Role of the Supreme Court of Canada

What are your preferences for the role of the Supreme Court of Canada?

  • Able to strike down laws that contravene the Constitution

    Votes: 14 82.4%
  • Cannot strike down laws that contravene the Constitution

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Interpret the law based on the Constitution

    Votes: 13 76.5%
  • Interpret the law based on the wishes of the majority

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Justices are appointed

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • Justices are elected

    Votes: 6 35.3%

  • Total voters
    17

CDNBear

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The man's a convicted terrorist.

The denial of some rights and freedoms to convicts is saved by s. 1 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
So you both agree that the lower court erred, the Federal Appellate Court was correct, and finally, the SC was correct in not hearing, or intervening in this case. As his Charter rights were violated with justifiable cause?

As per, “ 1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. ”
 

FiveParadox

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Dec 20, 2005
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I can’t speak for gerryh, but that is my position.

The Federal Court of Canada erred, so the Federal Court of Appeal reversed (or set aside) the decision; leave for appeal was denied by the Supreme Court of Canada for reasons that I would assume are concurrence with the Federal Court of Appeal (as is the convention, the Supreme Court does not issue statements to accompany denials of leave for appeal).
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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I can’t speak for gerryh, but that is my position.

The Federal Court of Canada erred, so the Federal Court of Appeal reversed (or set aside) the decision; leave for appeal was denied by the Supreme Court of Canada for reasons that I would assume are concurrence with the Federal Court of Appeal (as is the convention, the Supreme Court does not issue statements to accompany denials of leave for appeal).

My position on this matter is the same.
 

CDNBear

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I can’t speak for gerryh, but that is my position.

The Federal Court of Canada erred, so the Federal Court of Appeal reversed (or set aside) the decision; leave for appeal was denied by the Supreme Court of Canada for reasons that I would assume are concurrence with the Federal Court of Appeal (as is the convention, the Supreme Court does not issue statements to accompany denials of leave for appeal).

My position on this matter is the same.
Well that's just great...

The case I sighted, fails the Oakes Test.

Under Oakes Test, carrying the Kirpan, does not meet the requirements. It does not unjustly infringe or impede the ability of the Sikh community to observe their faith.

1) Under "Pressing and Substantial Objective"...

The Gov'ts objective in limiting the Charter protected right is a pressing and substantial objective according to the values of a free and democratic society, ie; It fails to uphold the safety of the general public, by affording the right to carry a concealed weapon.

2) "Rational Connection"...

The Gov'ts request was not arbitrary, unfair, or based on irrational considerations. Our weapons laws have been on the books for many years. They were written with the intent to protect the general public from harm.

It is in no way, unfair, arbitrary or irrational to hold all religions to these set laws, for the protection of the community, at large.

3) "Minimal Impairment"...

The request of the legislation, ie; the criminal code regarding concealed weapons, does not hinder, or restrict the Sikh community in anyway. They are still capable of all religious practice, except the ability to carry a weapon in public.

4) "Proportionality"...

Simply demanding that the Sikh community honour our laws, is not out of proportion to the severity of the infringement. They were not asked to cease practicing their faith, they were asked to cease the concealed carrying of a weapon.

The safety of the general public, the biased nature of extending rights and priviledges to a singular group that is not shared by all and the affects of not adhering to the laws of the CCoC as a part of traditional Canadian values, outweigh any minor infringement on the Sikh community.

This can only mean one thing, this ruling was activism and nothing more.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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really, ut appears the SC disagrees with you....I'll look for the rulling
 

CDNBear

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really, ut appears the SC disagrees with you....I'll look for the rulling
Of course it would, it didn't use law to make it's ruling. It was a simple case of "Judicial activism".

I challenge you to show me where I erred.

Don't use the SC ruling, use Canada's own legal Charter test, the Oakes Test and your own interpretations.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Multani v. Commission Scolaire: The Kirpan Case

Hanging in the Balance: Religious Symbolism, Security, and Freedom of Religion - A Summary of the Kirpan Case

On March 2, 2006, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled, first, that a total ban on wearing a kirpan to school violated an individual's freedom of religion protected by section 2(a) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and, second, that this ban on religious expression was not reasonable or justifiable, as is required under section 1.
Multani v. Commission scolaire Marguerite-Bourgeoys[1] was the culmination of a long legal battle that pitted Balvir Singh Multani and his son Gurbaj Singh Multani against a Quebec school division and the Attorney General of Quebec. In 2001, 12 year-old Gurbaj (?G?) was playing in the schoolyard when he accidentally dropped his kirpan, a Sikh religious object that resembles a dagger. A kirpan, which must be made of metal, is to be worn at all times by devout Sikh males. After learning of the incident, the school board allowed G?s parents to send their son to school wearing the kirpan, if it was safely sealed inside his clothing. The Multanis agreed to these conditions, yet the governing board (the Commission scolaire Marguerite-Bourgeoys) soon revoked the compromise. The board said that wearing a kirpan at school posed a potential safety threat to students and staff, which violated the school?s code of conduct prohibiting the carrying of weapons. G was ultimately forbidden from wearing a kirpan at school. According to the Multanis, this ban posed irreconcilable friction with the tenets of their faith, and thus they withdrew G from the public school system.
In May 2002, the Superior Court of Quebec weighed the safety concerns of the school board with G?s religious freedoms. In the end, the court disagreed with the board?s total ban and ruled that G could wear his kirpan under stipulated conditions (it had to be carried in a wooden case, wrapped in fabric, and sewn into his clothes). The court felt that these restrictions addressed the safety issues raised by the board and the Attorney General while still respecting the religious freedoms afforded to G under the Charter. In March 2004, the Quebec Court of Appeal overturned this judgment, ruling in favor of the board. According to Quebec?s highest court, the potential security concerns posed by G?s wearing of the kirpan were more pressing than his freedom to wear a Sikh symbol.
The Multanis successfully appealed this decision to the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC). One practical issue was the characterization of the kirpan ? is the kirpan rightly viewed primarily as a weapon or as a religious symbol? But the court disagreed that G needed to address the ?kirpan as weapon? issue; instead, he had only to demonstrate his sincere personal, subjective belief in the religious significance of the kirpan (para. 37). Because G had actually chosen to leave school rather than attend without a kirpan, the SCC was satisfied that the commission?s ban was more than a trivial interference with G?s religious rights.
Having identified a significant Charter infringement, the SCC turned to the balancing provisions outlined in section 1 of the Charter ? that is, if the ban was to be justified the board had the onus of showing that the security concerns for school patrons outweighed the violation of G?s religious freedom. The SCC acknowledged that ?freedom of religion can be limited when a person?s freedom to act in accordance with his or her beliefs may cause harm or interfere with the rights of others? (para. 26). However, after hearing the arguments, the Court ruled unanimously that the commission failed to justify a total ban. According to Madam Justice Charron?s reasons, the ban was not proportional to the goal of achieving reasonable safety in schools. In short, the SCC viewed a total prohibition on kirpans as overkill, citing evidence that there had never been an incidence of kirpan-related violence within schools. Moreover, banning kirpans might lead to a ban on other potential weapon-objects commonly found in schools, such as scissors, pencils, and baseball bats (para. 58). Ultimately, the Court reaffirmed the measures recommended by the Supreme Court of Quebec, stating that ?accommodating Gurbaj Singh and allowing him to wear his kirpan under certain conditions demonstrates the importance that our society attaches to protecting freedom of religion and to showing respect for its minorities? (para. 79).
Complete limitations of Charter rights will rarely be upheld when proportional accommodation of these freedoms is possible, and sincere religious beliefs and practices will receive a great deal of deference. This decision demonstrates the Supreme Court of Canada's continued commitment to careful and thoughtful balancing of constitutional rights and responsibilities.

Centre for Constitutional Studies - Multani v. Commission Scolaire: The Kirpan Case
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Of course it would, it didn't use law to make it's ruling. It was a simple case of "Judicial activism".

I challenge you to show me where I erred.

Don't use the SC ruling, use Canada's own legal Charter test, the Oakes Test and your own interpretations.

Just read the "Oakes test", and the SC did not err in my opinion.
 

CDNBear

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One practical issue was the characterization of the kirpan ? is the kirpan rightly viewed primarily as a weapon or as a religious symbol? But the court disagreed that G needed to address the ?kirpan as weapon? issue; instead, he had only to demonstrate his sincere personal, subjective belief in the religious significance of the kirpan (para. 37). Because G had actually chosen to leave school rather than attend without a kirpan, the SCC was satisfied that the commission?s ban was more than a trivial interference with G?s religious rights.
What he thinks it is and what it really is, even in the tenets of the Sikh religion is a weapon, "Never to be unarmed" pretty much sums up their belief that it is a weapon.
However, after hearing the arguments, the Court ruled unanimously that the commission failed to justify a total ban. According to Madam Justice Charron?s reasons, the ban was not proportional to the goal of achieving reasonable safety in schools. In short, the SCC viewed a total prohibition on kirpans as overkill, citing evidence that there had never been an incidence of kirpan-related violence within schools. Moreover, banning kirpans might lead to a ban on other potential weapon-objects commonly found in schools, such as scissors, pencils, and baseball bats (para. 58).
More activism.

A knife is a knife, period. Siting the lack of incidents, is tantammount to saying that there isn't that much automatic gun play in Kapuskasing, so they can posses automatic weapons there.

Complete limitations of Charter rights will rarely be upheld when proportional accommodation of these freedoms is possible, and sincere religious beliefs and practices will receive a great deal of deference. This decision demonstrates the Supreme Court of Canada's continued commitment to careful and thoughtful balancing of constitutional rights and responsibilities.
It isn't proportional. The carrying of concealed weapons is prohibited by law, the fact that they can still observe their faith, wear their knife to holy places and such is proof of that. The very fact that this gives special rights to a portion of the public further proves disproportion.

Carrying a knife to school is wrong.

This only bolsters my assertion that this was activism, not jurisprudence.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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I'm curious Bear...did you read the same article as I posted? Cause it sure as hell doesn't seem like it.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'm curious Bear...did you read the same article as I posted? Cause it sure as hell doesn't seem like it.
Yes I did Gh...

I filtered it with legality in mind, not emotion and the tenets of religion in my mind.

I looked at the case on its merits.

1) The kirpan is a weapon, even by Sikh religion, its a weapon.

2) It gives special treatment to a single group of society without merit.

3) It is a weapon, it is a dangerous weapon. It is a crime in Canada to carry a concealed weapon.

4) It is not unjustifiable or disproportionate to disallow the carrying of a weapon, it is a minor infringement, while the reverse is a far greater affront to society as a whole.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Sorry Bear...but you have it wrong as to what the Kirpan symbolizes in the Sikh religion.

Kirpan is a symbol of respect, justice and authority; it is a reminder
that Sikhs are warriors. However, the Kirpan is never used for
offensive purposes.

It is not considered appropriate to wear one of the five K’s without wearing the other four.

This one of the things the SC took into account in their decission.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Sorry Bear...but you have it wrong as to what the Kirpan symbolizes in the Sikh religion.
No I don't.

Kirpan is a symbol of respect, justice and authority; it is a reminder
that Sikhs are warriors. However, the Kirpan is never used for
offensive purposes.
Really, I'ld beg to differ, I've already posted one news story. I have my own brush with the passive symbology myself.

From the Sikh wiki...
Kirpan (a small sword) A sign that a Sikh is a soldier in "Akal Purakh's (God's) Army" (Akal Purakh de fauj); to maintain and protect the weak and needy and for self defence. Never to be used in anger.
A Soldier?

In Gods Army?

Yep, a weapon it is.

It is not considered appropriate to wear one of the five K’s without wearing the other four.
Cool, because they should be able to wear four out five.

This one of the things the SC took into account in their decission.
Erroneously.

This was not dictated by their God, it was created by Guru Gobind Singh. A man.

So, by the definition of the SC and your support thereof, if I were to become an ordained minister, and developed my own flock, I could make such edicts of my own? Would be cool with my Soldiers wandering about with C7's?

I wonder why the Rasta's didn't win the right to consume cannabis?
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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you are taking everything at face value....word for word.......

Didn't you study under your Grandfather? Did he not teach you about sybolism?
 

CDNBear

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you are taking everything at face value....word for word.......
I think not. I take things for what they are.

Didn't you study under your Grandfather? Did he not teach you about sybolism?
Yep...

There is much symbolism in my culture. Smoke is purifying, yet we are still banned from burning tobacco in buildings. The Tomahawk/Peace pipe has a significant symbology in my culture. Yet I wouldn't even think of carrying one, concealed or otherwise.

Besides the fact that I would be charged and like convicted, I don't need to portray my culture and faith in such a way. I'm better then that. I celebrate my faith on my time, on my property or on sanctioned property where I will not be in contravention of the law. Even though I should also enjoy such exemptions.

So, I'm still wondering why the Rasta's can't smoke pot legally? It's not as harmful as a dagger. It doesn't put the greater public safety at risk. Hmmm, I wonder why a knife is ok, but big ole bad Ganja isn't...

Things that make you go, hmmm.

Activism.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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roflmao...you sure you want to stick withthe Rastafarians as your rebuttle to the Sikh religion?
 

gerryh

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I think not. I take things for what they are.

Yep...

There is much symbolism in my culture. Smoke is purifying, yet we are still banned from burning tobacco in buildings. The Tomahawk/Peace pipe has a significant symbology in my culture. Yet I wouldn't even think of carrying one, concealed or otherwise.

Besides the fact that I would be charged and like convicted, I don't need to portray my culture and faith in such a way. I'm better then that. I celebrate my faith on my time, on my property or on sanctioned property where I will not be in contravention of the law. Even though I should also enjoy such exemptions.

So, I'm still wondering why the Rasta's can't smoke pot legally? It's not as harmful as a dagger. It doesn't put the greater public safety at risk. Hmmm, I wonder why a knife is ok, but big ole bad Ganja isn't...

Things that make you go, hmmm.

Activism.

I'm sorry, could you point me to the SC ruling that forbade First Nations from practicing their faith like you would have them do with the Sihks.