There's No Oil in Mass Graves

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
This just showed up in my mailbox from Human Rights Watch:

Iraq: U.S.-Led Forces Failed to Secure Key Evidence
Official Documents Looted, Mass Graves Left Unprotected

(Amman, November 4, 2004) — U.S.-led coalition forces in Iraq failed
during last year’s invasion to safeguard official documents and the
remains of victims in mass graves, Human Rights Watch said in a report
released today. As a result, crucial evidence for the upcoming trials of
Saddam Hussein and other former Iraqi officials has likely been lost or
seriously tainted.

The 41-page report, “Iraq: The State of the Evidence,” details what
happened to some of the key archival and forensic evidence that the U.S.-
led coalition and, more recently, the Iraqi interim government failed to
secure.

In April 2003, former Iraqi officials left behind volumes of official papers
documenting criminal policies and practices. In the past year and a half,
more than 250 mass graves have been identified, some of which contain
the remains of thousands of victims of Saddam Hussein’s rule.

“Given what’s at stake here, the extent of this negligence is alarming,”
said Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East and North
Africa Division of Human Rights Watch. “U.S. and Iraqi authorities were
aware that these documents and remains would be crucial to the
prosecution of Saddam Hussein and other former officials, but they did
little to safeguard them.”

Human Rights Watch said that in the weeks and months following the
invasion of Iraq, U.S.-led coalition forces failed to prevent people from
freely looting thousands of official documents, or to keep relatives of
“disappeared” persons from digging up remains found in some mass
gravesites. Coalition forces subsequently failed to put in place the
professional expertise and assistance necessary to ensure proper
classification and exhumation procedures. As a result, it is very likely that
key evidentiary materials have been lost or tainted.

In the case of mass graves, these failures have also frustrated the ability of
families to know the fate of thousands of missing relatives who
“disappeared” during Saddam Hussein’s rule.

Human Rights Watch urged Iraq’s interim government, with international
assistance, to set up a joint Iraqi and international Commission for Missing
Persons to establish effective procedures for protecting mass graves and
conducting exhumations, and a similar body to oversee the handling of
documents of the former government.

“This material needs urgent attention. The evidence will be critical to any
upcoming trial proceedings,” Whitson said. “And it will also be crucial for
Iraqis as they attempt to construct an accurate record of the atrocities they
suffered under Ba`th Party rule.”

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Just exactly what the hell was Bush doing? I understand that all he cared about was the oil, but is he so arrogant that he didn't even bother to try to make his plethora of excuses seem feasible? I guess he is.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Oh but he made sure there was Infarstructure in place for the oil. He is the one who should be put on trial along with sadam. There will never be peace without justice. And excuse me but bush is a f***ing bastard.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
I guess we should have known it would just be a matter of time before they figured out how to use Saddam's mass graves as a black mark against Bush. :?
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
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The Netherlands
www.google.com
RE: There

U.S. and Iraqi authorities were aware that these documents and remains would be crucial to the prosecution of Saddam Hussein and other former officials, but they did little to safeguard them.” - Sarah Leah Witson. Bush said he went to war to 1) protect the US, and 2) to free Iraq from Saddam Hussein. Bush wants to bring Hussein to trial right? This article shows that some serious mistakes have been made ...

Oh and I still love your avatar :)
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: There

Rick van Opbergen said:
This article shows that some serious mistakes have been made ...

Yup that's true and it is unfortunate. But still, what's wrong with Iraqi's? They're not all quadriplegic or bereft of reason or initiative, are they? I've seen estimates of the number in mass graves at the hands of Saddam ranging from 300,000 to 1,000,000, depending who you believe. Even if you go with the lowest, assume that each of the 300,000 had 8 family members, then assume that only 25% of those are young, healthy and able-bodied, that leaves you with a regiment of 600,000 people who could take turns protecting the evidence sites.

Whether you support or oppose the action in Iraq doesn't matter anymore, it's done, it's a reality, and the best has to be made of it from this point forward. We can't go back and change it.

The reality is that we can't just sit back and blame Bush for everything and expect America to fix it. There have been a lot of mistakes made in Iraq, and a lot of them you can blame on Americans, but only Iraqi's can fix them and make their country better.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: There

Rick van Opbergen said:
You think the Iraqi government is at such a level that they can handle this on their own?

So now it's the Iraqi governments fault!!

Just kidding.

What I think is that the Iraqi's need to mobilize as a people. They can't expect everything to be done by the Americans or the Provisional gov't. Both of those entities I'm sure would be thrilled to give assistance to a citizens group volunteering to get things done in Iraq. With the level of unemployment there, one commodity that must be in abundance is time.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: There

Rick van Opbergen said:
Well I don't think there are a lot of people here who haven't stolen their avatar from some sort of site ... do you know what "Gij zult niet doden" means?

Yes it's like my poppy in honour of Theo Van Goegh.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Re: RE: There

Rick van Opbergen said:
Did you know him? :)

Only in the sense in which I know Francis Ford Coppola or Steven Spielberg. :D

Theo has become an Icon of free speech this past week. I deeply cherish free speech, and for as long as I can remember since I was just a kid my favourite quote was the one about "I may disagree with what you're saying but will defend to the death your right to say it". Voltaire, I think.

What happened to Theo was the exact antithesis of that philosophy. Submit to me or I will kill you. Not good.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
The Iraqi's are trying to do things on their own. One body bag at a time.

Iraqi's are treating American soldiers just like Americans treat their Mexican immigrants. Americans have invaded iraq and stolen all the jobs. The American immigrants who invaded Iraq are despised by the Iraqi's and Americans should leave Iraq and only return when they get the proper documents.

Can you imagine the bitterness that Americans would have against immigrants who illegally entered their country and then proceeded to rape and plunder Americans?

Americans have such short memories. It was only 50 years ago that a black man got the right to ride a damn bus. And .... they are now out trying to change the world! What a joke!

They should of got their ass out of there as soon as the Abu Ghraib prison photos turned up .... if they had any pride at all.

Americans have outsourced their heart and imported a mockery of the truth.

Calm
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Paranoid Dot Calm said:
Americans should leave Iraq and only return when they get the proper documents.

Yeah, that'll happen.

In the meantime what options do Iraqi's have? Sit and rot or join the insurgents and fill more body bags? The killing would have stopped over a year ago if Al Sadr would have just put his name in the ring for election instead of unleashing his army. Sorry, you can blame the Americans for a lot of things, but they haven't been the ones responsible for stuffing body bags for quite some time now.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Paranoid Dot Calm said:
Can you imagine the bitterness that Americans would have against immigrants who illegally entered their country and then proceeded to rape and plunder Americans?

Can you imagine if those same bitter Americans started bombing and shooting people in shopping malls, then blamed the Mexicans for all the civilians killed, saying they're just defending their country.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
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36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Hi! Just the Facts

Oh, Yeh .... I forgot! When the Americans arrived, everyone should of just bent over backwards to help them win their goals.

When Americans want Canada's fresh water, I guess we should just all toss our hats and turbans into the political ring as they invade?

And, the nerve to now blame the chaos on Iraqi's .... is just so American.

Ray-Gun did the same in Central America. And every time a Guatemala Guy stood up to speak out against the American invasion, they too were called Communist insurgents.

I guess what America is really saying is:

We were wrong but we are prepared to kill a hundred thousand just to show you how sincere we were.

Calm
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Paranoid Dot Calm said:
Oh, Yeh .... I forgot! When the Americans arrived, everyone should of just bent over backwards to help them win their goals.

Well no, a lot of brave Iraqi's put up a brave fight and died. I can understand people fighting to defend their country, but we're way past that now. As I said previously, you can't un-do the war. The Americans are there, lets take it from here.

When Americans want Canada's fresh water, I guess we should just all toss our hats and turbans into the political ring as they invade?

And once they're here, after we inevitably fail to stop them militarily, then what? Use car bombs to blow up old ladies crossing the street?

And, the nerve to now blame the chaos on Iraqi's .... is just so American.

Well, not neccessarily Iraqi's...jihadi's are streaming in from all over as well, itching to get a shot at and/or be killed by an American. Are Americans setting off car bombs almost every day? Are Americans lobbing mortars into crowded street markets? Are Americans massacring busloads of Police Academy graduates? Maybe you're getting more informed news reports than I am, but I haven't heard anything about Americans being behind all that mayhem.