The world will end in 2060, according to Sir Isaac Newton

May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
This clock thing has me really excited....I never really believed the theory..or not so much believe as to be honest...understand it...which is like sooo...Galileo/pope ish

Note to forum....i do not sound like a valley girl in real life ..although i would love to start dressing up as one in here...D'Avril is so yesterday's forum.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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I have heard wikidpedia is got a lot of mistakes...
Yes, I've heard that too, though I've never found any, but I've read the entry on the Michelson-Morley experiment, and it's a pretty decent not very technical discussion of it. It's probably the most famous failed experiment in the history of physics, 'failed' because it didn't produce the results expected from theory at the time and strongly suggested something was badly wrong with physicist's understanding of things. Which turned out to be true, and Einstein's Special Relativity theory is now seen as the explanation of the failure. What we need now is a similarly definitive test of string theory, but nobody's been able to think of one yet.

And after y'all are done with the original reading list I gave a few pages back, you can pick up Lee Smolin's The Trouble With Physics and read about how wrong they all are...
 

Deafening Silence

New Member
May 2, 2007
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In a house.
Let's all try to understand some of the shades of meaning of the word theory, and try to be polite to each other, shall we?

Theory has two broad senses in common use, which I think of as the weak sense and the strong sense. In the weak sense, it's used to mean a belief, conjecture, or speculation. In the strong sense it means a coherent, consistent body of data, ideas, information, and analyses that describe and explain a range of phenomena. Evolution, for instance, is a theory in the strong sense, and people who dismiss it as only a theory are confusing that meaning, sometimes deliberately I think, with the weak sense and committing a common logical error called the fallacy of equivocation.

There are two further divisions in the strong sense: there are scientific theories and non-scientific theories, and the distinction is based on empiricism, which in this context means based on observation and experiment: scientific theories are empirical, non-scientific theories are not. Picture it this way:

Theory

1. Weak Sense
a belief, conjecture, or speculation

2. Strong Sense
a coherent, consistent body of data, ideas, information, and analyses that describe and explain a range of phenomena.
(a) Non-Scientific
(i) Empirical, but not falsifiable, predictive, or testable, like psychoanalysis and, so far, string theory.
(ii) Non-Empirical, also not falsifiable, predictive, or testable, like religious dogma​
(b) Scientific: empirical, falsifiable, predictive, and testable
Might be a bit of a stretch to call string theory empirical, there are no observations or experiments that directly suggest it, there are only negatives, like the observed inconsistencies between quantum theory and relativity that indicate some deeper explanation is necessary. The essential point remains, however: string theory is not yet a scientific theory.

Excellent explanation. I concur. I think it is just a bit oversimplified, but I don't expect you to write a book here, either. But, you have made a distinction between theories. This is a correct way to create context for understanding the place of string theory. To suggest that the word theory not be used at all is simply silly.
 

Dexter Sinister

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To suggest that the word theory not be used at all is simply silly.
No, I don't think so. Pangloss made a legitimate observation, and I made the same point when I wrote, " Strictly speaking, Pangloss has it right. It's not really correct to call anything 'string theory,' though everybody does." String theory fits only the second definition on the list gc's search provided a few pages back, but that's quite plainly a definition of the word "hypothesis," not "theory," and not a very good one either, because it uses the word "theory" in the definition where it really doesn't belong. And speaking of gc's list, #6 is not a true statement.

What I find silly is the way you kept hammering at Pangloss, with a bit of attitude that really wasn't helpful or necessary, trying to force him to admit he's wrong when he's not. You didn't contribute much substance to the conversation.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Not only does Newton predict the end of the world in 2060 but, strangely, do others....


1) 2060 will be the end of the world, according to some interpretations of the Book of Revelation. The number, written at the end of the Book, is said to represent Nero by deciphering it in his code.

2) Hindu legend names this year as the "time of destruction."

3) Steven Colbert says the world will end and a giant "space apple" will hit the earth
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Predictions for this century:

2020s

Nasa lands another astronaut on the Moon.
The world's population reaches 8 billion.
voyager 2 stops transmitting back to Earth.
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2030s

The processing capacity of the human brain is surpassed by computers.
Blended wing body aircraft might carry passengers.
The rise of artificial super intelligence made possible for commercial use, by the hardware cost of human-equivalent computerized brains dropping below 1 million dollars.
The EU will land humans on Mars.
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2040s

The emergence of the techological singularity in 2045 - or, in simplified English, smarter than human computers or robots (artificial intelligence).
The Arctic Ocean will be free of ice.
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2050s

World population will reach 9 billion
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2060s (if the world hasn't ended)

In 2062, Halley's Comet returns. It was last seen in 1986.
In 2063 Singapore will celebrate 100 years of independence from Britain.
In 2066 England will celebrate 1000 years of its monarchy.
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2074

The Green Wall of China will be completed.
 

Deafening Silence

New Member
May 2, 2007
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In a house.
No, I don't think so. Pangloss made a legitimate observation, and I made the same point when I wrote, " Strictly speaking, Pangloss has it right. It's not really correct to call anything 'string theory,' though everybody does." String theory fits only the second definition on the list gc's search provided a few pages back, but that's quite plainly a definition of the word "hypothesis," not "theory," and not a very good one either, because it uses the word "theory" in the definition where it really doesn't belong. And speaking of gc's list, #6 is not a true statement.

What I find silly is the way you kept hammering at Pangloss, with a bit of attitude that really wasn't helpful or necessary, trying to force him to admit he's wrong when he's not. You didn't contribute much substance to the conversation.

Very interesting that you know my motivations without asking. I never "hammer at" anyone to admit they are wrong, simply ask them to support their positions. If they refuse to do so, then they should admit they are wrong. I never objected to Pangloss having an opinion. I simply think he ought to state it as such or provide support. Why is that bothering you?

Now, back to your contention that string theory is not a theory. You have left one element out of your reasoning. The mathematics that string theory is derived from is all based on theories which do meet the criteria for being a strong theory. So, what you are saying is that string theory, a mathematical construct derived from cross referencing theories regarding three forces, can not be a theory itself. I say that the fact that the mathematics is not from "out of the blue", and comes from accepted "strong" theories, that string theory qualifies based on the merits of the theories it is based upon. The academic community seems to feel the same way.

I googled the internet. I tried to find anyone making the same argument as you. There was one mathematician, Wolfe, not even a tenured professor, who wrote such a book. It was panned by the academic community.

So, I ask you the same question I asked Pangloss. Why is your interpretation correct and the interpretation of the top academics in the field wrong? Why can't they see what you see?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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I never "hammer at" anyone to admit they are wrong, simply ask them to support their positions.
BS. Go back and read your posts. You posted multiple times--at least four by my count--demanding he admit that he's wrong, and accused him of cowardice, conceit, and arrogance along the way. You can disagree without calling people names, you know. In my view that removes you from the list of people who deserve to be taken seriously or deserves to have questions answered. I find you rude and ill-mannered, and I think deafening silence from you would be preferable.