The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is the worst document

[tamarin]

Cobalt, blah...blah...blah...
The country prior to the Charter worked. Crime rates were low and family unity high. Communities were safe and citizens were actively involved. Children respected their elders because the Charter and its push for child rights still hadn't the chance to make them snot-nosed. There was a sense that MP's represented their ridings because the decisions of the House of Commons carried weight. This was in the era before the Charter handed chief legislative approval and authority to the Supreme Court.
And on and on it goes. The Charter was a divisive decision for Canada. It remains so.

 

[Niflmir]

Ah, Cobalt_Kid, don't let Tamarin get your goat. Yes, he prefers the epoch where gays were imprisoned, 56 year olds having sex with 14 year olds were sanctioned by law, the police enforced our sodomy laws and you could be caned in school if you repeatedly pronounced houses by merely apending an 's' sound to house. Yes, he is aware that those things existed in the past and he likes that epoch despite those things, curiosity compels we to seek out the why. Tamarin is classical conservative: he thinks things were better in the past. If you can get past his belligerent quirkiness he can recall some pretty important facts about the past, but nothing you say will make him like the current epoch better than what you see as the rose tinted vision of the past.

Hopefully, that seemed respectable and appropriate to all parties involved.

 

[tamarin]

Well, I do like "belligerent quirkiness'!
Old Canada worked. It wasn't beholden to special interests or the Supreme Court. People felt involved. And valued.
Today they feel impotent. Big Brother, Charter in hand, is in charge.
And the middle class as has been exhaustingly pointed out in the dailies over the last year no longer can afford to participate in the judicial system. Charter delays and convolutions are repeatedly named as the major source of system blockage and expense.
Gee, ain't it all grand.

 

[karrie]

Today they feel impotent.

Unless of course they're minorities, women, or children, in which case they feel empowered. The past may have been rosy for middle class males, but not so much for many many many other members of society.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Well, I do like "belligerent quirkiness'!
Old Canada worked. It wasn't beholden to special interests or the Supreme Court. People felt involved. And valued.
Today they feel impotent. Big Brother, Charter in hand, is in charge.
And the middle class as has been exhaustingly pointed out in the dailies over the last year no longer can afford to participate in the judicial system. Charter delays and convolutions are repeatedly named as the major source of system blockage and expense.
Gee, ain't it all grand.

You've been living in a fantasy land, special interests have always played a part in our politics. The sell-out of our defence industry by the conservative PM Diefenbaker sent 35,000 highly trained aerospace workers south of the border to find work in the late 1950s. Like Harper now he was more concerned with pleasing the US. We eventually bought US fighters and SAMs to replace the amazing Arrow fighter.

It's Harper that feels impotent because of the Charter not us, he can't change our rights at will like he's trying to change everything else. Like I've pointed out, we have more freedom and privacy than they do in Britain or the US for that matter. The Patriot Act and NSA domestic survellance have turned America into a police state. Happy to inform you you, Canada is about as good as it gets when it comes to freedom and privacy.

Provide some information on the middle class being unable to participate in the judicial system, this sounds like pure fabrication. Also provide some evidence for the serious charges you're making against the document that guarentees our freedoms. How exactly are Charter delays and convolution(I don't even know what means) blocking the system. What part of the system, the PMO? That's the whole point of the Charter, to prevent the state from infringing on the rights of the citizens of Canada.

 

[TenPenny]

Old Canada worked. It wasn't beholden to special interests

You have a lovely tint to those rose coloured glasses.

 

[tamarin]

"Provide some information on the middle class being unable to participate in the judicial system, this sounds like pure fabrication."

Cobalt, you don't read the dailies and you're participating on a discussion forum?
I'll get you a link shortly.

Karrie, you seem to think the Charter freed us of a dark age. Seems to me children were safer pre-Charter, and involved in schools where standards counted. Girls had the chance to grow up free of the pressures of an omnipresent cultural vacuum, championed by feminists and the gurus of empowerment, a vacuum that has led to so many broken lives as female role models are now practically non-existent.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Cobalt, you're a Trudeau apologist, a title that will still get you run out of town in wide stretches of the country. I am ashamed to share citizenship with you.

That's BS, you're a self-hating Canadian and you want to be an American like your hero Harper. Trudeau stood up for Canadian interests the way Harper never has or will or any other modern conservative PM for that matter. Embrace your inner Canadian self, don't be afraid it won't bite you...LOL

The Charter only applies to government laws and actions (including the laws and actions of federal, provincial, and municipal governments and public school boards), and sometimes to the common law, not to private activity.

The Charter doesn't limit the freedoms of Canadians, it limits the governments ability to enact laws that affect our freedoms. From what I've seen of our current conservative government over the last year and a half that's a very good thing.

I'm appreciating TRUDEAU more and more every day.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Cobalt, you don't read the dailies and you're participating on a discussion forum?
I'll get you a link shortly.

I'm just not privy to the voices inside your head...:lol:

 

[tamarin]

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/245548

Wake up! This is one of many, many articles you should have read before spouting off using a nozzle on an empty head.

 

[karrie]

Karrie, you seem to think the Charter freed us of a dark age. Seems to me children were safer pre-Charter, and involved in schools where standards counted. Girls had the chance to grow up free of the pressures of an omnipresent cultural vacuum, championed by feminists and the gurus of empowerment, a vacuum that has led to so many broken lives as female role models are now practically non-existent.

girls did not have a chance to grow up free of cultural pressures. You just prefered the pressures that were put on them at the time, to the perceived lack of pressures now. You may have preferred it, but women sure didn't!

 

[Lithp]

lol. just because you quote me doesn't make you correct. Again I ask what post are you respnding to?
Again.Where did I say the police didn't make mistakes?
Again. What does the Charter have to do with Maher Arar. It didn't apply in his case. Oh I get it, we should somehow extend our Charter and Constitutiion to foreign countries like a warm fuzzy blanket. We should hold the Americans and the Syrians accountable. They should have to pay $10 mil too. Lets tell them that Our Charter was violated and that have to pay up.
Sheesh....Dude, all of his drama unfolded outside of Canada. So again I ask what does the Charter have to do with Arar.
The government admitted it was wrong, OJ was declared not guilty, plea bargains meant the guy was only guilty of the things he admitted to, Michael Jackson paid a family millions to drop the case so he must be not guilty too.
Canada apologized but the Americans still won't let him in. Do you know all the facts? Um....nope. HOw do you know he's not a terrorist? Because the government said so? Hmm.. I guess every election promise made by the government comes true too eh?
Still it doesn't matter. The Charter had nothing to do with the Arar Case. The Canadian Government didnt arrest him and send him against his will to the Middle east.
If I say get rid of the Charter it doesn't mean get rid of all rights, contrary to what you seem to think. All these rights were there in the past and mechanisms were in place to correct injustices and ancient thinking.
Just because you quote incorrectly in a failing attempt to justify your opinion and then use insults to back it up doesn't make you right.
Sorry to burst your bubble dude but the more you yell the righter you are doesn't work.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Cobalt, you're a Trudeau apologist, a title that will still get you run out of town in wide stretches of the country. I am ashamed to share citizenship with you.

That's another great thing about the Charter, I have the right to support the political party and candidates of my choice, probably the first thing fascists like you would take away without a Charter.

I don't recognize you as a fellow citizen.

 

[tamarin]

Cobalt, did you read the link or not? You're a yacker. Dime a dozen.

 

[tamarin]

Karrie, girls are hardly free today. I look around and see a lost generation of young women. Granted, some have made tremendous strides in education, the one gem in all this sorry mess. But others are quickly falling victim to soaring involvement in early smoking, drinking, delinquency and promiscuity. They need role models to benefit fully from empowerment. Where are they?

 

[karrie]

Karrie, girls are hardly free today. I look around and see a lost generation of young women. Granted, some have made tremendous strides in education, the one gem in all this sorry mess. But others are quickly falling victim to soaring involvement in early smoking, drinking, delinquency and promiscuity. They need role models to benefit fully from empowerment. Where are they?

Define smoking drinking delinquency and promiscuity. When my father was growing up, if you were a teenage boy, and you weren't smoking, drinking, screwing around, and getting into a bit of trouble, they figured there was something off with you.

So girls now aren't acting what YOU would consider 'girlish'. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. It just means they are living a life of freedom to act how they choose. The neat thing is, they're also leading a life of higher equality in the ramifications of their choices. Those mistakes are theirs to make.

As for the role models, there are just as many good role models out there for girls, they just aren't as highly publicized as male role models are. Women's sports heroes aren't getting the same media coverage as male athletes, for example.

 

[TenPenny]

"Provide some information on the middle class being unable to participate in the judicial system, this sounds like pure fabrication."

Cobalt, you don't read the dailies and you're participating on a discussion forum?
I'll get you a link shortly.

Karrie, you seem to think the Charter freed us of a dark age. Seems to me children were safer pre-Charter, and involved in schools where standards counted. Girls had the chance to grow up free of the pressures of an omnipresent cultural vacuum, championed by feminists and the gurus of empowerment, a vacuum that has led to so many broken lives as female role models are now practically non-existent.

Well, my daughter can play hockey and soccer, and that didn't happen back in your rosy days. Maybe, though, you're one of those threatened by the fact that she can whup your ass on the ice, and maybe that's why you want to turn back the clock.

Are you threatened by equality, or what is your problem?

 

[tamarin]

"So girls now aren't acting what YOU would consider 'girlish'. That doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. It just means they are living a life of freedom to act how they choose..."

What? Recent well publicized studies reveal middle school girls now smoke and drink at rates above their male peers. A huge anomaly. And you equate this with "freedom." I don't think health and youth officials would be impressed.

 

[tamarin]

Tenpenny, yes and girls can also join various scouting divisions though the boys, interestingly, can't return the favour.
Girls have made some advances in traditional male sport. Hopefully, they'll play in the NHL soon. And without any special dispositions or favours. Now that would be fair in your books - correct?

 

[karrie]

What? Recent well publicized studies reveal middle school girls now smoke and drink at rates above their male peers. A huge anomaly. And you equate this with "freedom." I don't think health and youth officials would be impressed.

And that's fine. We have health and youth officials to help deal with it. We have parents and society to help deal with it. We don't strip them of their rights because we don't like the path they took. It's not a basis for demoting them tamarin.