The Good Nazi Of Nanking

[Locutus]

When Japanese troops flooded the city of Nanking, embarking on an orgy of rape, murder, and wholesale destruction, a local Nazi official risked his life to save thousands of civilians. His name: John Rabe.

In the dark days leading up to WWII, the Japanese army embarked on a sustained campaign of violence against the Chinese residents of Nanking. For four months, troops ran amok. Women were raped with broken glass. Men were herded up and bayonetted to death, set on fire, or buried alive. People were hacked to death in the streets. It was an atrocity unparalleled in modern warfare—and only one man stood up to it.


At the time the city fell, the local branch of the Nazi party was run by John Rabe, a German businessman. Shocked by the actions of the Japanese, he worked with local missionaries to establish an “international zone”—an area free from the violence infecting the city. Up to 250,000 civilians were protected there, with Rabe turning his personal property into a refuge for another 650. But his bravest acts came at night. Patrolling the streets armed only with his party uniform and swastika, Rabe managed to face down dozens of armed Japanese single-handedly, saving countless lives.


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The Good Nazi Of Nanking - KnowledgeNuts

 

[WLDB]

I saw "The City of Life and Death" about a year ago. This fellow was featured in it. It was one of the most disturbing films Ive ever seen. I knew what was coming as I had read about the massacre but seeing a well done re-enactment was a bit difficult. It was relatively tame compared to some war movies though.

I dont think he was an actual Nazi by conviction though. At the time being a member of the Nazi party was required to get any good job. If he was an actual Nazi he wasnt by the time this was over. Apparently he appealed to Hitler several times to ask him to basically tell the Japanese to take it easy. Naturally he did nothing.

 

[BaalsTears]

The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang is a pretty powerful read. Rabe was depicted as a self-less hero in Chang's book.

 

[Goober]

The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang is a pretty powerful read. Rabe was depicted as a self-less hero in Chang's book.

And Japan has yet to offer an unconditional apology for war crimes. Even their school books are tainted with a positive attitude towards their war.

 

[relic]

So ? Western school books are full of BS about our involvement in the wars.

 

[Goober]

So ? Western school books are full of BS about our involvement in the wars.

To a point - Yes.

 

[Jonny_C]

So ? Western school books are full of BS about our involvement in the wars.

Such as ignoring wholesale war crimes?

Arguing equivalency is a useless exercise when things aren't equivalent.

 

[Goober]

Such as ignoring wholesale war crimes?

Arguing equivalency is a useless exercise when things aren't equivalent.

He is not doing that. 50 % wrong, 10 % wrong. Still wrong.
Many countries are still coming to grips with their role in the mass murder of Jews.

 

[Jonny_C]

He is not doing that. 50 % wrong, 10 % wrong. Still wrong.
Many countries are still coming to grips with their role in the mass murder of Jews.

What role did the USA, or Great Britain, or Canada have in the mass murder of Jews?

 

[Blackleaf]

Some say that WWII didn't start in Europe in 1939. They say it started in China with Japan's conquests of huge swathes of that vast country earlier in the decade.

 

[Goober]

What role did the USA, or Great Britain, or Canada have in the mass murder of Jews?

Read None is to many.
During the War the Allies became aware of what the camps were for. They refused to bomb the camps. The so called reasoning was a high causality rate.

 

[Jonny_C]

Read None is to many.
During the War the Allies became aware of what the camps were for. They refused to bomb the camps. The so called reasoning was a high causality rate.

You would have to note that the Allies were in a full-scale war to defeat Nazi Germany and put an end to ALL of its evil practices.

So how is that an evil (even of inaction as applied specifically to the camps) that compares in any way to the willful and bloody extermination of people?

That is all besides the horrific contemplation of literally bombing out of existence camps full of thousands of innocent civilians on the suspicion that they were death camps. There was no laser-guided precision bombing back in those days.

 

[WLDB]

Some say that WWII didn't start in Europe in 1939. They say it started in China with Japan's conquests of huge swathes of that vast country earlier in the decade.

The conflict started then but given the size of it it'd be hard to call it a world war. At that time it could have still gone either way with Japan and the allies. I usually think of the war in Europe and the one in the Pacific as different wars which just happened to be going on at the same time.

 

[Goober]

You would have to note that the Allies were in a full-scale war to defeat Nazi Germany and put an end to ALL of its evil practices.

So how is that an evil (even of inaction as applied specifically to the camps) that compares in any way to the willful and bloody extermination of people?

That is all besides the horrific contemplation of literally bombing out of existence camps full of thousands of innocent civilians on the suspicion that they were death camps. There was no laser-guided precision bombing back in those days.

It was not suspicion. It was fact. Well known to the allies.
While extermination would not have stopped the numbers killed would be lower.

Rebuilding a camp would take some time.
The Nazi's use of mass firing squads for extermination of Jews as occurred throughout Eastern Europe was found to have a debilitating effect on the troops.
The mobile killing vans, monoxide poisoning was slow, inefficient and used a scarce resource.

 

[WLDB]

So how is that an evil (even of inaction as applied specifically to the camps) that compares in any way to the willful and bloody extermination of people?

That is all besides the horrific contemplation of literally bombing out of existence camps full of thousands of innocent civilians on the suspicion that they were death camps. There was no laser-guided precision bombing back in those days.

We (the allies) turned Jewish refugees away before the war started. Most wound up going back to Germany and their deaths. Blatant racism leading to murder. Sure, its not the same as holding the gun yourself but tis hard to justify that action when it was well known how they were being treated in Germany even before the war.

 

[Jonny_C]

Still nowhere near any kind of equivalency in culpability with regimes that made genocide a matter of policy.

 

[Goober]

Still nowhere near any kind of equivalency in culpability with regimes that made genocide a matter of policy.

Who stated it was equivalent?
Wrong is wrong no matter how you want to cut it.

 

[Jonny_C]

Who stated it was equivalent?
Wrong is wrong no matter how you want to cut it.

You've lost the thread of the discussion. Maybe too wrapped up in what you wanted to say as compared to identifying the main point?

 

[damngrumpy]

In his later years my father straightened me out on a few things. He was in
North Africa, Sicily, and on the boot at Artona. He told me there isn't an army
in the history of warfare that hasn't done some very bad things when it came
to other soldiers or even civilians and anyone who doesn't understand that is
living in a dreamworld.
Later he was in France, Holland, Belgium and Germany everywhere there was
bad things happening. In some cases they stood by while the civilians beat the
hell out of collaborators fair enough. The problem is they destroyed food and
clothing and furniture that was needed by others.
There was no such thing as a good Nazi but some were better than others and
as someone else said, some were not Nazis at all, they were worse they were
opportunists.
War is a terrible thing and the outcome is never really resolved its debated by
future generations but never resolved. As dad said when a single soldier fell
on either side both sides lost, humanity lost, and the world lost, for there are
no winners in war.

 

[gerryh]

As dad said when a single soldier fell
on either side both sides lost, humanity lost, and the world lost, for there are
no winners in war.

and yet, we continue to wage them.