Thought a Crime in BC

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
A judge sentenced a man for 2 years in prison for a string of offences and what he might do in the future todayin BC.I don't condone what this guy did. But ask your self where is this going?Thought crimes? Judges telling you what you might do next and giving you more time .Its just not right what happend to innocent till proven guilty?
 

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
I read it in our local paper this morning.It happened in Courtney. The guy sounds pretty twisted and should probably be put away.Judges should not be sentencing people to longer terms for what they might do.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
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Winnipeg
We have a process for that...somebody can be labelled a dangerous offender. The decision isn't an arbitrary one made by a single judge though.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
oh, killed cats. Well I think he should be sentenced for just thinking about that,,,,,but I'm biased.

Maybe this judge is working on the theory that someone starts with cats and moves up to humans.

Which means that if the sicko is given 2 yrs he goes to federal prison where he will get help. Under 2 yrs is provincial and no help.

Since crimes have a cheat sheet for jail time length, I believe this judge is being progressive by ensuring help is given to this guy.
 

Huron

Nominee Member
Dec 30, 2004
51
0
6
Story here

This may be a good example of the challenges our society faces in balancing the rights of the individual against the rights of both other individuals and society in general.

The individual involved in the recent RCMP shooting is another example.

Our legal traditions are based on consequences in respect of a crime committed, not the possibility of a crime being committed.

This works fine most of the time however, not, in the eyes of society, all of the time.

So, you end up with the 'he was a ticking time bomb' and 'dead separated wife' stories which quite understandably get everyone up in arms...'why wasn't something done before', etc.

After the fact of course, everyone 'knew' something would eventually happen.

Thing is, how many situations occur around the country every day where someone 'is sure something will happen', but it never does, and as a result we never hear about it? How many times does the thing 'everyone knew would happen' actually happen, compared to the time it doesn't?

Kind of like the old 'something told me not to get on the plane' story. We hear these stories when a plane goes down. We don't hear stories about the people who had these 'premonitions' about flights that subsequently went off without a hitch.

There are probably a number of people roaming freely in Canada most of us might, from the perspective of the risk they pose to society, believe should probably not be in the community. However, if these people haven't committed any crime, or at least any crime for which they haven't already paid the consequences mandated by society, or aren't suffering from a mental condition which makes them incapable of functioning in society, either due to a reasonably certainty of their actions causing harm to themselves or others, what do you do with them?

Do you keep some types of offender segregated from society for ever on the chance that some of them may reoffend, e.g. pedophiles get one strike and they're out. If so, is this fair to those among this group that if allowed to excercise their free will do not reoffend.

Do you keep people who terrify a community segregated from the community. If so, what if the terror is invoked simply because the person is 'different'? Who decides what level of 'terror' is required and and whether the 'terror' is in fact reasonable, because we don't have mechanisms to deal with this now.

I saw an old Law and Order episode yesterday that in its contrived way touched on this issue. Basically, you had this mentally disturbed homeless guy who was reasonably okay so long as he wasn't using drugs. When he was in society, he would of course use drugs and 'terrorize' the neighbourhood until he eventually crossed the line and was hospitalized, being that he wasn't competent enought to stand trial on a criminal charge. After he was off drugs, he returned to a reasonably lucid state in which he was no threat to himself or others, was released and inevitably returned to the same neighbourhood and the cycle started again. The show concerned a resident who eventually took the law into his own hands.

The obvious answer was to keep the guy institutionalized however, again he wasn't a threat so long as he didn't use drugs (crack, to be specific). This guy couldn't stay away from it, so the cycle kept repeating itself. But, what about others who did? Should society segregate everyone who has exhibited undesirable behaviour to cover off the poossibility of some amongst the group reoffending. Wouldn't this make the whole concept of free will moot?

If not, at what point, if any, do we say 'no more chances' and, what then do we do with these people? At what point are we willing to circumscribe the rights of the individual because the risk this individual poses to others is just seen by society as being great enough to warrant the same?

It's a pretty fine, and dangerous, line to tread. With 'dangerous offenders' type legislation, we're already on it. Thing is, once you start segregating people on the basis of the risk they pose, rather than a crime actually committed, e.g., a crime you would have received 10 years for now gets you life without parole because you've committed the mandated number of previous serious crimes to warrant the same, where does it end? Who decides what the measure is for an individual who poses a risk, and what constitutes a 'risk', to society is great enough to warrant life long segregation from that society?

And if you're going down this road, are our current notions of jails, etc., appropriate? If you want to segregate someone away from the general community solely for the perceived risk they pose, does it then follow that a penetentiary or similar is appropriate?

Frankly, I'd have no problem at all with all pedophiles, sociopaths, etc. being segregated away in little communities far away from the general population based on the fact that there is currently no cure or rehabilitation that works on either. I'm not saying this is right, just that I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But, this isn't a simple issue and there are risks inherent in any decision society makes in respect of the matter.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
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"Our legal traditions are based on consequences in respect of a crime committed, not the possibility of a crime being committed. "


Thank God for that....
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
oh, killed cats. Well I think he should be sentenced for just thinking about that,,,,,but I'm biased.

I had this conversation with the guy across the street a few years ago. He threatened to kill my cats and now lives in mortal fear that something bad might happen to one of them because he understands the consequences now. 8)

Which means that if the sicko is given 2 yrs he goes to federal prison where he will get help. Under 2 yrs is provincial and no help.

The fact that there is little or no help for two years less a day is a real problem. Federal pens are magnitudes uglier than most provincial jails, yet the help is in the federal pens. Our penal system is supposed to be based on rehabilitation. The reality is that you have to cause a lot of damage before any help is available at all.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Our penal system is supposed to be based on rehabilitation"

I was thinking about this the other day....if the above is the case the Ministry of Education should be running ( or have allot to do with ) the provincial prison system.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
I think Mental health would be more apprapo then Ministry of Education.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Vanni Fucci said:
Perhaps Jay meant the Ministry of Re-education?


Assuming they were educated in the first place. :wink:
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
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Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
There was a guy from Vancouver the other day who got in tropuble for setting up traps to catch neighbours cats who were wrecking his garden.

I have nothing against cats but dogs have to be fenced in , licensed and controlled, so why not cats?
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
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I remember that guy, No1. Turns out that it's illegal to use such traps (leg hold traps)

I have no idea why people don't keep their cats indoors. Mine aren't allowed outside. We have Coyotes, Racoons and humans (ick! lol) in our neighbourhood.
I don't blame people for getting upset with other peoples cats in their yards. I personally don't. i love cats. I have no problem with finding "presents" in my garden.

But I know others do and I understand why they get upset. And it would sure save the headache if people kept their pets inside. Course this would require them to be all around responsible for their pets and that just doens't happen. I know, I volunteer at the cat shelter. People are sometimes the most inhuman creatures!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
I have nothing against cats but dogs have to be fenced in , licensed and controlled, so why not cats?

When's the last time you got attacked by a cat? When's the last time a pack of feral cats ate your livestock?

Cats are...cats. You don't pick them, they pick you. In an urban area I agree that cats should be kept inside. It's dangerous out there. They get sick. I don't happen to live in an area like that though. I live in cat heaven...no large predators close by, but not a lot of traffic either.

Part of the reason we moved here is becausee our cats could wander around and eat bird and mice and the occasional rabbit. Part of the reason I have cats is to keep the vermin away from my plants. Birds eat the seeds and rabbits eat the plants.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Anyone who harms animals, well you get a pretty good idea of what they can do to humans to. I say a good licking is what they need, I will bring my fathers belt. :twisted:
 

Huron

Nominee Member
Dec 30, 2004
51
0
6
So, is it reasonable to anticipate no one will get around to discussing the actual issue, what with the cats, dogs and all?

:D
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
When's the last time you got attacked by a cat?

I get "attacked" every other saturday. Although I enjoy it. Shelter kitties can be more unpredictable then the typical house cat. But they don't mean it. lol