Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

[Reverend Blair]

The only reason the Liberals are still in power is because of people like SirKevin and Peapod.

No, the reason that the Liberals are still in power is because they are in the centre of the political spectrum. Their election platforms stand on social issues they take from the NDP, and they stand on a fiscal record that is far better than Mulroney's and economists are more far more sure of than Harper's proposed policies.

In other words the Liberals run from the left and govern from the right.

The Liberals continue to do nothing but spread fear about the conservatives because it was worked in the past.

The Conservatives spread the fear themselves. All the Liberals do is point and nod.

And why should they change it is a strategy that has worked for the past 12 years and until the people decide they want a party that will lead rather than scare people about alternatives, things will never change.

The Conservatives don't lead. There are no leaders in the party. Harper is a policy wonk...a backroom boy who has quit politics twice because he didn't get his way. He's a petulant child, not a leader. That's a large part of their problem because it leaves them practicing attack politics and looking for scandals instead of dealing with real issues that aren't divisive for the party and the country.

RB, as for saying it was Kim Campbell that was defeated in 1992, she was dead long before the election call was made.

Funny, I saw her on TV just a little while ago. Not only is she still alive, but she's still politically active. She works with a group of world business and political leaders in developing proposed policies.

I can't say I agree with her, but she's very much alive and very much working in a positive way instead of telling people who they can have sex with.

When the people voted, they didn't vote against Kim Campbell, they voted against the Conservatives that were seen as corrupt under Mulroney.

So obviously, by those criteria, Harper should have won a landslide victory in the last election.

The conservatives could have had Jesus Christ as their leader and they wouldn't have had a chance.

If you read the words attributed to Jesus in the Bible, I think you'll find that he'd avoid the Conservatives like the plague. He might run for the NDP though. 8)

The people we angry with the Conservatives for the GST and Free Trade and the Liberals said they would get rid of them. Those three items, Hatred of Conservatives, GST and Free Trade won the election for the Liberals.

If that's all there was to it then Layton would have won the last election in a landslide. People don't like Liberals much, want lower taxes, and have serious questions about Liberal trade policies. There are regional concerns (especially in Quebec); long-standing voting patterns; sociologic patterns; myths, half-truths and outright lies; press coverage and bias; public perception of leadership abilities; issues and how they pertain to demographics; and a plethora of other things that influence elections.

The Conservative attempts to use attack politics because oftheir mistaken belief that is what got them booted out office a decade ago is laughable. It shows a complete lack of understanding of politics beyond attacking others and it has caused a huge imbalance in Canadian politics.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The only reason the Liberals are still in power is because of people like SirKevin and Peapod.

No, the reason that the Liberals are still in power is because they are in the centre of the political spectrum. Their election platforms stand on social issues they take from the NDP, and they stand on a fiscal record that is far better than Mulroney's and economists are more far more sure of than Harper's proposed policies.

In other words the Liberals run from the left and govern from the right.

The Liberals continue to do nothing but spread fear about the conservatives because it was worked in the past.

The Conservatives spread the fear themselves. All the Liberals do is point and nod.

And why should they change it is a strategy that has worked for the past 12 years and until the people decide they want a party that will lead rather than scare people about alternatives, things will never change.

The Conservatives don't lead. There are no leaders in the party. Harper is a policy wonk...a backroom boy who has quit politics twice because he didn't get his way. He's a petulant child, not a leader. That's a large part of their problem because it leaves them practicing attack politics and looking for scandals instead of dealing with real issues that aren't divisive for the party and the country.

RB, as for saying it was Kim Campbell that was defeated in 1992, she was dead long before the election call was made.

Funny, I saw her on TV just a little while ago. Not only is she still alive, but she's still politically active. She works with a group of world business and political leaders in developing proposed policies.

I can't say I agree with her, but she's very much alive and very much working in a positive way instead of telling people who they can have sex with.

When the people voted, they didn't vote against Kim Campbell, they voted against the Conservatives that were seen as corrupt under Mulroney.

So obviously, by those criteria, Harper should have won a landslide victory in the last election.

The conservatives could have had Jesus Christ as their leader and they wouldn't have had a chance.

If you read the words attributed to Jesus in the Bible, I think you'll find that he'd avoid the Conservatives like the plague. He might run for the NDP though. 8)

The people we angry with the Conservatives for the GST and Free Trade and the Liberals said they would get rid of them. Those three items, Hatred of Conservatives, GST and Free Trade won the election for the Liberals.

If that's all there was to it then Layton would have won the last election in a landslide. People don't like Liberals much, want lower taxes, and have serious questions about Liberal trade policies. There are regional concerns (especially in Quebec); long-standing voting patterns; sociologic patterns; myths, half-truths and outright lies; press coverage and bias; public perception of leadership abilities; issues and how they pertain to demographics; and a plethora of other things that influence elections.

The Conservative attempts to use attack politics because oftheir mistaken belief that is what got them booted out office a decade ago is laughable. It shows a complete lack of understanding of politics beyond attacking others and it has caused a huge imbalance in Canadian politics.

 

[tibear]

RB,

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

It was a known fact that just before the last election, the Conservatives were leading in the polls and then the Liberals started the two-tier health care scare.(What a crock!)

Several voters did change votes from Conservative to Liberal but even more moved from the NDP to the Liberals because the NDPers don't want to have anything to do with a Conservative government. Sort of like Peapod an SirKevin said, anything but the Conservatives.

The NDP party is the worst party of the bunch because they know they have no chance of gaining power so they sit in the background making rediculus policies. I know you'll claim that the Liberals take most of their policies from the NDP. If that was the case why haven't the NDP ever even been the official opposition. They been around how many years now and they haven't accomplished anything.

If the NDP have such great policies how come they can't make a breakthrough to win 50, 60 or 100 seats never mind enough to form government. Is it their campaigns?? Is it the bias Canadians have against the NDP.

No, none of the above, its because the NDP lose votes to the Liberals because those people want to make sure the Conservatives don't get their seat.

 

[tibear]

RB,

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

It was a known fact that just before the last election, the Conservatives were leading in the polls and then the Liberals started the two-tier health care scare.(What a crock!)

Several voters did change votes from Conservative to Liberal but even more moved from the NDP to the Liberals because the NDPers don't want to have anything to do with a Conservative government. Sort of like Peapod an SirKevin said, anything but the Conservatives.

The NDP party is the worst party of the bunch because they know they have no chance of gaining power so they sit in the background making rediculus policies. I know you'll claim that the Liberals take most of their policies from the NDP. If that was the case why haven't the NDP ever even been the official opposition. They been around how many years now and they haven't accomplished anything.

If the NDP have such great policies how come they can't make a breakthrough to win 50, 60 or 100 seats never mind enough to form government. Is it their campaigns?? Is it the bias Canadians have against the NDP.

No, none of the above, its because the NDP lose votes to the Liberals because those people want to make sure the Conservatives don't get their seat.

 

[tibear]

RB,

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

It was a known fact that just before the last election, the Conservatives were leading in the polls and then the Liberals started the two-tier health care scare.(What a crock!)

Several voters did change votes from Conservative to Liberal but even more moved from the NDP to the Liberals because the NDPers don't want to have anything to do with a Conservative government. Sort of like Peapod an SirKevin said, anything but the Conservatives.

The NDP party is the worst party of the bunch because they know they have no chance of gaining power so they sit in the background making rediculus policies. I know you'll claim that the Liberals take most of their policies from the NDP. If that was the case why haven't the NDP ever even been the official opposition. They been around how many years now and they haven't accomplished anything.

If the NDP have such great policies how come they can't make a breakthrough to win 50, 60 or 100 seats never mind enough to form government. Is it their campaigns?? Is it the bias Canadians have against the NDP.

No, none of the above, its because the NDP lose votes to the Liberals because those people want to make sure the Conservatives don't get their seat.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

There's some truth to that. Liberal tactics cost the NDP a couple of seats in Saskatchewan...one that I was sign-boy in...and possibly some in Ontario and BC. It is far more complex than that though.

You want to talk about scare campaigns? Look at how the Conservatives and right-wing Liberals (Martinites) refer to the NDP. They are continually demonized as being tax and spend despite the fact that every plank in the NDP platfrom has included where the money was going to come from for years and that the tax and spend image simply is not true. How many people actually read the policies? Nobody except for political junkies and they don't change their stripes too easily.

Toss in a media that doesn't provide even coverage, giving the majority of time to the Liberals and the Conservatives, the fact that last two NDP leaders came across as one-note Johnnies in the campaigns (neither were, but that was the goofy strategy the party adopted).

Layton came in (and he's still not my first choice) and changed a lot of the strategy. The number of seats went up, the percentage of the popular vote went up even more. The media coverage has increased. A variety of policies are discussed. There is still a long way to go in getting the real message out and dispelling the myths perpetuated by the Liberals and Conservatives though.

I don't know how much attention you actually pay to politics, tibear, but I'd suggest that you pay a lot more. Every party has a website. CPAC televises committee meetings etc (where the real work gets done). There are several places where you pick up rumours and hints as to internal party politics. There are plenty of books that cover political battles over the last fifty years. If you want to learn about politics, how it really works and what people and parties really stand for, the information is out there. It takes a lot of critical thinking though...a lot of asking, "Why are they they doing that?"

If you do that, you will come to understand why the Conservatives under Stephen Harper will never hold power, why people consistently vote against them. You'll also come to understand why it was so important (and damned cool) for Chretien to show his balls on TV.

If you do all that and are honest with yourself I doubt you will support the Conservatives anymore either. Ot the right side of the Liberal Party. They work against your better interests on a daily basis.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

There's some truth to that. Liberal tactics cost the NDP a couple of seats in Saskatchewan...one that I was sign-boy in...and possibly some in Ontario and BC. It is far more complex than that though.

You want to talk about scare campaigns? Look at how the Conservatives and right-wing Liberals (Martinites) refer to the NDP. They are continually demonized as being tax and spend despite the fact that every plank in the NDP platfrom has included where the money was going to come from for years and that the tax and spend image simply is not true. How many people actually read the policies? Nobody except for political junkies and they don't change their stripes too easily.

Toss in a media that doesn't provide even coverage, giving the majority of time to the Liberals and the Conservatives, the fact that last two NDP leaders came across as one-note Johnnies in the campaigns (neither were, but that was the goofy strategy the party adopted).

Layton came in (and he's still not my first choice) and changed a lot of the strategy. The number of seats went up, the percentage of the popular vote went up even more. The media coverage has increased. A variety of policies are discussed. There is still a long way to go in getting the real message out and dispelling the myths perpetuated by the Liberals and Conservatives though.

I don't know how much attention you actually pay to politics, tibear, but I'd suggest that you pay a lot more. Every party has a website. CPAC televises committee meetings etc (where the real work gets done). There are several places where you pick up rumours and hints as to internal party politics. There are plenty of books that cover political battles over the last fifty years. If you want to learn about politics, how it really works and what people and parties really stand for, the information is out there. It takes a lot of critical thinking though...a lot of asking, "Why are they they doing that?"

If you do that, you will come to understand why the Conservatives under Stephen Harper will never hold power, why people consistently vote against them. You'll also come to understand why it was so important (and damned cool) for Chretien to show his balls on TV.

If you do all that and are honest with yourself I doubt you will support the Conservatives anymore either. Ot the right side of the Liberal Party. They work against your better interests on a daily basis.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The NDP would do much better if the Liberals didn't use the scare campaigns against the Conservatives.

There's some truth to that. Liberal tactics cost the NDP a couple of seats in Saskatchewan...one that I was sign-boy in...and possibly some in Ontario and BC. It is far more complex than that though.

You want to talk about scare campaigns? Look at how the Conservatives and right-wing Liberals (Martinites) refer to the NDP. They are continually demonized as being tax and spend despite the fact that every plank in the NDP platfrom has included where the money was going to come from for years and that the tax and spend image simply is not true. How many people actually read the policies? Nobody except for political junkies and they don't change their stripes too easily.

Toss in a media that doesn't provide even coverage, giving the majority of time to the Liberals and the Conservatives, the fact that last two NDP leaders came across as one-note Johnnies in the campaigns (neither were, but that was the goofy strategy the party adopted).

Layton came in (and he's still not my first choice) and changed a lot of the strategy. The number of seats went up, the percentage of the popular vote went up even more. The media coverage has increased. A variety of policies are discussed. There is still a long way to go in getting the real message out and dispelling the myths perpetuated by the Liberals and Conservatives though.

I don't know how much attention you actually pay to politics, tibear, but I'd suggest that you pay a lot more. Every party has a website. CPAC televises committee meetings etc (where the real work gets done). There are several places where you pick up rumours and hints as to internal party politics. There are plenty of books that cover political battles over the last fifty years. If you want to learn about politics, how it really works and what people and parties really stand for, the information is out there. It takes a lot of critical thinking though...a lot of asking, "Why are they they doing that?"

If you do that, you will come to understand why the Conservatives under Stephen Harper will never hold power, why people consistently vote against them. You'll also come to understand why it was so important (and damned cool) for Chretien to show his balls on TV.

If you do all that and are honest with yourself I doubt you will support the Conservatives anymore either. Ot the right side of the Liberal Party. They work against your better interests on a daily basis.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! Tibear

The only reason that the NDP are viewed as not having a chance of forming a government is because they are ridiculed by everyone and have been since the beginning of time.

When was the last time we saw any newspaper devote any space to "Union" views and social directions?
When was the last time you saw any in-depth news about the labour movement in Canada?

There is a concerted effort by powerful interests to destroy or discredit any form of grassroots organization.

The only problem that the NDP have is that they tell the truth! And, the truth hurts! The truth depresses us!
So, we vote for a smile of confidence. We vote for the "establishment" .... like the fools we are!

The establishment only wants 2 choices. The NDP is just a party of conscience and a megaphone for the poor .... but the two choices have always been dictated by the establishment.

The reason the Conservatives joined with the Alliance was because the bankers refused to finance both the Alliance and the Conservatives. The bankers refused to pay Joe Clark's salary.
The Conservative Party was bankrupt and so was the Alliance Party.
The establishment "ordered" that they join as one Party.

Another thing that always gets my hackles up are those people that keep harping for tax cuts. What the hell is that? These people who brag about getting a tax break are paying it all back in fuel taxes. If Martin had any class at all, he would of reduced or frozen the taxes on gasoline because as the price skyrocked, so did the taxes we paid. (GST)
And if they give us a tax break, they just pass it off to the increase in drivers licences, fishing licences, and other government stuff that used to be almost free.
It's all a sham. There is no such thing as a tax cut!

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! Tibear

The only reason that the NDP are viewed as not having a chance of forming a government is because they are ridiculed by everyone and have been since the beginning of time.

When was the last time we saw any newspaper devote any space to "Union" views and social directions?
When was the last time you saw any in-depth news about the labour movement in Canada?

There is a concerted effort by powerful interests to destroy or discredit any form of grassroots organization.

The only problem that the NDP have is that they tell the truth! And, the truth hurts! The truth depresses us!
So, we vote for a smile of confidence. We vote for the "establishment" .... like the fools we are!

The establishment only wants 2 choices. The NDP is just a party of conscience and a megaphone for the poor .... but the two choices have always been dictated by the establishment.

The reason the Conservatives joined with the Alliance was because the bankers refused to finance both the Alliance and the Conservatives. The bankers refused to pay Joe Clark's salary.
The Conservative Party was bankrupt and so was the Alliance Party.
The establishment "ordered" that they join as one Party.

Another thing that always gets my hackles up are those people that keep harping for tax cuts. What the hell is that? These people who brag about getting a tax break are paying it all back in fuel taxes. If Martin had any class at all, he would of reduced or frozen the taxes on gasoline because as the price skyrocked, so did the taxes we paid. (GST)
And if they give us a tax break, they just pass it off to the increase in drivers licences, fishing licences, and other government stuff that used to be almost free.
It's all a sham. There is no such thing as a tax cut!

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Calm

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hi! Tibear

The only reason that the NDP are viewed as not having a chance of forming a government is because they are ridiculed by everyone and have been since the beginning of time.

When was the last time we saw any newspaper devote any space to "Union" views and social directions?
When was the last time you saw any in-depth news about the labour movement in Canada?

There is a concerted effort by powerful interests to destroy or discredit any form of grassroots organization.

The only problem that the NDP have is that they tell the truth! And, the truth hurts! The truth depresses us!
So, we vote for a smile of confidence. We vote for the "establishment" .... like the fools we are!

The establishment only wants 2 choices. The NDP is just a party of conscience and a megaphone for the poor .... but the two choices have always been dictated by the establishment.

The reason the Conservatives joined with the Alliance was because the bankers refused to finance both the Alliance and the Conservatives. The bankers refused to pay Joe Clark's salary.
The Conservative Party was bankrupt and so was the Alliance Party.
The establishment "ordered" that they join as one Party.

Another thing that always gets my hackles up are those people that keep harping for tax cuts. What the hell is that? These people who brag about getting a tax break are paying it all back in fuel taxes. If Martin had any class at all, he would of reduced or frozen the taxes on gasoline because as the price skyrocked, so did the taxes we paid. (GST)
And if they give us a tax break, they just pass it off to the increase in drivers licences, fishing licences, and other government stuff that used to be almost free.
It's all a sham. There is no such thing as a tax cut!

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Calm

 

[Reverend Blair]

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Well, there's the CAP and that new party...the Cosmopolitan or Neopolitan Party or something like that. The Greens used to have a conscience but that seems to have disappeared, at least federally. David Orchard has a conscience and he's actually a conservative. If he takes control of the new Progressive Canadian Party that could turn into something good.

All that contributes to the Liberals and Conservatives keeping control too.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Well, there's the CAP and that new party...the Cosmopolitan or Neopolitan Party or something like that. The Greens used to have a conscience but that seems to have disappeared, at least federally. David Orchard has a conscience and he's actually a conservative. If he takes control of the new Progressive Canadian Party that could turn into something good.

All that contributes to the Liberals and Conservatives keeping control too.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The only hope we have for change is the NDP. They are the only party with a social conscience.

Well, there's the CAP and that new party...the Cosmopolitan or Neopolitan Party or something like that. The Greens used to have a conscience but that seems to have disappeared, at least federally. David Orchard has a conscience and he's actually a conservative. If he takes control of the new Progressive Canadian Party that could turn into something good.

All that contributes to the Liberals and Conservatives keeping control too.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I'm very politically aware. I know the reasons why Chretien "showed his balls". It was to show up the commissioner, plain and simple.

The reason the media doesn't pay equal attention to the NDP as they do to the Conservatives and Liberals is because the NDP will never stand a chance of winning.

Your from Manitoba, do you say the provincial Liberal campaign is given the same attention as the NDP or Conservative. No, because the Liberals don't stand a chance of winning.

Provincially, Manitoba is a mini picture of the rest of the Canada. The rural areas are basically Conservative(like Alberta nationally), the north and parts of Winnipeg are NDP(like the LIberals in Quebec) and parts of Winnipeg are fought amongs the three parties(like Ontario, BC, maritimes and Man and Sask)

All of the energy goes into elections fighting their main rivals in certain ridings. Provincially the Conservatives don't fight the Liberals because they really want to have the Liverals and NDP splitting votes which in the end would allow the Conservatives to come up the middle. Similar to the Conservative bashing nationally by the Liberal, the Provincial NDP do the same to the Conservatives because they want the Liberals to know that the Conservatives may gain power if they don't vote NDP.

So basically, the Liberals federally and the NDP provincially campaign basically the same. They put forth platforms, but if it starts to fail they start negative campaigning against the conservatives hoping to gain other support from other parties.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I'm very politically aware. I know the reasons why Chretien "showed his balls". It was to show up the commissioner, plain and simple.

The reason the media doesn't pay equal attention to the NDP as they do to the Conservatives and Liberals is because the NDP will never stand a chance of winning.

Your from Manitoba, do you say the provincial Liberal campaign is given the same attention as the NDP or Conservative. No, because the Liberals don't stand a chance of winning.

Provincially, Manitoba is a mini picture of the rest of the Canada. The rural areas are basically Conservative(like Alberta nationally), the north and parts of Winnipeg are NDP(like the LIberals in Quebec) and parts of Winnipeg are fought amongs the three parties(like Ontario, BC, maritimes and Man and Sask)

All of the energy goes into elections fighting their main rivals in certain ridings. Provincially the Conservatives don't fight the Liberals because they really want to have the Liverals and NDP splitting votes which in the end would allow the Conservatives to come up the middle. Similar to the Conservative bashing nationally by the Liberal, the Provincial NDP do the same to the Conservatives because they want the Liberals to know that the Conservatives may gain power if they don't vote NDP.

So basically, the Liberals federally and the NDP provincially campaign basically the same. They put forth platforms, but if it starts to fail they start negative campaigning against the conservatives hoping to gain other support from other parties.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I'm very politically aware. I know the reasons why Chretien "showed his balls". It was to show up the commissioner, plain and simple.

The reason the media doesn't pay equal attention to the NDP as they do to the Conservatives and Liberals is because the NDP will never stand a chance of winning.

Your from Manitoba, do you say the provincial Liberal campaign is given the same attention as the NDP or Conservative. No, because the Liberals don't stand a chance of winning.

Provincially, Manitoba is a mini picture of the rest of the Canada. The rural areas are basically Conservative(like Alberta nationally), the north and parts of Winnipeg are NDP(like the LIberals in Quebec) and parts of Winnipeg are fought amongs the three parties(like Ontario, BC, maritimes and Man and Sask)

All of the energy goes into elections fighting their main rivals in certain ridings. Provincially the Conservatives don't fight the Liberals because they really want to have the Liverals and NDP splitting votes which in the end would allow the Conservatives to come up the middle. Similar to the Conservative bashing nationally by the Liberal, the Provincial NDP do the same to the Conservatives because they want the Liberals to know that the Conservatives may gain power if they don't vote NDP.

So basically, the Liberals federally and the NDP provincially campaign basically the same. They put forth platforms, but if it starts to fail they start negative campaigning against the conservatives hoping to gain other support from other parties.

 

[Jay]

Harper's ideology is the problem, JJ. Are you saying you share that ideology? If Miguel Figueroa became the leader of the NDP, I'd certainly take my vote elsewhere.

I wanted to share with you the warm fuzzy feeling I get when you call me JJ. In order to do that I need a pet name for you, and Reverend Dear is it, until you stop calling me JJ.

I vote right, if Harper is the leader of the right, then what alternative do I have but to vote for him, I don't have (nor do I want) two right parties, I want strong leadership if I can get it. I can't vote left, and the reasons are clear. I do not belong to the swing vote category, and my vote cannot be bought.

No, any American who has enough money and whose Daddy made enough Supreme Court appointments can become president.

And how do Clinton and Carter fit into this distorted picture? I don't believe it for a minute. This is just your hate for the right showing through, again :roll:

No actually, it doesn't. It shows that some people in politics are corrupt. It points to those having ties to business being more likely to be corrupt than those without such ties.

All the politicians have ties to business. Unless the left killed off all the business in the riding.

I've sent them money, I've donated my time. I've partaken in the political process. Apparently you not only haven't done that, but feel that it's somehow beneath you.

I partake in the process, I'm doing it right now and I vote.
I applaud your extra involvement in politics, I just don’t have time at the moment, its not that it is beneath me, because In the future I feel I'm going to have too. But I'm not giving them a nickel more until the bastards stop ripping me off.

I do mean that I applaud your giving more for your causes. it is respectable.

No, the corporations just buy the government and tell them what laws to write. It's all above board and legal, so you seem to feel that's okay.

Well I expect corporations to have a say, and I highly doubt that would change under the NDP, the corporations will still have a say either way. One, they will lobby the government, or as I suspect will happen under the NDP, they will have a say with their feet, and leave, and I will loose my non-government job.

What the hell do you think they mean when they spew all that pro-business rhetoric?

I think they have pro-business rhetoric, because it has a stabilizing effect. People understand their will be jobs, and corporations feel the climate is right to do business in Canada. This is why the NDP will not be voted in, we don't trust them. The have anti- wealth and anti-corporation rhetoric, but in their defense, at least their honest.

We already have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world, JJ. Look it up.

And the NDP would change that in a quick hurry, and the company I work for would have to lay ppl off, they would need to go on assistance.

We need less government. If the tax burden has been moved to the working classes, then I feel even more justified in my wanting a fiscally responsible conservative government who will run on platforms of leanness, tax reduction, less socialism, more freedom, with a clear understanding of provincial powers.

then.....

So you'll be joining the NDP then?

Not unless they have decided to become a right wing party that does what I said I wanted. So for fun I went to their web page, and boom the first thing you see, is that they have no respect for provincial powers. They want to "cut tuition fees" and further study of their page reveals more provincial intrusion that socialists are famous for.

"“We have already seen an entire generation of children left behind,” said Layton.", referring to national day care.

This statement is bull shit. I didn't go to child care, my mother raised me thanks. And the person I know who runs a daycare out of her house does a great job, and those children aren’t left behind. It is simply ridicules and it is really a power grad by socialists who believe only the state can only raise children.

The federal government has no business in education, and they know it, Canadians don't, but ignorance isn't an excuse for the law.

If you really believe that the NDP are running on platforms of leanness, tax reduction less socialism, more freedom and a clear understanding of provincial powers, you should seriously consider doing the PR writing for these ppl, because they sure as hell are giving the opposite impression with voters.

The NDP do not do the things I want to see done.

If they do start to do them, then I will canvas for them in the next election, deal?
But I know they won't do what I want

But you want to do away with government. The watchdog agencies have already been cut to the point where they can't fulfill their mandates.

I don't want to do away with government, it is a necessary evil. And your right the watchdog agencies have been cut, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the feds are to busy meddling around in things like healthcare and education, rather then doing their jobs? If the Feds would only concentrate on their own powers, I wouldn't have a problem with the half of it; we wouldn't be having this conversation, because we wouldn't be affected by each others provincial government.

If the Manitoba Government wishes to run every little thing there, that’s their and your business, Ontario is mine. Let’s tell the feds to stay out of provincial jurisdiction...but I doubt you agree with that idea.

And yet you support the Conservatives, who are attacking the constitution and trying to control who marries who.

It's one issue, and I'm sure you don't agree with everything the NDP does at every moment. But to clarify the position, they are arguing about definitions, not rights.

Why, because you don't like their programs? You'd rather have Harper spending it on some morality squad?

I don't like many "programs' I don't need to be programmed. I don't want Harper spending it either as he shouldn't have it to spend!!

"] But that's all they had in common. It is highly unlikely that the Conservatives will win a single seat in Quebec with Harper, or anybody else from that part of the party, as leader. It is also highly unlikely that they will make a serious inroads into Ontario.

Perhaps your right, but a good leader form Ontario could go along way...

Well, I wouldn't want you to have spend any of your hard-earned money.

That’s OK I don't have any to spend anyways, the government took it.

The PCs became regressive instead of progressive under Mulroney, but the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives are way beyond regressive. They are basically a bunch of back-woods hillbillies who want Canada to be a mini-me of the US.

For one this progressive shit is stupid anyways. It merely implies the PCs are becoming the new Liberals. To the left progressive means “the right becoming more like we are" and I don't want that so called progress, it can go to hell with the rest of the country. I suppose that not following the constitution, huge tax burdens, and extremely large debts for our country are what socialists call progress, but I don't. And as for wanting to be the mini-me of the USA...well its clear the left wants to be a mini-me of Europe or the USSR.

With over 50% of Canadian children in some sort of daycare, a national daycare program is going to bring in a lot more votes than it loses. Again, you are out of step with the Canadian people.

Oh I don't doubt the sheep of Canada are going to vote for this, but that doesn’t make it legal. It's vote buying plain and simple. Leave my children alone! What’s so hard to understand about that?

Once again if the feds were doing their jobs instead of everyone else’s.......

They made Canadians feel positive about their country again.

They lied to get power as the left often does, and I clearly remember all the wining and bitching about cuts to spending......Were you in a different country when that happened?

 

[Jay]

Harper's ideology is the problem, JJ. Are you saying you share that ideology? If Miguel Figueroa became the leader of the NDP, I'd certainly take my vote elsewhere.

I wanted to share with you the warm fuzzy feeling I get when you call me JJ. In order to do that I need a pet name for you, and Reverend Dear is it, until you stop calling me JJ.

I vote right, if Harper is the leader of the right, then what alternative do I have but to vote for him, I don't have (nor do I want) two right parties, I want strong leadership if I can get it. I can't vote left, and the reasons are clear. I do not belong to the swing vote category, and my vote cannot be bought.

No, any American who has enough money and whose Daddy made enough Supreme Court appointments can become president.

And how do Clinton and Carter fit into this distorted picture? I don't believe it for a minute. This is just your hate for the right showing through, again :roll:

No actually, it doesn't. It shows that some people in politics are corrupt. It points to those having ties to business being more likely to be corrupt than those without such ties.

All the politicians have ties to business. Unless the left killed off all the business in the riding.

I've sent them money, I've donated my time. I've partaken in the political process. Apparently you not only haven't done that, but feel that it's somehow beneath you.

I partake in the process, I'm doing it right now and I vote.
I applaud your extra involvement in politics, I just don’t have time at the moment, its not that it is beneath me, because In the future I feel I'm going to have too. But I'm not giving them a nickel more until the bastards stop ripping me off.

I do mean that I applaud your giving more for your causes. it is respectable.

No, the corporations just buy the government and tell them what laws to write. It's all above board and legal, so you seem to feel that's okay.

Well I expect corporations to have a say, and I highly doubt that would change under the NDP, the corporations will still have a say either way. One, they will lobby the government, or as I suspect will happen under the NDP, they will have a say with their feet, and leave, and I will loose my non-government job.

What the hell do you think they mean when they spew all that pro-business rhetoric?

I think they have pro-business rhetoric, because it has a stabilizing effect. People understand their will be jobs, and corporations feel the climate is right to do business in Canada. This is why the NDP will not be voted in, we don't trust them. The have anti- wealth and anti-corporation rhetoric, but in their defense, at least their honest.

We already have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world, JJ. Look it up.

And the NDP would change that in a quick hurry, and the company I work for would have to lay ppl off, they would need to go on assistance.

We need less government. If the tax burden has been moved to the working classes, then I feel even more justified in my wanting a fiscally responsible conservative government who will run on platforms of leanness, tax reduction, less socialism, more freedom, with a clear understanding of provincial powers.

then.....

So you'll be joining the NDP then?

Not unless they have decided to become a right wing party that does what I said I wanted. So for fun I went to their web page, and boom the first thing you see, is that they have no respect for provincial powers. They want to "cut tuition fees" and further study of their page reveals more provincial intrusion that socialists are famous for.

"“We have already seen an entire generation of children left behind,” said Layton.", referring to national day care.

This statement is bull shit. I didn't go to child care, my mother raised me thanks. And the person I know who runs a daycare out of her house does a great job, and those children aren’t left behind. It is simply ridicules and it is really a power grad by socialists who believe only the state can only raise children.

The federal government has no business in education, and they know it, Canadians don't, but ignorance isn't an excuse for the law.

If you really believe that the NDP are running on platforms of leanness, tax reduction less socialism, more freedom and a clear understanding of provincial powers, you should seriously consider doing the PR writing for these ppl, because they sure as hell are giving the opposite impression with voters.

The NDP do not do the things I want to see done.

If they do start to do them, then I will canvas for them in the next election, deal?
But I know they won't do what I want

But you want to do away with government. The watchdog agencies have already been cut to the point where they can't fulfill their mandates.

I don't want to do away with government, it is a necessary evil. And your right the watchdog agencies have been cut, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the feds are to busy meddling around in things like healthcare and education, rather then doing their jobs? If the Feds would only concentrate on their own powers, I wouldn't have a problem with the half of it; we wouldn't be having this conversation, because we wouldn't be affected by each others provincial government.

If the Manitoba Government wishes to run every little thing there, that’s their and your business, Ontario is mine. Let’s tell the feds to stay out of provincial jurisdiction...but I doubt you agree with that idea.

And yet you support the Conservatives, who are attacking the constitution and trying to control who marries who.

It's one issue, and I'm sure you don't agree with everything the NDP does at every moment. But to clarify the position, they are arguing about definitions, not rights.

Why, because you don't like their programs? You'd rather have Harper spending it on some morality squad?

I don't like many "programs' I don't need to be programmed. I don't want Harper spending it either as he shouldn't have it to spend!!

"] But that's all they had in common. It is highly unlikely that the Conservatives will win a single seat in Quebec with Harper, or anybody else from that part of the party, as leader. It is also highly unlikely that they will make a serious inroads into Ontario.

Perhaps your right, but a good leader form Ontario could go along way...

Well, I wouldn't want you to have spend any of your hard-earned money.

That’s OK I don't have any to spend anyways, the government took it.

The PCs became regressive instead of progressive under Mulroney, but the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives are way beyond regressive. They are basically a bunch of back-woods hillbillies who want Canada to be a mini-me of the US.

For one this progressive shit is stupid anyways. It merely implies the PCs are becoming the new Liberals. To the left progressive means “the right becoming more like we are" and I don't want that so called progress, it can go to hell with the rest of the country. I suppose that not following the constitution, huge tax burdens, and extremely large debts for our country are what socialists call progress, but I don't. And as for wanting to be the mini-me of the USA...well its clear the left wants to be a mini-me of Europe or the USSR.

With over 50% of Canadian children in some sort of daycare, a national daycare program is going to bring in a lot more votes than it loses. Again, you are out of step with the Canadian people.

Oh I don't doubt the sheep of Canada are going to vote for this, but that doesn’t make it legal. It's vote buying plain and simple. Leave my children alone! What’s so hard to understand about that?

Once again if the feds were doing their jobs instead of everyone else’s.......

They made Canadians feel positive about their country again.

They lied to get power as the left often does, and I clearly remember all the wining and bitching about cuts to spending......Were you in a different country when that happened?

 

[Jay]

Harper's ideology is the problem, JJ. Are you saying you share that ideology? If Miguel Figueroa became the leader of the NDP, I'd certainly take my vote elsewhere.

I wanted to share with you the warm fuzzy feeling I get when you call me JJ. In order to do that I need a pet name for you, and Reverend Dear is it, until you stop calling me JJ.

I vote right, if Harper is the leader of the right, then what alternative do I have but to vote for him, I don't have (nor do I want) two right parties, I want strong leadership if I can get it. I can't vote left, and the reasons are clear. I do not belong to the swing vote category, and my vote cannot be bought.

No, any American who has enough money and whose Daddy made enough Supreme Court appointments can become president.

And how do Clinton and Carter fit into this distorted picture? I don't believe it for a minute. This is just your hate for the right showing through, again :roll:

No actually, it doesn't. It shows that some people in politics are corrupt. It points to those having ties to business being more likely to be corrupt than those without such ties.

All the politicians have ties to business. Unless the left killed off all the business in the riding.

I've sent them money, I've donated my time. I've partaken in the political process. Apparently you not only haven't done that, but feel that it's somehow beneath you.

I partake in the process, I'm doing it right now and I vote.
I applaud your extra involvement in politics, I just don’t have time at the moment, its not that it is beneath me, because In the future I feel I'm going to have too. But I'm not giving them a nickel more until the bastards stop ripping me off.

I do mean that I applaud your giving more for your causes. it is respectable.

No, the corporations just buy the government and tell them what laws to write. It's all above board and legal, so you seem to feel that's okay.

Well I expect corporations to have a say, and I highly doubt that would change under the NDP, the corporations will still have a say either way. One, they will lobby the government, or as I suspect will happen under the NDP, they will have a say with their feet, and leave, and I will loose my non-government job.

What the hell do you think they mean when they spew all that pro-business rhetoric?

I think they have pro-business rhetoric, because it has a stabilizing effect. People understand their will be jobs, and corporations feel the climate is right to do business in Canada. This is why the NDP will not be voted in, we don't trust them. The have anti- wealth and anti-corporation rhetoric, but in their defense, at least their honest.

We already have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world, JJ. Look it up.

And the NDP would change that in a quick hurry, and the company I work for would have to lay ppl off, they would need to go on assistance.

We need less government. If the tax burden has been moved to the working classes, then I feel even more justified in my wanting a fiscally responsible conservative government who will run on platforms of leanness, tax reduction, less socialism, more freedom, with a clear understanding of provincial powers.

then.....

So you'll be joining the NDP then?

Not unless they have decided to become a right wing party that does what I said I wanted. So for fun I went to their web page, and boom the first thing you see, is that they have no respect for provincial powers. They want to "cut tuition fees" and further study of their page reveals more provincial intrusion that socialists are famous for.

"“We have already seen an entire generation of children left behind,” said Layton.", referring to national day care.

This statement is bull shit. I didn't go to child care, my mother raised me thanks. And the person I know who runs a daycare out of her house does a great job, and those children aren’t left behind. It is simply ridicules and it is really a power grad by socialists who believe only the state can only raise children.

The federal government has no business in education, and they know it, Canadians don't, but ignorance isn't an excuse for the law.

If you really believe that the NDP are running on platforms of leanness, tax reduction less socialism, more freedom and a clear understanding of provincial powers, you should seriously consider doing the PR writing for these ppl, because they sure as hell are giving the opposite impression with voters.

The NDP do not do the things I want to see done.

If they do start to do them, then I will canvas for them in the next election, deal?
But I know they won't do what I want

But you want to do away with government. The watchdog agencies have already been cut to the point where they can't fulfill their mandates.

I don't want to do away with government, it is a necessary evil. And your right the watchdog agencies have been cut, I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the feds are to busy meddling around in things like healthcare and education, rather then doing their jobs? If the Feds would only concentrate on their own powers, I wouldn't have a problem with the half of it; we wouldn't be having this conversation, because we wouldn't be affected by each others provincial government.

If the Manitoba Government wishes to run every little thing there, that’s their and your business, Ontario is mine. Let’s tell the feds to stay out of provincial jurisdiction...but I doubt you agree with that idea.

And yet you support the Conservatives, who are attacking the constitution and trying to control who marries who.

It's one issue, and I'm sure you don't agree with everything the NDP does at every moment. But to clarify the position, they are arguing about definitions, not rights.

Why, because you don't like their programs? You'd rather have Harper spending it on some morality squad?

I don't like many "programs' I don't need to be programmed. I don't want Harper spending it either as he shouldn't have it to spend!!

"] But that's all they had in common. It is highly unlikely that the Conservatives will win a single seat in Quebec with Harper, or anybody else from that part of the party, as leader. It is also highly unlikely that they will make a serious inroads into Ontario.

Perhaps your right, but a good leader form Ontario could go along way...

Well, I wouldn't want you to have spend any of your hard-earned money.

That’s OK I don't have any to spend anyways, the government took it.

The PCs became regressive instead of progressive under Mulroney, but the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives are way beyond regressive. They are basically a bunch of back-woods hillbillies who want Canada to be a mini-me of the US.

For one this progressive shit is stupid anyways. It merely implies the PCs are becoming the new Liberals. To the left progressive means “the right becoming more like we are" and I don't want that so called progress, it can go to hell with the rest of the country. I suppose that not following the constitution, huge tax burdens, and extremely large debts for our country are what socialists call progress, but I don't. And as for wanting to be the mini-me of the USA...well its clear the left wants to be a mini-me of Europe or the USSR.

With over 50% of Canadian children in some sort of daycare, a national daycare program is going to bring in a lot more votes than it loses. Again, you are out of step with the Canadian people.

Oh I don't doubt the sheep of Canada are going to vote for this, but that doesn’t make it legal. It's vote buying plain and simple. Leave my children alone! What’s so hard to understand about that?

Once again if the feds were doing their jobs instead of everyone else’s.......

They made Canadians feel positive about their country again.

They lied to get power as the left often does, and I clearly remember all the wining and bitching about cuts to spending......Were you in a different country when that happened?