Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Leaves?

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Not unilaterially no.

If Bosclair wins a referendum and doesn't follow the clarity act, the army will go in. That's the plan anyway.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

It is a Federal Election.

The Blokheads run candidates in only one province. They are not a federal party. If they are not working for the betterment of the whole country, why in the world should the ROC pay pensions for these parasites? Their aim is to destroy the country. Sorry, politically correct does not work here. If it were left to me, I wouldn't let them even run in a federal election.

Hey Juan... Hope you had a happy New Year. I think it comes down to rule of law. This is a largely legal question. If you don't agree with what the law says, we should amend it. That goes for not only the question of pension payments, but for their right to sit in the HOC.

 

[FiveParadox]

Amending the Constitution

If we were to begin amending the Constitution Acts to change the requirements for running as a candidate, then we would be starting down an extremely slippery slope, in my opinion. To decide one's eligibility on the basis of one's political affiliation would be, in my opinion, a horrendous affront to the principles of democracy.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

If we were to begin amending the Constitution Acts to change the requirements for running as a candidate, then we would be starting down an extremely slippery slope, in my opinion. To decide one's eligibility on the basis of one's political affiliation would be, in my opinion, a horrendous affront to the principles of democracy.

Exactly, from what FiveParodox said, there is no way they are going to seperate if they have to get through the house of commons. It is just a way to pick up votes in Quebec.

Besides, they do have the interests of Quebec at heart, even if they are trying to break up the country.

 

[#juan]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Hi Mike

Before anything else, All the best to you and yours in the new year..

It may well be a question of law, but it seems to my fuzzy old thinker that we are paying money to build a hammer to beat ourselves over the head with. The law will mean little if the country is gone.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Would it not be more appropriate that should a province (or peoples) decide to separate from the rest of the country that separation be arbitrated by a third party (most likely an international body)?

When we look at the emotionally charged words in this thread like "destroy canada" we see the need for objective and unbiased mediators in the separation.

As for the OP, yes, since people paid into and are a part of a pension system of the current country, then those people are entitled to their pensions regardless of where they end up residing (be it a new country or not).

 

[Toro]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

I'm going to come sleep with your wife.

You'll pay me, right?

 

[FiveParadox]

Third Party

In my opinion, I do not think that it would be appropriate for a third party to intervene in the domestic "issues," for lack of a better term, in Canada. Besides, to authorize a "third party" to hold any legislative power in terms of the separation of a Province would require amendments to various pieces of legislation, not to mention the Constitution, and would make the entire system of governance far more complicated in order to accomodate this.

The only third party that could perhaps intervene, without the amendment of the Constitution or other legislation, would be for the Queen of Canada to exercise her executive authority over the nation, acting on the ruling of perhaps some third party such as the House of Commons of the United Kingdom. However, I fear that initiating such a step would be seen by many as a "step backward."

:!: Edit Added a paragraph of content; a second time to add an edit disclaimer.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

perhaps you would like to explain how your scenario is equivilant to the separation of the country, toro?

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec

perhaps you would like to explain how your scenario is equivilant to the separation of the country, toro?

EDIT - You're paying the person/people who are breaking up the marriage to break up a marriage.

 

[FiveParadox]

Hardly a Marriage

Québec is the only Province to have never agreed to the repatriated Constitution Act, 1982. Apparently someone forgot to have Québec sign the marriage papers, lol.

Nonetheless, if Québec is determined to leave the nation, and if by some odd turn of events our Legislatures, the Senate, the House of Commons and the Governor General decide to grant their consent, then there isn't anything to worry about — if such a thing ever happens, then a great deal of debate is going to take place first, and their arguments are going to need to be extremely compelling.

Hey, you never know, one day we might be okay with it. Never say never.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

if she is not happy with the marriage, and things can not be reconciled, it is likely there will be a breakup, and a third party would arbitrate the distibution of wealth.

I would pay her, or she I. You would not get paid.

If somebody wants out, it is their privilage to persue such action. Canada is a broken marriage, and mediation is necessary leading either to a new canada with the same borders, or more than one new nation.

Don't cling emotionally to the past, but look to the future.

 

[MMMike]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Hi Mike

Before anything else, All the best to you and yours in the new year..

It may well be a question of law, but it seems to my fuzzy old thinker that we are paying money to build a hammer to beat ourselves over the head with. The law will mean little if the country is gone.

Hey Juan... had a geat new year so far, and a nice relaxing break.

In a certain respect, we are paying money to build a hammer to beat ourselves over the head with but that may beat the alternatives... civil war ??

Quebekers are Canadian, and they deserve a voice in Canadian politics. If we try to limit what that voice says, there will be blowback in one form or another.

 

[FiveParadox]

Agreement in Principle

While I agree with the premise of what you said, the caracal kid, you probably know that I oppose the notion that Canada is "broken;" but that's an issue for another thread, eh?

As for this topic — if a referendum in Québec passes, then we know where Québec stands. Our parties in the House of Commons have been clear that the referendum is only the initiation of the process — not the conclusion. If, through the process of debate, the House of Commons decides to grant its consent to the separation of Québec, and the Senate and Legislatures do the same, then so be it.

I would regret the decision of Québec, of course; and I would always be standing with open arms were Québec to ask to opt back into Confederation at a later date. Again, I oppose Québec sovereignty, but nothing is set in stone.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec

if she is not happy with the marriage, and things can not be reconciled, it is likely there will be a breakup, and a third party would arbitrate the distibution of wealth.

I would pay her, or she I. You would not get paid.

If somebody wants out, it is their privilage to persue such action. Canada is a broken marriage, and mediation is necessary leading either to a new canada with the same borders, or more than one new nation.

Don't cling emotionally to the past, but look to the future.

Well, the future ain't going to have a third-party arbitration panel.

Is this what the separatists are selling in Quebec?

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

I don't know. I am not in Quebec.

I suspect that an international body would end up assisting in some form or another though. For one thing it helps prevent the appearance of bias (which all sides within canada would have, one way or another)

 

[FiveParadox]

Governor General's Role

The role of Her Excellency the Right Honourable Michaëlle Jean would be an interesting dynamic, if such a crisis were to arise during her tenure as the Governor General of Canada. She had once been accused, shortly after the announcement of her appointment, as having former ties to sovereignty movements, was she not?

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec

I don't know. I am not in Quebec.

I suspect that an international body would end up assisting in some form or another though. For one thing it helps prevent the appearance of bias (which all sides within canada would have, one way or another)

Why would Canada do that though? Canada is in a stronger position.

 

[bumbo]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

Personal feelings dictate the old "If they want to keep thier pensions then they can stay in Canada but if they don't want to be a part of this great nation then they can find other means to support themselves. If I am going to have to purchase/update my passport in order to visit another province or if I am going to have to pay more for airfare to visit my family in Newfoundland again, then they can find other means for support."

Personal feelings aside as Chris mentioend, it is unlawful for Canada to withold the pension monies when the individuals involved within this pension "Contract" signed prior to seperation. Furthermore this very argument is one of the main reasons that Quebec will never seperate, I doubt very highly if we'll ever see the day when this comes to pass.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

"Canada is in a stronger position."

not really. neither side has a stronger position. Both sides have a different vision, that if not reconciled can only be satisifed with a split.

Canada would be stronger with a clear mandate for Quebec separation because that would provide the momentum to create either new countries or a working united canada.

If you have a broken watch, you either take it apart and repair it, or you replace it (assuming you need a watch). Canada so far has been a broken watch that many just seem to like to admire "as is" rather than attempting to take apart and repair.