talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.” [end teaser]

Bizarre. It just proves he behaves like a dictator and a madman who craves absolute power.

gotta hand it to the americans ..........they have impecable taste in selecting their leader.....NOT. His behavior is worse than a toddler going through the terrible twos where they have to have their way......regardless. That "no " stage....(uncooperative)

absolute power .......and a control freak to boot. He gives a flying frich about the US constitution, any LAWS that govern mankind, or the population of the US. It is ALL ABOUT HIM.....and his overinflated cock on the walk ego.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

I don't think he is a dictator in the real sense.

He spoke to God. He truly feels that he is following God's directions. He cannot admit a mistake because then it would be questioning his God.

I once knew a person who had very bad eyesight and was praying everyday for a cure. I asked why not just go out and get some glasses and the person explained that if they did, it would be like doubting God's promise to heal. Bush cannot change course because it would be like doubting his God.

However; obviously he was not speaking to God. It was a dilusion. For those people who are familiar with the bible .... it tells everyone straight up ... "beware of false prophecy or false Gods".

The bible says that if a person makes a mistake and fails to recognize a dilusion and thinks it to be God instead ..... that the delusion will be reversed and that it will be shown to be the mockery that it is.

This is only the beginning. The mockery is gonna be huge. It scares me sometimes when I think about just how bad Bush is gonna get his "mockery".

Everyday, a piece of the truth will be shown to him and he has another 3 years to go!

Calm

 

[jjw1965]

“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

We need to put this man on trial for treason. :evil:

 

[jimmoyer]

I guess Bush ought to go a little further and extend his term to 2030 ?

Bush's hubris on this matter will only go so far. Watch the process. Story after story in history shows how leaders fall when they press too far.

He'll get away with a lot of mistakes and injustices for now, but the opposition to him will grow and grow as it understands and reacts to the damage done.


This ebb and flow, action and reaction, thesis and antithesis is the crux of Hegel's Dialetic : Thesis will cause an anti-thesis and then a synthesis, which in turn becomes the new thesis.

The Body politic of mankind is like an organic blood vessel with white corpuscles attacking something foreign.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

He spoke to God. He truly feels that he is following God's directions. He cannot admit a mistake because then it would be questioning his God.

I once knew a person who had very bad eyesight and was praying everyday for a cure. I asked why not just go out and get some glasses and the person explained that if they did, it would be like doubting God's promise to heal. Bush cannot change course because it would be like doubting his God.

absolutely. ........

............so the BIG QUESTION is this........How come the bloke.....insane, delusional, destructive, maniacal???, paranoid , fanatical...........is still in the oval office??? What does he have to do before americans or their built in safety checks for such wayward leaders go into action???

I read an article (many actually) about how Germany did not really realize what was happening until it was too late....(when tidbits of the truth were being released. Even then , many continued to live in DENIAL........as they could not accept that they had been "had " by a lying psychopath/or demented sicko.

When the US President acts this way about the Constitution........how many more red alerts does the US population need? Mind you , the media is so controlled now......that hardly any of this ever reaches the airwaves. They just get saturated with "safe " news......like plane run offs....or runaway brides for hrs ad nauseum.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I guess Bush ought to go a little further and extend his term to 2030 ?

gee, why stop there?? It has been "rumored" that he wants to be prez for life. Why not just take a match to the constitution and wrtie a new one. Maybe one along the lines he/they have done for Iraq. Designing new leaderships/ political systems and constitutions seems to be a hobby with him. No one is standing in his way. Each time he gets away with this behavior the more emboldened he becomes........and more ruthless too. ..

(Behavior theory 101)

 

[no1important]

RE: US-"Patriot" Act...Sh

Well if "God" was real and "W" talked to "God" would "God" be happy with "W's" environmental and humanatarian record?

 

[no1important]

RE: US-"Patriot" Act...Sh

Agreement puts Patriot Act in line for vote -- or filibuster
Both Republicans, Dems say changes don't go far enough

A teaser:

Washington -- Republican negotiators accepted a White House-brokered deal Thursday that clears the way for Congress to vote next week on whether to renew the USA Patriot Act's most controversial provisions for four years, in slightly modified forms.

GOP leaders called the development a major breakthrough in a long and contentious debate over whether and how to renew the law, which was passed in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and parts of which are set to expire Dec. 31. Since it took effect four years ago, the act has made it easier for federal agents to secretly tap phones, obtain library and bank records, and search the offices or homes of terror suspects.

But the agreement faces an uncertain future. No Democratic negotiators in the House or Senate embraced the bill that emerged from the conference committee, and a bipartisan group of senators complained that the proposed revisions do too little to protect the civil liberties of innocent Americans. Proponents had hoped for bipartisan support, but said they believe the bill can survive threatened efforts in the Senate to block it. Some warned, however, that the vote could be close. [/end teaser]

Too bad they would not get rid of it outright.

 

[jimmoyer]

My record of enviromental abuse and yours would piss off God too, as we do what we must to commute to our jobs, (paying the terrorists for each gallon we pump) turn on electricity to play our DVDs (fired by coal driven turbines), discard our trash (tons beyond belief) for convenient pickup the next day....

Not one Canadian leader even has a passive solar, environmentally designed home.

You oughta google the environmentally interesting things about Bush's green home on his ranch in Crawford Texas.

That being said, even many conservative commentators such as Bill O'Reilly of Fox noted that Bush seems to have no passion, no inner zeal to inspire new and better ways to handle the environment.

But the preceding President by executive order in the last year of his 2 four-year terms lowered the acceptable level of arsonic in the water without the responsibility to make such a standard real and lasting. The level was unrealistic to enforce. UNREALIST to monitor and to regulate industry on it. But boy did the headlines scream loudly, never castigating the previous President for the obvious ambush set up.

And then Bush's Dad, unwittingly signed the Clean Air Act which meant a certain compound be put in your gas. This compound had the maniacal tendency to leak into the water table destroying any chance for that water to be "potable", drinkable. And thus this UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE of the Clean Air Act in ruining the water table led to a nationwide digging up of every gas tank in every gas station in America to be re-sealed or replaced.

And then this humanitarian abuses ?

Watch the hypocrisy of this world sit so righteous.

 

[no1important]

RE: US-"Patriot" Act...Sh

And then this humanitarian abuses ?

Ask the poor people (mainly black) of Louisiana, ask his guests at Gimo, 100,000 innocent dead civilians in Iraq and how many other secret prisons.