Start a new party?
- Thread starter Alberta'sfinest
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This is fun.
This is fun.
I still believe that the only proper way to start new political parties is to do it like most places which is to have local governments Cities Towns and Region apply party systems. The party with more seats apoints the Mayor or Chair of local councils.
Firsly, this allows people to blame a group with majority control for the abuses and mismanagement, so that next time that group will not win control.
Secondly, this allows parties to form from small groups without the need of massive finances at the start to slowly gain power and finances necessary to tackle bigger government responsibilities.
I see this as one of the biggest problems with Canadian Democracy (or should we call it Democary). It is a mockery of democracy we practice here compared with all other democratic countries.
Firsly, this allows people to blame a group with majority control for the abuses and mismanagement, so that next time that group will not win control.
Secondly, this allows parties to form from small groups without the need of massive finances at the start to slowly gain power and finances necessary to tackle bigger government responsibilities.
I see this as one of the biggest problems with Canadian Democracy (or should we call it Democary). It is a mockery of democracy we practice here compared with all other democratic countries.
local governments are more democratic when there are no parties. you seem to be suggesting the bringing one of the problems with the provincial and federal systems to the local level.
You do not seem to understand democracy.
The whole idea is we must have government. It is a necessary evil. Because power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, we elect members from the public to sit as a group over the government to look after our interests.
If we have a united group of people representing the public watching over the government we have more democratic power as people.
Having a bunch of independants means we have LESS power to oversee and direct government activities.
People can then know who is responsible for leting government do the wrong things and change them in the next election with another united group who we beieve will look after the People's interest over the Government's interests.
Government is the bureaucracy and government employees. The People includes the elected representatives of the People (at least this is the way it was supposed to work).
The whole idea is we must have government. It is a necessary evil. Because power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, we elect members from the public to sit as a group over the government to look after our interests.
If we have a united group of people representing the public watching over the government we have more democratic power as people.
Having a bunch of independants means we have LESS power to oversee and direct government activities.
People can then know who is responsible for leting government do the wrong things and change them in the next election with another united group who we beieve will look after the People's interest over the Government's interests.
Government is the bureaucracy and government employees. The People includes the elected representatives of the People (at least this is the way it was supposed to work).
if people want to be a part of democracy, they can look at the independent actions of the officials. Sticking them in a group just makes it easier for lazy people that have no real civic responsibility to play the blame game. Elected representative should represent their constituants, not tow the party line.
In a municipal Council of 24 people, your one elected independant can do squat and be held responsible for nothing.
In fact they use this as a means of avoiding responsibility. Say for example you Town want to put a dump in your back yard. Your counilor will vote against it, vehiminetly, yet it will still be dumped there because the majority vote will go against him.
They can take turn dumping garbage, or stealing money, and each one will votes against it when its their ward affected in turn, and no one can evern blame anyone for anything.
Elected representatives can only be held responsible in groups, because they never have enough say in any decision to overrule a majority. They take turn being part of the majoroty when they are all independant, so no one can be said to stand out to attrct responsibility.
The entire council or group or committee has to be blamed and the only way to deal with groups of politicians at election time is by their party.
In a control and opposition set up you also have one group making decisions and the other group criticizing them, so that the public can know what's going on for next time we vote.
In fact they use this as a means of avoiding responsibility. Say for example you Town want to put a dump in your back yard. Your counilor will vote against it, vehiminetly, yet it will still be dumped there because the majority vote will go against him.
They can take turn dumping garbage, or stealing money, and each one will votes against it when its their ward affected in turn, and no one can evern blame anyone for anything.
Elected representatives can only be held responsible in groups, because they never have enough say in any decision to overrule a majority. They take turn being part of the majoroty when they are all independant, so no one can be said to stand out to attrct responsibility.
The entire council or group or committee has to be blamed and the only way to deal with groups of politicians at election time is by their party.
In a control and opposition set up you also have one group making decisions and the other group criticizing them, so that the public can know what's going on for next time we vote.
may i ask exactly how you got stung that you associate everything with corruption?
in reality, if elected officials work together for the express purpose of producing the best possible working environment for the city/region, the system works. Relying on parties just results in one ideology being rammed through. Since you are so concerned all the time about corruption this should be a concern to you. Do you cherish the idea of a dictatorship?
in reality, if elected officials work together for the express purpose of producing the best possible working environment for the city/region, the system works. Relying on parties just results in one ideology being rammed through. Since you are so concerned all the time about corruption this should be a concern to you. Do you cherish the idea of a dictatorship?
We have dictatorships today in the Regional Governments of Ontario.
It's all in the hands of their non-elected officials with life-long public powers. They are corrupt in the wort possible ways, inbread and interwovenly corrupt, ethically and morally; collectively and systemically stealing and wasting many hundreds of millions of dollars each year and directing elections around them with their nefarious influences acquired from manipulating vast sums of public money as they spend less legitimately than they give away and/or take. With sums exceeding $20 Billion Dollars outside of public scrutiny and/or audit and will spend tens of millions of the public money malicioulsy to hurt people for the fun and personal excitement of it.
They are a cesspool of corruption, without any checks or balances, the likes of which does not exists anywhere in the world, eminating fear across all level of politics and parties.
Elected officials do absolutely nothing, or work for the Region's interests, or stay out of their way completely to avoid getting personally destroyed by the evil creatures that lurk there squirming unseens under the protective rocks they crawl from to bite people as they please with their poisoned malicious heartless souls.
It's all in the hands of their non-elected officials with life-long public powers. They are corrupt in the wort possible ways, inbread and interwovenly corrupt, ethically and morally; collectively and systemically stealing and wasting many hundreds of millions of dollars each year and directing elections around them with their nefarious influences acquired from manipulating vast sums of public money as they spend less legitimately than they give away and/or take. With sums exceeding $20 Billion Dollars outside of public scrutiny and/or audit and will spend tens of millions of the public money malicioulsy to hurt people for the fun and personal excitement of it.
They are a cesspool of corruption, without any checks or balances, the likes of which does not exists anywhere in the world, eminating fear across all level of politics and parties.
Elected officials do absolutely nothing, or work for the Region's interests, or stay out of their way completely to avoid getting personally destroyed by the evil creatures that lurk there squirming unseens under the protective rocks they crawl from to bite people as they please with their poisoned malicious heartless souls.
iamcanadian, I think the problem here are two things. 1. Everything you are saying is mostly right. 2. Most people won't see it your way because they would have to be educated in polly sci and forget about there cynicalism about the political parties, politicians and politics in general.
I'm pretty sure even though I believe in the reform to local governments your talking about in November 13 2006 when I run for city council I will not have it on my platform. This could change if I get postive feed back from my community about this when I'm talking to them more.
I'm pretty sure even though I believe in the reform to local governments your talking about in November 13 2006 when I run for city council I will not have it on my platform. This could change if I get postive feed back from my community about this when I'm talking to them more.
Re: RE: Start a new party?
I don't know the current system just helps keep the puplic ignorant of who they are voting for.
I'd have to support some kind of party system in the local elections. Would be interesting to see.
But then again I think if we did have a system of parties I don't think party diciplan would be a factor. But if it did become a factor that could hurt local politics too.
Don't know there are pros and cons to this and would depend on how much party diciplan would be expected.
the caracal kid said:
I don't know the current system just helps keep the puplic ignorant of who they are voting for.
I'd have to support some kind of party system in the local elections. Would be interesting to see.
But then again I think if we did have a system of parties I don't think party diciplan would be a factor. But if it did become a factor that could hurt local politics too.
Don't know there are pros and cons to this and would depend on how much party diciplan would be expected.
I don't see how a party in the lcal level can possibly be a negative thing. Most democratic places in the world have parties in local levels.
Anytime there are decisions government makes, there should be a group with the responsibility to make it and be accountable for them and another group to critique decisions to keep them in check and make them accountable.
A Rulling group and an Opposition group.
When decisions are good the public will know because there will be nothing to criticize. When decisions are bad the public will know why and how bad they are because there is a group able to tell us.
It becomes a more open and transparent process.
Furthermore it removes some of the ability of the government and its bureaucrats to dictate who gets elected.
Anytime there are decisions government makes, there should be a group with the responsibility to make it and be accountable for them and another group to critique decisions to keep them in check and make them accountable.
A Rulling group and an Opposition group.
When decisions are good the public will know because there will be nothing to criticize. When decisions are bad the public will know why and how bad they are because there is a group able to tell us.
It becomes a more open and transparent process.
Furthermore it removes some of the ability of the government and its bureaucrats to dictate who gets elected.