Stephen Harper on side with drugs and terrorism

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
This happened under deregulation in the US and I also believe the UK.

Utilities were gauranteed a specific rate of return under the regulatory environment, which meant they would sell their generating capacity at a specified rate. However, deregulation was supposed to lower prices for electricity. With the generating capacity of the regulated utility having been built under one regulatory regime and not being economical under another, regulators introduced this to compensate investors who had invested their capital under the promise that they would get a specific return. When the rules of the game changed and the return was no longer gauranteed, the government had to compensate investors. Moving assets (and debt) off the books of the utility - i.e. making them "stranded" - was a way of identifying the specific assets that had been impaired, which then could be used to calculate how much investors would be compensated.

I think its fine and a fair way of dealing with people who invested expecting one thing but received another, though, as I said, I don't know how the Hydro situation was kosher or not.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
No it's not just you TomG

The Harris government and of course many governments working at the problem of "re-election" will fudge the numbers to demonstrate to the sheep that "See how smart we are...see how well we've invested taxpayer money...Aren't we wonderful and based on our demonstrated expertise with your money surely you see our re-election as opportunity to continued prosperity...right!?"

"Oh you see all those years of padding the wallets of the defense industry (all my dads friends and my friends) was sound business planning and investment in the future of Canada!"

"Oh you see all those years of underfunding Canada's service men and women was sound fiscal restraint, Canada enjoys such a close bond with our American friends that we need not spend anything more than a symbolic minimum to defend ourselves!"

"Creative Economics" allows governments to hide malfeseance and corruption and in the case of electric power in Canada, confer responsibility for a willfully deceptive government policy and the debt that proceeds from that policy onto the backs of all the sheep for years to come. (All Ontario sheep anyway)

When it's convenient to shave the dog to look like a "business" abracadabra....government is business..

When it's convenient to shave the dog to look like a "Social institution, a Social Safety Net...something government feels compelled by its duty its responsibility and its philosophy of altruism, SHaZam....it's a humanitarian response to a percieved necessity.....

Baa Baa Baa

Does anyone think that the existence of an Auditor Generals Office is merely a creative employment strategy for a swanky office and a staff of thick-headed morons?

We KNOW that if you give a human being a bit of responsibility and the keys to the pantry....theft and misuse are bound to occur.

Canadians...and in fact all of North America has enjoyed the cheapest gasoline in the world for generations. Petroleum companies have been making fortunes for generations. Instead of establishing that a gallon of gasoline cost "X" to produce, and research, exploration, infrastructure development and contingency planning cost "X + Y" and for the invested individuals and companies a reasonable profit of "J" would provide good return and stimulate competition... But NO.

You tell the sheep that gasoline/electricity is abundant and cheap and skim the living bejeezus out of them for years and when reality strikes...you artificially meddle with the numbers and Voila...stranded debt and a sense of entitlement.

Baa Baa Baa
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
No it's not just you TomG
Canadians...and in fact all of North America has enjoyed the cheapest gasoline in the world for generations. Petroleum companies have been making fortunes for generations. Instead of establishing that a gallon of gasoline cost "X" to produce, and research, exploration, infrastructure development and contingency planning cost "X + Y" and for the invested individuals and companies a reasonable profit of "J" would provide good return and stimulate competition... But NO.

You tell the sheep that gasoline/electricity is abundant and cheap and skim the living bejeezus out of them for years and when reality strikes...you artificially meddle with the numbers and Voila...stranded debt and a sense of entitlement.

Baa Baa Baa

They had enjoyed cheap gas for generations because it was abundant and OPEC didn't exist. When OPEC began its embargo in the 1970s, the cost of gas soared. However, it didn't in most OPEC countries, however, because they subsidized the price. Today, in many countries, it is kept below even the cost of extraction, which of course, is an environmental disaster.

As I keep saying, if you're an environmentalist, you want $200 oil. There is nothing, not regulation, not recycling programs, not anything that would be better for the environment than sky-high oil prices.

As for profitability and concentration in the oil industry

The ... American oil industry [is] intensely competitive, innovative and subject to more scrutiny and tougher antitrust enforcement than any other segment of the economy. And it's adept at meeting the diverse and dynamic needs of American consumers.

We've spent years at the Federal Trade Commission enforcing the antitrust laws in this industry and even more time studying oil markets. We have come to this conclusion: When legislators don't completely understand the industry, even their best efforts can harm consumers.

Consider one driver of harmful regulation, the belief that a handful of large oil companies control the industry. In fact, the industry is not highly concentrated. The four largest firms collectively hold a smaller share than the top four firms in many other industries, and these firms face a lot of competition. Valero is the largest U.S. refiner and non-oil companies like Wal-Mart, Sheetz and WaWa sell a significant portion of retail gasoline. Most gas stations are owned and operated independently.

The oil industry's long-term earnings are also typically in line with other industries. Recently, the oil industry has earned above-average profits -- 9.5 cents for each dollar in sales in 2006, compared to 8.2 cents for manufacturers. But U.S. oil took a hit in the 1990s as earnings fell well below those of other industries.

And as economic learning and antitrust enforcement have evolved, we've seen that big and profitable are not necessarily bad. In recent decades, the real oil industry has greatly improved its efficiency through a series of mergers, which have improved resource management, increased innovation and technology diffusion, and moved assets to firms with the ability and expertise to expand capacity. Extensive FTC studies have confirmed that the industry is highly competitive, that concentration and mergers have not increased prices, and that market forces -- most notably the price of crude oil and supply shocks -- cause price increases.

The petroleum industry receives closer antitrust scrutiny than any other industry, and the FTC applies tougher standards to oil mergers than to mergers elsewhere. To protect consumers, the FTC has required record divestitures before mergers could proceed, while still preserving the mergers' efficiencies. Put simply, there is no basis for abandoning, as some propose, the antitrust agencies' fact-intensive approach in favor of even tougher standards for oil mergers.

Some argue that oil companies have conspired to restrain their capacity. Although numerous obstacles have prevented the construction of new refineries for decades, capacity at existing refineries has expanded greatly. U.S. refiners have spent tens of billions of dollars in recent decades increasing refining capacity and also improving output and satisfying environmental requirements. It's strong U.S. and worldwide demand that has pushed prices up. ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118463467039168409.html?mod=todays_us_opinion
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Perhaps it's arguable, I don't think so.

If you're prepared to condition the sheep to conspicuous consumption who's responsibility is that?

I think it belongs to everyone.

Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, the economy of North America we've been told time and time again critically relies on the auto industry..... Nothing coercive about that, just a fact of life that if you're a thoroughly modern sheep you lust after something that can demonstrate to all the other sheep that you have status power and wealth....

You need gasoline to power the "Dream"

You don't invest in public transport unless you have to....urban centers have some public transit but the issue of transporting people and goods across the nation has been left to people who have one thing in mind. Personal profit.

Henry Ford wasn't performing an act of altruism or greater virtue when he took the mechanized assembly line to the heights of today, it was a carefully planned effort to sell cars to every man woman and child. And what would power these wonderful conveniences?

Standard Oil took up the challenge..... Never mind that you build-in the "demand" for gasoline, when you're convinced you can supply gasoline at so "reasonable" a price that no one could balk at buying that steel juggernaut that gets eight-miles-to-the-gallon....

Whether it's gasoline or cars, electricity or pet rocks, the mind-set that equates consumption with prosperity is doomed.

It's doomed because it ignores too much.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Stephen Harper's vanity, his wannabe an American attitude embraces the concept of willing ignorance as surely as the "freedom is consumption and consuption is prosperity" chant that has seen mankind killing each other by the millions in the name of greed.

Cutting a deal with Columbia and ignoring the violence terrorism and organized crime that is an ever-present condition in that nation is one expression of this willing and willful ignorance.

When it's convenient to talk about Afghanistan in terms of its production of poppies and undercurrent of criminality and thus an "obvious" target for military intervention, that's Harpers song.... When it's doing business with a corrupt government in South America, that's the song Harper has learned at the knee of his American compatriots.

As an opposition member Stephen Harper made all the right noises at all the right times..."Those damn thieving Liberals..."

And now he's made Canada complicit in the criminality and drug empires of Columbia.....

It would have been really nice if Tammy Fae Bakker had taken Stephen Harper as companion with her on her last journey.

Unfortunately the sheep will have to read and wonder....digest...ruminate and consider....perhaps a very long time....just like Mike Harris and other crooks and liars in government steal from all the sheep and let the future pick up the tab for their popularity, Harper will cut a deal with the Columbian government then cry foul when at some point down the road it's "discovered" that that government was complicit in crime and terorism....

Tammy Fae Bakker.......Stephen Harper.....same mould.
 

TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
135
10
18
I think its fine and a fair way of dealing with people who invested expecting one thing but received another, though, as I said, I don't know how the Hydro situation was kosher or not.

Fairness may be an elusive idea, and often seems a somewhat nutty one. For example, I don’t necessarily think that investor expectations are realistic and fair and that they should be compensated for what ever they choose to believe abut the world. Our free market/free democracy system allows huge integrated industries to develop that are not required to pay all costs related to the production, distribution, retailing, consumption and disposal of their products. External costs are heavily subsidized by public expenditures and also by accepting environmental degradation. Another version of ‘fair’ might be that all externalized costs should be paid by the industry before surpluses are distributed to investors. To do otherwise is subsidizing investment returns and hardly seems fair to everybody.

In my economic life, I might be able to find an operative idea of ‘fair’ that I can grasp within a set of relationships that generally conforms to an ideal competitive model. Of course, the competitive model is doubtfully applicable to natural monopolies such as utilities but perhaps ideas like fairness aren’t applicable either. I guess I have trouble finding fairness in a world of power, wealth, influence and information disparities. That world is one where most decisions seem bounded by negotiated settlements among very unequal parties. So, I try to stay away the larger world. That is a world where it seems common to confuse the world as we experience it with the reduced abstract logical deductive models about the world that we learn in school.

So, to my end of ignoring the larger world, in about an hour I will take my solo canoe off the rack and portage it and gear to the electric lake (once a river now fettered with a hydro dam) that I live near. After a short paddle on the lake I will turn up a still wild river and push through rapides and around chutes for about 25 kilometers for a week and stay near a grande chute.

Given the vast area flooded by the hydro dam, I will paddle past disappeared lakes where kids now in their 70’s used to play on a white sand beach. I will paddle over the tops drowned rapids where rivermen built log cribs for log drives of long ago. When I get to the top of the first original portage I know that there used to be a tree that had 30-some boots nailed to it. That’s the number of rivermen who drowned on just one rapides on just one minor river in the process of supplying the sticks to build houses that didn’t last as long as it took the trees here to grow.

The kids who played here and the rivermen who drowned and their descendent stayed poor. A few people in the cities where the houses were built prospered. The public, who supposedly owned the trees got little except opportunity to pay taxes that in part built sewers in the cities and highways heavy enough for the transports that shuffle consumer goods around the WalMart system. The value exploited from my river by the hydro dam heats the swimming pools of those in the cities who prospered. I know it's not that simple, but it’s true that I have a lot of trouble finding fairness in the larger economic world, but then I don’t expect it either. And, I very much live here by choice.

Well, I suppose it’s time for me to button up my gear and head to the river to experience a small but full and complete world in all the detail that is needed to survive and prosper. Along with my wife, it’s all the world I want. I suppose that’s fair. In my world, I know that you can’t paddle down a rapides successfully with reference to an abstract model of the rapides, you need to read the whole world of the rapides. Maybe fairness is like that as well. Perhaps fairness can only be found within the context of a complete and fully detailed world. Economics is an abstracted model of a world. Just thoughts before my paddle. Nutty, perhaps.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
That's an eloquent post, Tom.

I use the term "fair" as it applies to contract law. Its "fair" in the sense that if you own a home, if society wants to build a road or a park where you live, your property cannot be expropriated without due compensation. Waking up one day to find a wrecking crew outside your house and a 24-hour notice to vacate with no due recourse or compensation would not be "fair" as I see it.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
"All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne

TomG

Wonderful read.

Thank you!

The imagery of water is the most used metaphor in Taoist literature. Water is allegory for time and one perspective on the human spirit.

No amount of hand wringing and breast-beating, wailing and anger can reclaim something that’s been lost.

That includes drowned river valleys and the human spirit.

There are many comments from several folk participating here at CC that appear to confirm the idea that people ‘ought’ to voluntarily limit their window on reality. Limits and boundaries, fences and barricades to both protect notions like “patriotism” and “nationalism” and “make a case” for an idea or an opinion. In calling on these imaginary structures, the call isn’t to acknowledge the nature of these concepts, but to claim protection against opposition and stem critical examination.

Mankind lives in the ‘macrocosm’ and the ‘microcosm’ simultaneously.

We rally around our favorite sport-team, cheering them on to win that contest, to vanquish the challenger and permit us to bask in the glory of their victory through our prudence in supporting them.

Some people ‘belive-in’ elected representation, “democracy” as the most representative model of government. When the greater number of people involved, the ‘majority’ support a concept or an idea, these people are satisfied when representative government craft legislation and laws, that are binding on everyone to the anticipated benefit of everyone. If in fact everyone does benefit from these laws and structures, we believe that the “greater-good” is served and everyone “wins”.

How often are the ‘needs’ of the “majority” placed in context?

How often do we employ an exhaustive examination and debate of alternative perspectives? How frequently is an audit of the history of our “successful” and not so “successful” decision-making-process juxtaposed to the immediate?

We invest in individuals, politicians and “political process” to act as our facilitators and our guides. We “expect” (in a democracy) that these “leaders” will actualize the intent of the majority decision, that the laws that each of us voluntarily embrace will result in outcomes that will satisfy that idea of the ‘greater-good’.

But what is the actual, the “real” nature or character of this ‘greater-good’?

Is this ‘greater-good’ insulated from ‘time’?

Separate some how from the great river of human enterprise and experience?

Is this ‘greater-good’ and our pursuit of it, tempered with an understanding that balance relies on and demands that sacrifice be made?

And who will decide which sacrifice and made by whom will satisfy this “end”?

Government is an abstraction at best. Will the decision by government, this abstraction of a concept… to form compacts agreements and treaties with similar yet different abstract collectives beyond the imaginary boundaries, the borders and limits of our social collective satisfy the notion of the “greater-good”?

Whose “greater-good”?

Will profits realized by those invested in industry and manufacturing represent the “greater-good”? When a person chooses or through circumstance is blessed with the duty and the joy of raising a family, individual desires and self-interests are through necessity given lower emphasis on our priority lists. We have little choice in trading our skills and our abilities for food and shelter, the tasks we face demand that a broader perspective be taken, that a greater horizon than the ‘self’ is now our individual horizon.

If industry and manufacturing provide us the means to realize rewards from our trade, if they facilitate our means to address the needs of our loved ones, then surely the greater-good is served….

If our industry and our trade destroy the world around us, whose greater good is being realized?

If our industry destroys our air, if our industry destroys our water, if our industry destroys our planet, whose greater good is being served?

Are we inescapably and inexorably bound to strive for more wealth more power more of everything to the exhaustion of everything that exists?

Are we serving that “greater-good” through narrowing our focus to the immediate?

We “need” more power to facilitate our taking minerals from the soil, to refine more ore to till more soil to plant more crops to harvest more trees to “prosper”…..to ‘consume’.

We “need” to form agreements with nations, so our “prosperity” will flourish and our bounty will expand. Need we be concerned that grave injustices and great inequity is harbored by those with whom we strike these contracts? On one hand we’re taught to fear those who are “different”.

People who have a different belief system, a different perspective on culture and “law”, to extrapolate from the misdeeds of some few of these different folk to a generalized notion that these differences represent a chasm that cannot be bridged, and that the misdeeds of a few are exemplars for the greater. Yet when these contracts and agreements appear to satisfy at least “our” greater-good, we can “look the other way”, we can accommodate those differences and accomodate compromise on values and perspectives with which we disagree and would find unacceptable in “our” social construct.

Obviously we’ve elected to focus on the immediate. Our appetites for more power and more prosperity and more of everything drives us to forego consideration of everything and anything. We will dam rivers to generate more power. We will clear-cut ancient forests to build homes we must by necessity heat with yet more we take from the earth…..and whose “greater-good” is served when our planet stumbles and quakes under our demands?

We’re prepared and willing to sacrifice the future for the immediate, and we don’t care who pays whatever the price may be. We don’t care so long as we’re satisfied that our “greater-good” is served.




 

TomG

Electoral Member
Oct 27, 2006
135
10
18
I returned from my trip, and I'm indulging myself today. Please bear with me. My life is the ‘self,’ the thing that calls itself ‘I.’ It is like a vessel I fill as best as I can with my experience. My experience is all that I have. It becomes what I am. Some might call it soul. No matter what I experience, good or bad, adds to what I am. Experience, what ever it might be is all the self cares for. No matter what happens, there is no threat to the self as long as I own my own experience and do not take abstractions or another person’s experience as my own. Physical demise is an imponderable.

I paddled up the river to the top of the portage near where the tree that wore the boots of drowned loggers once stood. I camped there for several days and took day trips up river through a small rapides and past a tall granite cliff at the rivers edge where eagles soar and on to a small river called the Filedegrande (the big thread, or father of waters). There I looked for an old trail that would take me around difficult waters.

I didn’t find a trail, but I might another time. The thread is still there, the cliffs, the river, the eagles still soar, and trails even more ancient then I know of are still there as well--waiting to be found, experienced and respected. I did find a pair of old stone-filled timber-crib bridge abutments. An old European road did once cross the thread, but no evidence of a road remains. I wonder what I found?

I may not have found a trail, but I still have my experience: A thought: A thread connects. Waters of the past rushing down the river bed to turn the turbines that power the things of far-off modern prosperity: The same waters that once carried logs that fueled past economies, and left post-logged forests behind. For me the present dims as I travel up a wild river, and I better understand how my life is connected to the past. Others who travel the river may have different experiences. For me, the horizons of my experience broaden and I nourish that which calls itself I. It is my prosperity.

How can the things powered by the turning turbines compete? The turbines power things that to me would be impoverishment—the experience of others mistaken as my own, living a life-style commercial. Fortunately the past seems durable enough to survive once the modern interest in the economy of things becomes inefficient. Denuded of things of modern value, the past is left to itself and to those who may wish to find it and are willing to work a bit against the flow of the past rushing to be consumed by the efficiencies of present prosperities. Perhaps a future interest in an economy of experience might supplant the present economy of things, and governments will be left with suitably diminished roles.

I do tend to be more than a little introspective when I return from my trips. I don’t expect understanding, which seems fair. More from John Donne:

“Go and catch me a falling star,
Get with child a mandrake root,
Tell me where all the past years are,
Or who cleft the Devils foot,
Teach me to hear the mermaids singing,
Or to keep off envy’s stinging,
And find
What wind
Serves to advance an honest mind.

If thou beest born to strange sights,
Things invisible to see,
Ride ten thousand days and nights,
Till age snow white hairs on thee,
Thou, when thou return’st, wilt tell me
All strange wonders that befell thee,
And swear
No where
Lives a woman true and fair…”

All this I would tell as best as I could save Donne’s last request. I would never swear to the latter as Donne wished. My experience is otherwise.
 
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tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
Can't fault a lad for quoting one of the great metaphysical poets! Donne was a powerhouse in the grouping. And his poetry amply reflects what good poetry is really all about: power.
If you can't feel power in a poem, you're not reading the real thing.