Should we lock the Canadian Dollar with the U.S.?

theconqueror

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What about Canada's capabilities of "Hedging the Loonie" as suggested by most Finnancial Advisors in Canada? Or, do we oppose professional insight?


Here is how hedging works:

Suppose you’ve forecast your revenues to be US$5 million this year. And suppose you think the Canadian dollar will increase compared to the current value of US 82 cents and might go as high as 85 cents by the end of the year.

So you agree today to sell your bank US$5 million at the current rate of US82 cents later in the year. If the Canadian dollar goes above that, your revenues will still be worth what they are today.

Hedging slows the loss in purchasing power of your US-dollar revenues and gives you time to adjust to the higher exchange rate. Most importantly, hedging makes revenues and expenses stable and predictable, enabling management to make plans knowing it won’t have to change them if the dollar suddenly goes haywire.
Using forward contracts is not about betting on exchange rates; it’s about creating some certainty around future cash flows. By locking in a future exchange rate now, you lock in the margin you’ll earn on export business in the future.

Advisors News | Industry news | ADVISORS - Loonie's race toward parity proves value of hedging
 

SirJosephPorter

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That's why I'd mentioned 'exaggeration aside'. Of course the government cannot control it 100%. What it can do though is adopt policies to either inflate or deflate the currency back to its original targeted value. This way people know they can trust the government to maintain their hard earned cash in the long run.

Again, that is what government tries to do. But it cannot control inflation to better than 1 or 2%. any attempt to fine tune the economy more than that will almost inevitable lead to deflation, which will be disastrous for the economy.



I'm not aware of any either, but I'm sure some do, as politically suicidal a stance as it may be. Economics textbooks do talk about the pros and cons of inflation too, and the one I'd read (a school textbook) discussed, interestingly enough, mostly the psychological and political as opposed to the economic benefits of inflation, and also acknowledged the benefits of 0 inflation. Sure the author never took sides in the book, but the fact that the various stances were presented suggests that they are discussed by economists.

I can see stability in prices, not having to worry about shrinking size of your paycheck (due to inflation) as being something of an advantage. However, that will be much more than offset by a stagnant economy.

Accepting of course that if they decide to sit on their money it will water down, and so they are penalized for that action.

And perhaps rightly so. The money does not do anybody any good if it just sits on the side line. If invested, it helps the economy grow. As I mentioned before, there is no right in the constitution for somebody to keep their money hidden in a mattress and expect its value to hold.


Wrong. Inflation encourages growth, but growth can still occur in the absence of inflation.

It is very rare for growth to occur without a slight amount of inflation (1 to 2%).



Not necessarily. If a person wants a house, he'll pay to get it built. If the government taxes him and takes some of his money and then does not spend it, then he has less money to spend, yet since the government is not spending either, the construction company has no choice but to accept less money for the work it does.

The construction company has another choice. It may stop building the house altogether, it may be forced to close down (no profits due to falling prices). As a result, its employees will be out of jobs. If some of them are building houses currently for themselves, they will stop building houses. Then the company that was building those houses may be forced to close down, thus causing more unemployment. That is how deflation works, it is a vicious cycle.

Then again, with prices dropping, it would learn to live with that. So growth could still occur within the context of down-ward adjusted prices. Though I agree that long-term deflation is harmful, it is neither more nor less harmful than long-term inflation.

As i said before, it is extremely rare for growth to occur when there is deflation. Deflation is not conducive to growth, it simply helps retrenchment along the way. And long term deflation is harmful, so are you saying that short term deflation is not harmful? Exactly how do you prevent short term deflation from developing into a long term deflation?

Again, you are talking of balancing the economy on a knife edge. A little this way and that and it titters into an abyss.

Inflation encourages excessive consumption, a race against prices. Deflation encourages excessive savings in the hopes of dropping prices. Zero inflation over the long term ensures neither, with a more stable and balanced flow of spending and savings.

Sure inflation encourages excessive consumption. So does economic growth, should we ban economic growth as well? A small amount of inflation does not do any serious harm, and it is essential for the growth of the economy.

Not all rights are legal. Some are simply moral.

Moral rights re not absolute, they are a matter of opinion.

Get rid of minimum wages, and workers could accept temporary pay cuts instead of layoffs. And since costs would be dropping, they wouldn't mind it anyway.

Temporary pay cuts, really? And how do you stop temporary pay cuts from becoming permanent? And with deflation in addition to starvation wages (you mentioned costs dropping), pretty soon they will be completely out of jobs, thus not earning even starvation wages. We will be right back to the 30s.

And since deflation can always be countered by inflation, any deflation below the target rate would be a sure sign that inflation is coming round the corner as per government policy to maintain the target value of the currency.

Didn't you just say that any inflation was bad? So you want deflation, then you want government to pump money into the system to generate inflation to balance out that deflation. And you are not talking of balancing the economy on a knife edge? Do you really expect anybody to take this theory seriously?

And if deflation goes below target rate, how do you know that it can be brought back again and we won't have runaway deflation, leading to depression?

If workers have a legal say in the company, then they'll willingly accept pay cuts if the employer takes them too. And remember, in times of 0 inflation, salary increases won't be a major issue anyway. And if you improve education for all, then they are more valuable and so have more to offer their employer too, and thus more to negotiate with.

And what happens if the employer doesn't take the pay cut, but demands that workers take it ? And what if workers don't have a legal say in the company? I don't think you cna force the employers to give the workers a say in the company. I think it would be against the Charter.
 

SirJosephPorter

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The fact is, it is easier to control inflation than it is to control deflation. We know how to control inflation. If inflation is 5%, raise the interest rates to 6 or 7%, and inflation will disappear.

But we don’t know how to get rid of deflation. You can lower the interest rates, but once you have lowered them to zero and there is still deflation, what do you do? That is why it is always safer to operate at a slight inflation (1-2%). That leaves a margin for error. If we get things wrong (say, by increasing interest rates too much), we won’t slip into deflation, we will simply approach zero inflation. Then drop the interest rates slightly and we are back to 1-2% inflation.

But tittering around slight inflation and slight deflation is flirting with disaster. I don’t see any government in the world trying that.
 

Machjo

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The fact is, it is easier to control inflation than it is to control deflation. We know how to control inflation. If inflation is 5%, raise the interest rates to 6 or 7%, and inflation will disappear.

Decriminalize counterfeiting of the currency and we'd be out of deflation in no time flat. If I'm sure that with all it's printing presses the Bank of Canada could pull us out of a deflationary spiral into spiraling inflation within a month at most. Al it would have to do is put its printers to work at full throttle.

So how complicated is it really to fight deflation? I'd say the opposite, that while deflation is easy to counter, it's inflation we have to watch out for. Raising the interest rate is only a temporary solution since if it stays too high for too long, it merely trades inflation in for debt. The only long-term and sustainable means of fighting inflation is to actually physically take money out of the economy by raising taxes, reducing government spending, or both, neither of which is politically popular. Clearly politically speaking a government would face little resistance to printing its way out of deflation. So considering that fighting deflation is much, much easier than fighting inflation, it would make sense that if we mus err, we ought to err on the side of deflation. I agree that long-term deflation is equally as harmful as long-term inflation, but the difference is that it's also more easily cured. I'd rather suffer from an easily curable illness than a more difficult one to cure, all else being equal.


But we don’t know how to get rid of deflation.

Yes we do. Print more money and put it out into the economy either by paying off debt with it or spending it. How complicated is that?

You can lower the interest rates, but once you have lowered them to zero and there is still deflation, what do you do?

I fully agree that printing money ought always to be a last resort, and lowering the interest rate right down to zero should come first before we consider printing money. That way, if we do print too much, we have plenty of leeway when it comes to re-raising the Bank rate.

That said, if it ever came down to reducing the Bank rate to zero and we were still facing a deflationary spiral, the solution would be simple. Fire up the printing presses.

That is why it is always safer to operate at a slight inflation (1-2%).

I think I just proved you wrong. While it's not possible to control inflation completely, it would be possible to aim the currency at a certain value and deflate and inflate it as necessary to always bring it back to that level gradually over time. It would provide predictability.

That leaves a margin for error. If we get things wrong (say, by increasing interest rates too much), we won’t slip into deflation, we will simply approach zero inflation. Then drop the interest rates slightly and we are back to 1-2% inflation.

Falling into deflation after a bout of inflation can be a good thing as it brings the currency back to its original level. The same applies in reverse of course. But if we must err, then it's preferable to err on the side of deflation simply because deflation is so easy to fight (printing presses, remember).

But tittering around slight inflation and slight deflation is flirting with disaster. I don’t see any government in the world trying that.

It could spell political disaster for a government, but it would be good for long-term economic stability. It's well known that constant long-term inflation discourages saving.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Decriminalize counterfeiting of the currency and we'd be out of deflation in no time flat. If I'm sure that with all it's printing presses the Bank of Canada could pull us out of a deflationary spiral into spiraling inflation within a month at most. Al it would have to do is put its printers to work at full throttle.

I am not sure printing money will get you out of deflation. Deflation is more a state of mind. People are fearful of losing their jobs, so they cut back on spending, economize. That leads to a drop in demand, plant closures, more job losses and more retrenchment. It is a vicious cycle.

How is printing money by itself going to change peoples’ psychology? How is that going to stimulate demand?

It works better the other way. If there is inflation, you increase interest rates. That makes borrowing expensive, people borrow less. So they have less money to spend, resulting in a drop in prices, or at least slowing down of the price increases. This is again mob psychology. If people see that it will cost them to borrow more, they will borrow less.

The other way, however, is not that clear cut. Let us say interest rates are already close to zero. Then government starts printing money. How is that going to stimulate demand, cause people to spend? How is that going to cause people to borrow? They had deflation during the 30s depression, and FDR did precisely the same thing. And it worked, but it took years to work, it was a slow and painful process.

We have that one experience with deflation, and it was not pretty. That is why no government wants to get into deflation. Inflation is much easier to control, deflation is very difficult. A slight inflation is much better than the possibility of deflation.

Yes we do. Print more money and put it out into the economy either by paying off debt with it or spending it. How complicated is that?
As I explained, printing money by itself will not get you out of deflation (though that may be the only remedy available). FDR tried that in the 30s and it took years.

I think I just proved you wrong.
No you didn't.

It could spell political disaster for a government, but it would be good for long-term economic stability. It's well known that constant long-term inflation discourages saving.
OK, at least we are agreed on this one thing, no government in its right mind is going to flirt with deflation. According to me, for very good reason, they don't want to risk depression. According to you, that is because they are afraid of losing power.

But whatever the reason, no government is going to try it and the discussion is purely academic.
 

Machjo

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I am not sure printing money will get you out of deflation. Deflation is more a state of mind. People are fearful of losing their jobs, so they cut back on spending, economize. That leads to a drop in demand, plant closures, more job losses and more retrenchment. It is a vicious cycle.

I'm sure the government could print enough money to hire all of the unemployed, send them all to school, give them the money, or do whatever else it wants with it. There is no limit as to how much money the government can print beyond access to the paper, ink, printers, and workers to work the presses. We could match and even surpass the Weimar Republic within a month if we really set our minds to it. I'm sure a busy busy printing job would change people's minds quickly enough.

Now, since you have a habit of interpreting my ideas to their extremes, I'll clarify right here right now that no I'm not proposing that such inflationary printing would be a wise idea, but merely that in the event of a deflationary spiral, there would be nothing stopping the government from printing however much money it needs to to pull us out of that spiral.

Add to that that if the government should adopt a consistent policy of aiming the currency towards a pre-set value, and act on that policy, then the public would know from experience and a trust built in the predictability of successive governments that should the currency rise to above the target value, the government will take measures to inflate it back to its original value and vice versa. This trust that would be built through consistent government action would also prevent any deflation from getting out of control. Public education could help too. If people worry about a deflationary spiral, the government would merely need to educate them about the wonder of the printing presses and how easy it would be to print our way out of such a spiral.

How is printing money by itself going to change peoples’ psychology? How is that going to stimulate demand?

Of course I'm not suggesting that the government print the money and then put it under a pillow, but rather that they put it out into the economy by either paying off debt with it or spending it. Clearly putting more money into the economy will lower its value or at least slow down its rise. Are you telling me that if the government would print large amounts of money and put it into the economy that that would not at least slow down any deflationary trend?

It works better the other way. If there is inflation, you increase interest rates. That makes borrowing expensive, people borrow less. So they have less money to spend, resulting in a drop in prices, or at least slowing down of the price increases. This is again mob psychology. If people see that it will cost them to borrow more, they will borrow less.

And the government pays more interest on its borrowed money too. So then we're merely trading inflation in for debt. How does that improve anything in the long run?

The other way, however, is not that clear cut. Let us say interest rates are already close to zero. Then government starts printing money. How is that going to stimulate demand, cause people to spend? How is that going to cause people to borrow? They had deflation during the 30s depression, and FDR did precisely the same thing. And it worked, but it took years to work, it was a slow and painful process.

The US was also very cautious in printing money. We have more experience behind us now to know how much money we'd need to print. And again, if we do print too much, with interest rates down to zero, we wouldn't need to raise them by much to put the brakes on inflation. If we're experiencing inflation already along with high interest rates when recession hits, then we don't have much leeway but to inflate even more or raise interest rates even more in our bid to increase or decrease inflation.

We have that one experience with deflation, and it was not pretty. That is why no government wants to get into deflation. Inflation is much easier to control, deflation is very difficult. A slight inflation is much better than the possibility of deflation.

Most historical accounts of deflation and recession are not conclusive. There have been many cases of recession coupled with inflation or deflation coupled with growth. Though the two do influence each other to a degree, there are other factors to consider too. We can't simply conclude that we can always just inflate our way out of recession. Inflation may solve demand-deficient unemployment, but it does not solve structural unemployment such as skill-deficient unemployment (where only education can solve the problem) or geographical unemployment (where only breaking down barriers to the free movement of labour can solve the problem).

As long as we avoid a deflationary spiral, the demand-deficient unemployment is essentially solved overall unless we want to save the buggy industry. Otherwise it would be wiser to tackle each kind of unemployment head on.

As I explained, printing money by itself will not get you out of deflation (though that may be the only remedy available). FDR tried that in the 30s and it took years.

The US, like Canada, had also turned to protectionism, which exacerbated the depression, and was very slow to react to the depression too, with the government resisting any kind of intervention until the depression was already well under way. No comparison with today.



OK, at least we are agreed on this one thing, no government in its right mind is going to flirt with deflation. According to me, for very good reason, they don't want to risk depression. According to you, that is because they are afraid of losing power.

But whatever the reason, no government is going to try it and the discussion is purely academic.

Perhaps. I should clarify though that I see nothing wrong with short-term deflation as long as it is eventually counterbalanced with inflation to bring its value back to the original set value, and of course vice versa.

I do want to clarify though that while empirical evidence does show that a drop in the inflation rate can contribute to short-term recession and an increase in the inflation rate can create short-term employment, the effect of inflation over the long-run waters down as the economy becomes addicted to it as it is now, requiring a further increase in the inflation rate to achieve the same result.

To take an example, if we went to long-term zero inflation, that would certainly create a temporary recession as the economy adjusts to the new reality. Over time though, things would e as they are now minus the inflation once the economy adjusts to the new reality, one difference being that savings would likely be proportionately higher since people can trust in the value of their savings, thus ensuring that future growth would be slower but more sustainable with less likely hood of repeated recessions, or at least milder recessions, and with the mildest of inflation being able to pull us out of recession since it would be a drug used sparingly and not a constant fix like it is now.
 

Machjo

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And another point, if you really believe that printing money cannot counter deflation, then why do you think governments impose strict criminal penalties for counterfeiting if printing money has no effect on inflation?
 

SirJosephPorter

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I'm sure the government could print enough money to hire all of the unemployed, send them all to school, give them the money, or do whatever else it wants with it. There is no limit as to how much money the government can print beyond access to the paper, ink, printers, and workers to work the presses. We could match and even surpass the Weimar Republic within a month if we really set our minds to it. I'm sure a busy busy printing job would change people's minds quickly enough.

OK, you have said later on that this would be a crazy situation, the cure would be much worse than the disease (or as they say in the medical profession, operation successful, patient died). Enough said.

Add to that that if the government should adopt a consistent policy of aiming the currency towards a pre-set value, and act on that policy, then the public would know from experience and a trust built in the predictability of successive governments that should the currency rise to above the target value, the government will take measures to inflate it back to its original value and vice versa. This trust that would be built through consistent government action would also prevent any deflation from getting out of control. Public education could help too. If people worry about a deflationary spiral, the government would merely need to educate them about the wonder of the printing presses and how easy it would be to print our way out of such a spiral.
But we used to have that, when all the currencies were on gold standard and the exchange rates used to be fixed. Floating currencies is a relatively recent occurrence. We still used to have problems with inflation, boom/bust cycles etc. Those are parts of a free economy.



Of course I'm not suggesting that the government print the money and then put it under a pillow, but rather that they put it out into the economy by either paying off debt with it or spending it. Clearly putting more money into the economy will lower its value or at least slow down its rise. Are you telling me that if the government would print large amounts of money and put it into the economy that that would not at least slow down any deflationary trend?
I assume that is what you meant and no doubt it will help to some extent. But it takes a long time to change peoples' mindset. If people are worried about their jobs, I don't think seeing that government is spending money on infrastructure etc. will start them spending again. In fact, that is what the governments are doing today, they are stimulating the economy. But people still are not spending. Now that employment in private sector is rising again, they may start spending again. But while government pumping money into the system may perhaps partially paralyze the deflation monster, I am not sure it will slay it.

And the government pays more interest on its borrowed money too. So then we're merely trading inflation in for debt. How does that improve anything in the long run?
Government does not pay more interest on borrowed money. If inflation is kept within 1 to 2% religion, government knows exactly how much interest it will have to pay.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Most historical accounts of deflation and recession are not conclusive. There have been many cases of recession coupled with inflation or deflation coupled with growth. Though the two do influence each other to a degree, there are other factors to consider too. We can't simply conclude that we can always just inflate our way out of recession. Inflation may solve demand-deficient unemployment, but it does not solve structural unemployment such as skill-deficient unemployment (where only education can solve the problem) or geographical unemployment (where only breaking down barriers to the free movement of labour can solve the problem).

The phenomenon of recession coupled with inflation is well known, it even has a name (stagflation). Most of the world experienced stagflation briefly in the 70s. As to deflation, I don’t think there are that many examples of deflationary growth. I think Switzerland experienced it for a year or two (where cost of living actually fell while economy grew). But other than that, I cannot think of any. And Switzerland is a tiny country (smaller than Ontario), I am not sure its example will necessarily be valid elsewhere.

And you are right, there may be many causes of unemployment. The government can only do so much.


As long as we avoid a deflationary spiral, the demand-deficient unemployment is essentially solved overall unless we want to save the buggy industry. Otherwise it would be wiser to tackle each kind of unemployment head on.
I agree.



The US, like Canada, had also turned to protectionism, which exacerbated the depression, and was very slow to react to the depression too, with the government resisting any kind of intervention until the depression was already well under way. No comparison with today.
Well now, conservatives claim that FDR did too much, that he should have not done anything at all. So I suppose it is all a matter of perspective.

Perhaps. I should clarify though that I see nothing wrong with short-term deflation as long as it is eventually counterbalanced with inflation to bring its value back to the original set value, and of course vice versa.
You may be surprised, but I actually agree with you, there is nothing wrong with short term deflation. The problem is, flirting with depression is like riding a tiger. Once you have a tiger by its tail, it is very difficult to let go. You never know when deflation will get out of control.

Inflation getting out of control is bad enough, as we saw in 70s and 80. But deflation getting out of control would be much worse.

I do want to clarify though that while empirical evidence does show that a drop in the inflation rate can contribute to short-term recession and an increase in the inflation rate can create short-term employment, the effect of inflation over the long-run waters down as the economy becomes addicted to it as it is now, requiring a further increase in the inflation rate to achieve the same result.

Well now, that is the difference between having a drink a day (which may actually be good for you) and being an alcoholic. Too much inflation is definitely bad, but 1 to 2% inflation is actually a sign of growing, vibrant economy. At least that is how it has been so far. Nobody has really tested your model of deflationary growth (or zero inflation growth).
 

JLM

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2009 was a deflationary year for Canada. I have the statement from my superannuation COLA to prove it.
 

GreenFish66

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Canadian invasion - Business - Macleans.ca - Macleans,May 3 was a good read this week ..I enjoyed it .

"Canadian Invasion ", Don't care for heading much . A little distasteful ,too aggressive sounding for Canada the Peaceful:canada:......

....Aquiring businesses outside our borders is just part of doing business ,part of globalization .Nothing personal .Just business...Besides Canada respects it friends and family , their home countries .There should be no issue to buying up U.S businesses ,After all ..We're all American right ?.. Just As there should be no issue with us buying up ;) :) World/Global Businesses .After all ..We're all Worldly /Global Parteners on this 1 and only planet Earth Right?...

Cheers ..2 Peace and Prosperity ...

Peace or Pieces ?

Peace..

The Light is Green ..The Future is Clear ..Green/Clean Tech ..;-):smile:
 
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