Start a new party?

[iamcanadian]

http://www.thehaltonherald.ca/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=904

This is one of the main reasons we need political parties to hold accountable in municipal levels. These types of problems can't be dealt with come election time by voting on individuals who are just one vote out of many on local councils.

 

[coldstream]

In 1993 I joined, and actively supported Mel Hurtig's, Canadian National Party. It quickly fell into confusion. One of its supporters gave $4 Million to support the cause against Free Trade and sell out of Canadian sovereignty, which Chretien and the Liberals were lying about in their party platform. They never found out what happened to the money, but as much as half seemed to have been pilfered and went unaccounted for.

In Toronto, the homosexual lobby did a planned infiltration of the party, so it could use it as a platform for its agenda. That completely alienated the traditional conservative, family, and labour voters we were trying to woo. The party soon fell into bickering and factions at the national level.. although it did get something like a quarter of a million votes.. there is almost nothing left of it as a legacy.

I was thinking of joining the Canadian Action Party. Which had a good nationalist platform, including anti-neo-liberal monetary, trade and social policies. It got a few thousand votes in the last election. It was founded by Paul Hellyer, who most notable mark in history was of the very questionable unification of the Armed Services in the 60s. Lately he's put out statements proposing dialogue and a defensive strategy agaist UFOs.. so he seems to have gone ga-ga in his late 80s.

New parties set themselves up for coopting by single issue advocacy groups, mismanagement, underfunding, infighting.. It takes a long time to build a solid platform and protect it from pretenders, after its money and profile. It has happened in the past though. Right now I see huge areas of the public policy that aren't being addressed by the main parties.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The CAP is a pretty solid party now, Coldstream. It seems to have collected a fair number of the more dedicated people from Mel Hurtig's CNP, and Hellyer is not a real factor anymore.

 

[Finder]

I think to bring this back to one of your orginal points the NDP platform is very Fiscally resouncable.

The charge that the NDP isn't fiscally responsible always makes me laugh. In Saskatchewan and Manitoba, they have a better record than the Conservatives lately or the Liberals when they were still a factor. In B.C. the NDP record is about equal to the others.

Saskatchewan and Manitoba are notoriously hard economies to manage because of their small size and the undue influence of outside factors, not to mention that corporations are reluctant to cooperate in even the smallest ways.

I think since Ontario has the most Seats in parliment it was the Ontario NDP which hurt the NDP the most in the past 15 years. I don't blame Bob Rae for what happend to Ontario in the early 90's personally because the world was in ressesion, but alot of people still believe this anyhow. Oh and Bob Rae didn't do a good job at balancing the books but that in itself was a hard job at the time.

 

[Finder]

In 1993 I joined, and actively supported Mel Hurtig's, Canadian National Party. It quickly fell into confusion. One of its supporters gave $4 Million to support the cause against Free Trade and sell out of Canadian sovereignty, which Chretien and the Liberals were lying about in their party platform. They never found out what happened to the money, but as much as half seemed to have been pilfered and went unaccounted for.

In Toronto, the homosexual lobby did a planned infiltration of the party, so it could use it as a platform for its agenda. That completely alienated the traditional conservative, family, and labour voters we were trying to woo. The party soon fell into bickering and factions at the national level.. although it did get something like a quarter of a million votes.. there is almost nothing left of it as a legacy.

I was thinking of joining the Canadian Action Party. Which had a good nationalist platform, including anti-neo-liberal monetary, trade and social policies. It got a few thousand votes in the last election. It was founded by Paul Hellyer, who most notable mark in history was of the very questionable unification of the Armed Services in the 60s. Lately he's put out statements proposing dialogue and a defensive strategy agaist UFOs.. so he seems to have gone ga-ga in his late 80s.

New parties set themselves up for coopting by single issue advocacy groups, mismanagement, underfunding, infighting.. It takes a long time to build a solid platform and protect it from pretenders, after its money and profile. It has happened in the past though. Right now I see huge areas of the public policy that aren't being addressed by the main parties.

My father was a big support of the National Party and then it's succer the Canadian Action party. Really it was a Left of Centre Liberal party against Nafta. Really I think at the time it would have been better to just support the NDP at that time. I have nothing against either party as they had better policies then the Liberals or the PC's at the time.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I think since Ontario has the most Seats in parliment it was the Ontario NDP which hurt the NDP the most in the past 15 years. I don't blame Bob Rae for what happend to Ontario in the early 90's personally because the world was in ressesion, but alot of people still believe this anyhow. Oh and Bob Rae didn't do a good job at balancing the books but that in itself was a hard job at the time.

It's also true that Rae's spending is what kicked the economy back into gear and made Ontario the powerhouse it is today.

Unfortunately Mike Harris used the NDP spending as an excuse to cut everything. The reality is that Harris' cuts were made because that's his ideology and he would have made them if the NDP left the books in the black, but that's not what he spent eight years telling people.

Face it though, Harris put a high school dropout in as Minister of Education. Do you really think he wouldn't have slashed spending on education no matter how much money he had? He was opposed to any kind of public spending, plain and simple. He wanted to give it all to his corporate cronies.

The other reality is that Bob Rae is a Liberal. He was Liberal before he joined the NDP and his name is now on the short list for next federal Liberal leader. To continue to punish the NDP for something Rae did is kind of silly.

 

[Jay]

Provincially we don't punish the NDP for Bob Rae; we punish them for wanting to raise taxes. The NDP are tax/borrow and spenders and we know it. Ontario isn't going to vote in a NDP government that drives business away and raises taxes. That would be stupid.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Ah Jay...you are so uninformed that it's frightening.

 

[Jay]

Your not even from here. WTF do you know about any of this?

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll: I don't live in a cave, Jay.

 

[Jay]

Good for you. Neither do I, but I do live in Ontario, and I do follow Ontario elections.....and I know what the NDP platform against Harris was....AND IT WAS TO RAISE TAXES!! I also know they got screw all seats and Harris had to float them.

 

[Reverend Blair]

You seem to get your understanding of federal politics from a cave though, Jay. You completely ignore all of the relevant things about the situation in your own province. You completely misconstrue both Rae's four years and Harris' devastating eight years. You never address the fact that Harris benefitted from Rae's spending because he walked into an economy on the upswing. You never acknowledge Rae's Liberal history.

In short you don't discuss politics and you don't care about anything but your own tiny little purse. You simply put your own incredibly short-sighted interests ahead of everything else and blabber incessantly about things you have no real grasp of.

 

[Jay]

As I said before, I'm completely aware that only you understand all the issue, and have all the answers.

Have a Great Day!!

 

[Reverend Blair]

Not just me, Jay, and not just those who share my political leanings. There is a very small, very vocal group of uber-conservatives who refuse not only to understand the issues, but even to admit that the issues exist. You fit the bill.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Start a new party?

Not just me, Jay, and not just those who share my political leanings. There is a very small, very vocal group of uber-conservatives who refuse not only to understand the issues, but even to admit that the issues exist. You fit the bill.

From my point of view....right back at you except replace the word "Jay" with Rev, and after the word "uber" replace the word conservative with lefty, or liberal or NDPer or what ever you think fits the bill.

You seem to think you have some sort of monopoly on understanding what the issues are, and the answers, and you clearly hate conservatives without a doubt. Your contempt for anything slightly right of anything is obvious, and you call anyone with conservative idea's names and tell them they don't understand. I don't buy it, and if I argue the point I will get PM's from a certain mod saying silly things with threats of my removal. SO guess what? I'm not going to argue the points with you. I don't have mods to hide behind.

Take this as an example. Bob Rae spends 10 billion in deficits and you call it a good thing and say that Harris rode Rae's plan into economic prosperity. But Mulroney on the other hand drove the country into debt and the Liberals have had to deal with the problem. See, I think you're as bias as they come and can't see even close to clearly cause of it. I doubt I'm alone on this, but I also think those who see things they way I do, don't vote NDP, or any other far left fringe group of "the sky is falling" tricksters.

Have a great day.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Rae's spending kick-started an economy while providing services, Mulroney's trashed an economy while taking services away. You miss those points.

That's what I mean, Jay. You never look at anything any deeper than your own purse.

You don't like the way I talk about your heroes? The learn enough to put up a real argument. You have yet to do that on any front.

 

[Jay]

I have very few heroes Rev. That is just your spin on this.

As for your "real argument" conjecture....just because you don't like the argument, doesn't mean it isn't real. It's called a different point of view. Hell, if you were actually correct in your thinking, Canada would be run by the NDP, and it isn't. It's people like me that put up opposition to the nanny state and fight for fundamental freedoms.

BTW, I'm not only concerned about my own purse. That is just ridiculous. I am concerned with being over taxed as all people with a brain should be. I don't need the centralized nanny state you so desperately want to create and I don't need you and the left to tell me how to run my life. If it wasn't for people like me complaining about high taxes and government waste, you'd have us on the road to hell in a hand basket.

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll: Another post by Jay with no substance.

 

[Jay]

:idea: Just stop reading and commenting on my posts.

 

[Reverend Blair]

:roll: