Sponsorship Program - Will of the People paid for?

[Jay]

"The corporations would do the same thing to the NDP as was done with Castro for half a century.”

No one believes they would actually get power; no one trusts them, but a split left vote sounds good....


"It is time to storm Parliament Hill"

I'm with you there.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Chretien just booted Gomery right in old golf bag. Nailed Mulroney while he was at it too. It was a beautiful piece of politics.

Remember Gomery yarkin' about how Chretien giving away golf balls with his name on them was "small-town cheap"? Chretien brought some balls with him. Two George Bushes, one Bill Clinton, one Al Gore, one from the President of the Phillipines and the best part...one from the law firm that Gomery, Gomery's wife, and Brian Mulroney all have ties too.

Chretien grinned a little when he showed that one off and said something about "Westmount cheap" being an oxymoron. He made Gomery look like a moron and made a point about Gomery having a bias at the same time.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people. He appears to have learned science by watching the Flintstones. He was also involved ina scandal or two back when he was in the Alberta government. Threatening lawyers, then getting the people of Alberta to pay the resulting legal bill.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.

This is real life now, tibear...not some right-wing wet dream. I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him. It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.

And the Conservatives would change that how? There were more scandals under Mulroney than there have been under Chretien and Martin.

I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.

That and they run from the left, then govern from the right.

And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.

All indications are that the right is splitting up again, Jay. the insane lack of respect that Harper and crew have for rights and liberties has driven the wedge created by their hostile takeover of the PCs a little deeper.

I don't like Chretien much at all, and I can't stand Martin, but Harper and henchmen are being made to look like clowns on this. They are rank amateurs who tried to make a big scandal out of a small scandal that was already being dealt with. They did it to score cheap political points but the only places it's having an effect are Quebec, where the BQ were going to do well anyway; and traditional conservative strongholds where the Liberals didn;t have a shot to begin with.

In the meantime they've forgotten that their job as official opposition is to raise real issues. They aren't bright enough to do that. The next election, which could happen after the next budget, the Conservatives will likely lose 3 or 4 seats. The Liberals will likely pick up 2 or 3 of those.

This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Chretien just booted Gomery right in old golf bag. Nailed Mulroney while he was at it too. It was a beautiful piece of politics.

Remember Gomery yarkin' about how Chretien giving away golf balls with his name on them was "small-town cheap"? Chretien brought some balls with him. Two George Bushes, one Bill Clinton, one Al Gore, one from the President of the Phillipines and the best part...one from the law firm that Gomery, Gomery's wife, and Brian Mulroney all have ties too.

Chretien grinned a little when he showed that one off and said something about "Westmount cheap" being an oxymoron. He made Gomery look like a moron and made a point about Gomery having a bias at the same time.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people. He appears to have learned science by watching the Flintstones. He was also involved ina scandal or two back when he was in the Alberta government. Threatening lawyers, then getting the people of Alberta to pay the resulting legal bill.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.

This is real life now, tibear...not some right-wing wet dream. I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him. It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.

And the Conservatives would change that how? There were more scandals under Mulroney than there have been under Chretien and Martin.

I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.

That and they run from the left, then govern from the right.

And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.

All indications are that the right is splitting up again, Jay. the insane lack of respect that Harper and crew have for rights and liberties has driven the wedge created by their hostile takeover of the PCs a little deeper.

I don't like Chretien much at all, and I can't stand Martin, but Harper and henchmen are being made to look like clowns on this. They are rank amateurs who tried to make a big scandal out of a small scandal that was already being dealt with. They did it to score cheap political points but the only places it's having an effect are Quebec, where the BQ were going to do well anyway; and traditional conservative strongholds where the Liberals didn;t have a shot to begin with.

In the meantime they've forgotten that their job as official opposition is to raise real issues. They aren't bright enough to do that. The next election, which could happen after the next budget, the Conservatives will likely lose 3 or 4 seats. The Liberals will likely pick up 2 or 3 of those.

This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Chretien just booted Gomery right in old golf bag. Nailed Mulroney while he was at it too. It was a beautiful piece of politics.

Remember Gomery yarkin' about how Chretien giving away golf balls with his name on them was "small-town cheap"? Chretien brought some balls with him. Two George Bushes, one Bill Clinton, one Al Gore, one from the President of the Phillipines and the best part...one from the law firm that Gomery, Gomery's wife, and Brian Mulroney all have ties too.

Chretien grinned a little when he showed that one off and said something about "Westmount cheap" being an oxymoron. He made Gomery look like a moron and made a point about Gomery having a bias at the same time.

I hate negative campaigning but how can you argue with the success that the Liberals have had over the last 12+ years. I hope is that the public starts to vote on the issues rather then the Liberal perception of what the Conversatives stand for.

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people. He appears to have learned science by watching the Flintstones. He was also involved ina scandal or two back when he was in the Alberta government. Threatening lawyers, then getting the people of Alberta to pay the resulting legal bill.

If you think for one minute that Chretien (and Martin) didn't know what was going on, which has been their contention all along. Then, I'm sorry but your an idiot.

This is real life now, tibear...not some right-wing wet dream. I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him. It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

"Improper Spending of federal funds, and improper influence over a democratic vote? "

I thought this was the norm in Canada.

We have made a legacy of wasting money and vote buying for some time now.

And the Conservatives would change that how? There were more scandals under Mulroney than there have been under Chretien and Martin.

I think the liberals have been in power because Canadians remember what it was like under Mulroney.

That and they run from the left, then govern from the right.

And the split in the conservative vote didn't help either, but that’s going to change, as we start to unite righties, and we see less and less lefties voting for Liberals and more for NDP.

All indications are that the right is splitting up again, Jay. the insane lack of respect that Harper and crew have for rights and liberties has driven the wedge created by their hostile takeover of the PCs a little deeper.

I don't like Chretien much at all, and I can't stand Martin, but Harper and henchmen are being made to look like clowns on this. They are rank amateurs who tried to make a big scandal out of a small scandal that was already being dealt with. They did it to score cheap political points but the only places it's having an effect are Quebec, where the BQ were going to do well anyway; and traditional conservative strongholds where the Liberals didn;t have a shot to begin with.

In the meantime they've forgotten that their job as official opposition is to raise real issues. They aren't bright enough to do that. The next election, which could happen after the next budget, the Conservatives will likely lose 3 or 4 seats. The Liberals will likely pick up 2 or 3 of those.

This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay.

 

[Karlin]

Re: Sponsorship Program - manipulation of free will

"Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave. Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people"

Belinda Stronach will swoop in on a flying carpet and take the CP of Canada away from the religious factions and return it to Big Business - The Babe of Big Business Brings Back the Bacon!!

If the Sponsorship debacle knocks the Libs back, whats next for the NDP? They never get in because industry lobby types won't be happy with them in power. So thats who I vote for - we have to take back our power and stop giving the world to industry - weapons, cars, oil, and WAR seem to be their holy grail, whereas the NDP might put crop circles there. Jack Layton represents all those on the outside of the mainstream, and we are a growing number.

I still say the sponsorship program is high crime because it was trying to subvert the free will of the people. Darn right the country was in peril, and we love that it can be, because that is a sign of freedom. If majority of Quebecors feel this way, we need to let them go to their "self-determined destiny". How else can feel free? Coersive financial manipulation is NOT freedom, it is undemocratic.

Quebecers with influence on the separatist question were given a lot of taxpayer money. Chretien and Martin deserve to go to jail for that, treason the charge.

Karlin

 

[Karlin]

Re: Sponsorship Program - manipulation of free will

"Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave. Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people"

Belinda Stronach will swoop in on a flying carpet and take the CP of Canada away from the religious factions and return it to Big Business - The Babe of Big Business Brings Back the Bacon!!

If the Sponsorship debacle knocks the Libs back, whats next for the NDP? They never get in because industry lobby types won't be happy with them in power. So thats who I vote for - we have to take back our power and stop giving the world to industry - weapons, cars, oil, and WAR seem to be their holy grail, whereas the NDP might put crop circles there. Jack Layton represents all those on the outside of the mainstream, and we are a growing number.

I still say the sponsorship program is high crime because it was trying to subvert the free will of the people. Darn right the country was in peril, and we love that it can be, because that is a sign of freedom. If majority of Quebecors feel this way, we need to let them go to their "self-determined destiny". How else can feel free? Coersive financial manipulation is NOT freedom, it is undemocratic.

Quebecers with influence on the separatist question were given a lot of taxpayer money. Chretien and Martin deserve to go to jail for that, treason the charge.

Karlin

 

[Karlin]

Re: Sponsorship Program - manipulation of free will

"Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave. Before Harper they had Stockwell Day. The man actually believes that dinosaurs walked the earth as the same time as people"

Belinda Stronach will swoop in on a flying carpet and take the CP of Canada away from the religious factions and return it to Big Business - The Babe of Big Business Brings Back the Bacon!!

If the Sponsorship debacle knocks the Libs back, whats next for the NDP? They never get in because industry lobby types won't be happy with them in power. So thats who I vote for - we have to take back our power and stop giving the world to industry - weapons, cars, oil, and WAR seem to be their holy grail, whereas the NDP might put crop circles there. Jack Layton represents all those on the outside of the mainstream, and we are a growing number.

I still say the sponsorship program is high crime because it was trying to subvert the free will of the people. Darn right the country was in peril, and we love that it can be, because that is a sign of freedom. If majority of Quebecors feel this way, we need to let them go to their "self-determined destiny". How else can feel free? Coersive financial manipulation is NOT freedom, it is undemocratic.

Quebecers with influence on the separatist question were given a lot of taxpayer money. Chretien and Martin deserve to go to jail for that, treason the charge.

Karlin

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Sponsorship Program -

I back the NDP too, Karlin. Last election I was putting up signs in my mother's riding in Saskatchewan. It was like the good old days, except Nystrom lost.

I don't think Stronach or anybody else is going to take the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives away from the radical right. I think that the moderate and progressive conservatives will end up in the Progressive Canadian Party and there will be a power struggle there between Stronach and Orchard. The Reform/Alliance/Conservatives will return to being a western rump party and the BQ will return to being the official opposition.

Where does that leave the NDP? Slowly growing. They'll likely get back two seats in Saskatchewan and a couple in BC in the next election. Canadians are shifting to the left according to all of the polls but so far the Liberals have reaped the benefits of that for the most part.

Martin has really just been dealing with Chretien's issues from his last term though. Not just sponsorship, but SSM and pot. That's given Martin a chance to look cool on social issues. Those issues will be over and done with by the time the snow melts though.

Martin will be staring at issues like BMD, sending soldiers to Iraq (actually Jordan now, but that's just semantics), and deep integration with the US. You know how popular those issues...even half the Liberal Party won't back him on those.

Oh, and would you look at that. I just got a bulletin from HRW and Lloyd Axworthy is whipping Martin like a cheap hound over the Tamil Tiger issue.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Sponsorship Program -

I back the NDP too, Karlin. Last election I was putting up signs in my mother's riding in Saskatchewan. It was like the good old days, except Nystrom lost.

I don't think Stronach or anybody else is going to take the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives away from the radical right. I think that the moderate and progressive conservatives will end up in the Progressive Canadian Party and there will be a power struggle there between Stronach and Orchard. The Reform/Alliance/Conservatives will return to being a western rump party and the BQ will return to being the official opposition.

Where does that leave the NDP? Slowly growing. They'll likely get back two seats in Saskatchewan and a couple in BC in the next election. Canadians are shifting to the left according to all of the polls but so far the Liberals have reaped the benefits of that for the most part.

Martin has really just been dealing with Chretien's issues from his last term though. Not just sponsorship, but SSM and pot. That's given Martin a chance to look cool on social issues. Those issues will be over and done with by the time the snow melts though.

Martin will be staring at issues like BMD, sending soldiers to Iraq (actually Jordan now, but that's just semantics), and deep integration with the US. You know how popular those issues...even half the Liberal Party won't back him on those.

Oh, and would you look at that. I just got a bulletin from HRW and Lloyd Axworthy is whipping Martin like a cheap hound over the Tamil Tiger issue.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Sponsorship Program -

I back the NDP too, Karlin. Last election I was putting up signs in my mother's riding in Saskatchewan. It was like the good old days, except Nystrom lost.

I don't think Stronach or anybody else is going to take the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives away from the radical right. I think that the moderate and progressive conservatives will end up in the Progressive Canadian Party and there will be a power struggle there between Stronach and Orchard. The Reform/Alliance/Conservatives will return to being a western rump party and the BQ will return to being the official opposition.

Where does that leave the NDP? Slowly growing. They'll likely get back two seats in Saskatchewan and a couple in BC in the next election. Canadians are shifting to the left according to all of the polls but so far the Liberals have reaped the benefits of that for the most part.

Martin has really just been dealing with Chretien's issues from his last term though. Not just sponsorship, but SSM and pot. That's given Martin a chance to look cool on social issues. Those issues will be over and done with by the time the snow melts though.

Martin will be staring at issues like BMD, sending soldiers to Iraq (actually Jordan now, but that's just semantics), and deep integration with the US. You know how popular those issues...even half the Liberal Party won't back him on those.

Oh, and would you look at that. I just got a bulletin from HRW and Lloyd Axworthy is whipping Martin like a cheap hound over the Tamil Tiger issue.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him.

I partially agree with you. He was very smug and arrogant, knowing that he is going to stand behind the "I didn't know the details". I don't believe he was answering honestly. How can he claim not to know about a very good friend of his who complained that he didn't get paid for Liberal campaign signs and then suddenly got millions from the sponsorship program.(They had documentation to prove all of these.)

Liberals are a bunch of crooks. In todays political environment, I don't think that any politician can be trusted(Liberal, PC, BQ, NDP, ...). Given a chance I truly believe that most politicians would be "on the take". Its almost gotten to the point that we expect our politician to be guilty about skimming in one way or another. Really a sad commentary on our so called "leaders".

Chretien's golf ball "bit" showed his true character, he sat their and basically spit in Gomery's face and laughed while doing it. How would you feel if a defendant did this in a "real" courtroom?? Shouldn't Chretien show respect to the chair? At least while he is on the stand??

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

Again, from your perspective. Remember the child pornography case from BC, would you say that was an attack on minority rights and the Charter or protecting people?? The Conservative party believes it is protecting the traditional Canadian family, I know you don't agree. As for which platform was least fiscally responsible, again this is debatable an depends on your perspective. However, even saying that I think we will all agree that the the NDP's platform is always the least fiscally responsible because they know they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of gaining power.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

There are always people who complain when a large group takes over a smaller group. In this case the vast majority of people come from the old Alliance party and thus have the majority of the positions which some of the old conservative guard don't like because they got a demotion. It has nothing to do with policy but rather their political position within the party. It would be like Quebec merging with PEI and the people in PEI complaining that the Quebec majority is dominating all of the positions and making decisions that suit the majority of Quebecers.

It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

He also had an investigation in the RCMP actions during the pepperspraying incident in BC. Do you think that the PM's office didn't have direct orders into the RCMP as to what to do? You believe that Chretien didn't know what was going on? Being a NDP supporter I would have to believe that you didn't like the RCMP actions that day. And yet they had an investigation and SURPRISE, SURPRISE they found no interference from the PMO. Unbelievable.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him.

I partially agree with you. He was very smug and arrogant, knowing that he is going to stand behind the "I didn't know the details". I don't believe he was answering honestly. How can he claim not to know about a very good friend of his who complained that he didn't get paid for Liberal campaign signs and then suddenly got millions from the sponsorship program.(They had documentation to prove all of these.)

Liberals are a bunch of crooks. In todays political environment, I don't think that any politician can be trusted(Liberal, PC, BQ, NDP, ...). Given a chance I truly believe that most politicians would be "on the take". Its almost gotten to the point that we expect our politician to be guilty about skimming in one way or another. Really a sad commentary on our so called "leaders".

Chretien's golf ball "bit" showed his true character, he sat their and basically spit in Gomery's face and laughed while doing it. How would you feel if a defendant did this in a "real" courtroom?? Shouldn't Chretien show respect to the chair? At least while he is on the stand??

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

Again, from your perspective. Remember the child pornography case from BC, would you say that was an attack on minority rights and the Charter or protecting people?? The Conservative party believes it is protecting the traditional Canadian family, I know you don't agree. As for which platform was least fiscally responsible, again this is debatable an depends on your perspective. However, even saying that I think we will all agree that the the NDP's platform is always the least fiscally responsible because they know they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of gaining power.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

There are always people who complain when a large group takes over a smaller group. In this case the vast majority of people come from the old Alliance party and thus have the majority of the positions which some of the old conservative guard don't like because they got a demotion. It has nothing to do with policy but rather their political position within the party. It would be like Quebec merging with PEI and the people in PEI complaining that the Quebec majority is dominating all of the positions and making decisions that suit the majority of Quebecers.

It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

He also had an investigation in the RCMP actions during the pepperspraying incident in BC. Do you think that the PM's office didn't have direct orders into the RCMP as to what to do? You believe that Chretien didn't know what was going on? Being a NDP supporter I would have to believe that you didn't like the RCMP actions that day. And yet they had an investigation and SURPRISE, SURPRISE they found no interference from the PMO. Unbelievable.

 

[tibear]

RB,

I watched Chretien today. He appeared to be answering honestly and, more importantly, appeared to know damned well that nobody has anything on him.

I partially agree with you. He was very smug and arrogant, knowing that he is going to stand behind the "I didn't know the details". I don't believe he was answering honestly. How can he claim not to know about a very good friend of his who complained that he didn't get paid for Liberal campaign signs and then suddenly got millions from the sponsorship program.(They had documentation to prove all of these.)

Liberals are a bunch of crooks. In todays political environment, I don't think that any politician can be trusted(Liberal, PC, BQ, NDP, ...). Given a chance I truly believe that most politicians would be "on the take". Its almost gotten to the point that we expect our politician to be guilty about skimming in one way or another. Really a sad commentary on our so called "leaders".

Chretien's golf ball "bit" showed his true character, he sat their and basically spit in Gomery's face and laughed while doing it. How would you feel if a defendant did this in a "real" courtroom?? Shouldn't Chretien show respect to the chair? At least while he is on the stand??

It isn't the Liberal perception, it is what the Conservatives are. Their present leader is attacking minority rights and the Charter. During the last election his platform was largely considered to be the least fiscally responsible.

Again, from your perspective. Remember the child pornography case from BC, would you say that was an attack on minority rights and the Charter or protecting people?? The Conservative party believes it is protecting the traditional Canadian family, I know you don't agree. As for which platform was least fiscally responsible, again this is debatable an depends on your perspective. However, even saying that I think we will all agree that the the NDP's platform is always the least fiscally responsible because they know they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of gaining power.

The "merger" of the PCs and the Alliance was seen by most as being a hostile takeover, with dirty tricks and backroom deals being the order of the day. The PC part of the Conservative Party is still complaining that they are being pushed to the side. Many of them have said they will vote against Harper at the upcoming convention. Some have said that if he remains the leader, they will leave.

There are always people who complain when a large group takes over a smaller group. In this case the vast majority of people come from the old Alliance party and thus have the majority of the positions which some of the old conservative guard don't like because they got a demotion. It has nothing to do with policy but rather their political position within the party. It would be like Quebec merging with PEI and the people in PEI complaining that the Quebec majority is dominating all of the positions and making decisions that suit the majority of Quebecers.

It isn't illegal or crooked to institute a policy. He doesn't deny that money was stolen, in fact he had the RCMP investigating this back in 2000.

He also had an investigation in the RCMP actions during the pepperspraying incident in BC. Do you think that the PM's office didn't have direct orders into the RCMP as to what to do? You believe that Chretien didn't know what was going on? Being a NDP supporter I would have to believe that you didn't like the RCMP actions that day. And yet they had an investigation and SURPRISE, SURPRISE they found no interference from the PMO. Unbelievable.

 

[jackd]

Did the liberal actually "bought" votes for the NO side in Quebec. i.e. paying some voters to change their vote from Yes to NO? Probaly not or at least, no to a big extend.
However, they (the liberals) broke the referendum laws of Quebec where both sides (Yes & No) had very strict regulations regarding the amount of money to be spent on the campain. The Feds. have injected and spent millions of $$$ to support the No side which, according to many was against the Quebec referendum law.
The massive sponsorship, advertizing, promotion programs, billboards, scare tactics usued by the Federal libs. was probably enough to swing the less than 30,000 votes missing on the OUi side.

 

[jackd]

Did the liberal actually "bought" votes for the NO side in Quebec. i.e. paying some voters to change their vote from Yes to NO? Probaly not or at least, no to a big extend.
However, they (the liberals) broke the referendum laws of Quebec where both sides (Yes & No) had very strict regulations regarding the amount of money to be spent on the campain. The Feds. have injected and spent millions of $$$ to support the No side which, according to many was against the Quebec referendum law.
The massive sponsorship, advertizing, promotion programs, billboards, scare tactics usued by the Federal libs. was probably enough to swing the less than 30,000 votes missing on the OUi side.

 

[jackd]

Did the liberal actually "bought" votes for the NO side in Quebec. i.e. paying some voters to change their vote from Yes to NO? Probaly not or at least, no to a big extend.
However, they (the liberals) broke the referendum laws of Quebec where both sides (Yes & No) had very strict regulations regarding the amount of money to be spent on the campain. The Feds. have injected and spent millions of $$$ to support the No side which, according to many was against the Quebec referendum law.
The massive sponsorship, advertizing, promotion programs, billboards, scare tactics usued by the Federal libs. was probably enough to swing the less than 30,000 votes missing on the OUi side.

 

[Jay]

"This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay."

No Rev its aithiest land where commies steal money from you and buy votes with it.

 

[Jay]

"This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay."

No Rev its aithiest land where commies steal money from you and buy votes with it.

 

[Jay]

"This isn't Jesusland where you can buy votes by inciting hatred, Jay."

No Rev its aithiest land where commies steal money from you and buy votes with it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Sponsorship Program -

How can he claim not to know about a very good friend of his who complained that he didn't get paid for Liberal campaign signs and then suddenly got millions from the sponsorship program.(They had documentation to prove all of these.)

They didn't have any documentation showing that he knew. It's even possible that he didn't know, actually. Do you understand how political campaigns work, tibear. Chretien doesn't sign cheques for lawn signs, that's handled by people within the party.

Do you understand how government works? Budgets are allocated, programs are set up, and then operations are carried out. The PM doesn't sit there micro-managing each part of each program.

Liberals are a bunch of crooks. In todays political environment, I don't think that any politician can be trusted(Liberal, PC, BQ, NDP, ...). Given a chance I truly believe that most politicians would be "on the take". Its almost gotten to the point that we expect our politician to be guilty about skimming in one way or another. Really a sad commentary on our so called "leaders".

Do you know what self-fulfilling prophecy is, tibear? Those of you on the right have been pushing the idea that all politicians are crooks that you are well on your way to creating just that. Private industry is certainly no less crooked than politics though...padded expense accounts, nepotism, the whole deal.

Chretien's golf ball "bit" showed his true character, he sat their and basically spit in Gomery's face and laughed while doing it. How would you feel if a defendant did this in a "real" courtroom?? Shouldn't Chretien show respect to the chair? At least while he is on the stand??

Chretien was sitting in front of a judge that had made prejudicial statements against him to the press. That judge's wife works for the same law firm as Brian Mulroney. The prosecutor is a decades-old political foe of Chretien who also used to work for Mulroney.

Forget about "real courtrooms", this thing has been an over-priced political farce since the start and has gone on for far too long and cost far too much. Chretien pointed that out, then he nailed Gomery for being an idiot.

Again, from your perspective. Remember the child pornography case from BC, would you say that was an attack on minority rights and the Charter or protecting people??

Not from my perspective. Remember the Conservative's ad saying that the Liberals support child porn. That was an outright lie and they knew it. Harper had them pull the ad, but he was never man enough to apologize for it.

That came about because the Liberals wouldn't support a poorly thought-out Alliance bill that would have defined century's-old pieces of art as child porn, and had parents arrested for taking pictures of their kids in the tub.

The bill was puritanical piece of crap based on religious extremism so it failed.

As for which platform was least fiscally responsible, again this is debatable an depends on your perspective. However, even saying that I think we will all agree that the the NDP's platform is always the least fiscally responsible because they know they don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of gaining power.

I'm going by what the economists said, tibear. Had you paid attention you would have found that most endorsed the NDP platform as being workable. You would have found that none without direct ties to the Conservatives endorsed Harper's platform.

There are always people who complain when a large group takes over a smaller group. In this case the vast majority of people come from the old Alliance party and thus have the majority of the positions which some of the old conservative guard don't like because they got a demotion. It has nothing to do with policy but rather their political position within the party.

Oh come on. Alliance members were taking out PC memberships so they could vote twice. What the hell is that? Besides being a crooked mess, I mean. What about the backroom deal between the weasel-faced boy and Harper? Was that the honest democratic process that Harper likes to pretend the Conservatives value?

He also had an investigation in the RCMP actions during the pepperspraying incident in BC. Do you think that the PM's office didn't have direct orders into the RCMP as to what to do? You believe that Chretien didn't know what was going on? Being a NDP supporter I would have to believe that you didn't like the RCMP actions that day. And yet they had an investigation and SURPRISE, SURPRISE they found no interference from the PMO. Unbelievable.

Actually the findings were that there was political interference from the PMO, but not from Chretien. The argument was that the RCMP would have acted the same way anyway. Given their growing reputation as jack-booted stormtroopers they likely would have too. Besides that, in the case of the pepperspraying incident it was not investigated by disinterested third party.

You are trying to change the subject because you are having trouble refuting facts again though. Since the RCMP had built enough of a case in the ad scandal to begin pressing charges and were only peripherally involved in the scandal itself it is quite a different matter.