Religion and social conditions
- Thread starter peapod
- Start date
No, coldstream, Vanni Fucci's was an "absolutist" statement which compared historical fact to the mythology you typed.
Geez, at least get the terms YOU use straight." Relativism" implies the LACK of absolutes.A "relativist" would argue that there was some way to rationalize the term "Western Christian society" so that it described something non-imaginary.
Re: RE: Religion and social conditions
pastafarian,
Modern technology did start in the West, but its fundamental components preceded the Enlightenment. The so called Golden Age of Islam, from 600 -1400, produced very little in terms of philosophical or scientific advancement, if you discount its purported invention of the number zero. The European Dark Ages, which ended with the Medieval period, was not a product of Islamic intercession. It was very much spearheaded by the emergence of the Church, its vast building projects of Cathedrals, its development of universities, its patronage of sciences and exploration, it models of the nuclear family and the community. The Christian religion represents an ideal, to which the human element has conformed imperfectly from its inception, hence things like the Inquisition. It is the ideal on which our civilization, however is built.
The Enlightenment is too broad a term to discuss without it nuances. It undoubtedly established democracy and republican ideals. It also can be seen to have been corrupted from its original intent, into the forms of radical nihilism, relativism and individualism that we now see moving into mainstream thought. In many ways it is annihilating the fundamental social organizations, the family being central to that, on which our culture depends for its sense of order. Without that the productive impetus on which our society is founded, it will collapse, with catastrophic economic and social implications. What will emerge after that is what you see now in Islamic dominated nations, none of which have a viable democracy (the closest is Turkey, with a militarily secured secularism and widespread human rights abuses), and whose economies are based either on extraction of mineral wealth, if they're lucky. If they're not its dominated by stoop labour, mercantilism and trading, built things like opium trade from Afghanistan. These societies are more often than not very violent and clannish.
pastafarian said:
pastafarian,
Modern technology did start in the West, but its fundamental components preceded the Enlightenment. The so called Golden Age of Islam, from 600 -1400, produced very little in terms of philosophical or scientific advancement, if you discount its purported invention of the number zero. The European Dark Ages, which ended with the Medieval period, was not a product of Islamic intercession. It was very much spearheaded by the emergence of the Church, its vast building projects of Cathedrals, its development of universities, its patronage of sciences and exploration, it models of the nuclear family and the community. The Christian religion represents an ideal, to which the human element has conformed imperfectly from its inception, hence things like the Inquisition. It is the ideal on which our civilization, however is built.
The Enlightenment is too broad a term to discuss without it nuances. It undoubtedly established democracy and republican ideals. It also can be seen to have been corrupted from its original intent, into the forms of radical nihilism, relativism and individualism that we now see moving into mainstream thought. In many ways it is annihilating the fundamental social organizations, the family being central to that, on which our culture depends for its sense of order. Without that the productive impetus on which our society is founded, it will collapse, with catastrophic economic and social implications. What will emerge after that is what you see now in Islamic dominated nations, none of which have a viable democracy (the closest is Turkey, with a militarily secured secularism and widespread human rights abuses), and whose economies are based either on extraction of mineral wealth, if they're lucky. If they're not its dominated by stoop labour, mercantilism and trading, built things like opium trade from Afghanistan. These societies are more often than not very violent and clannish.
I'm not going to list them all, since it's pretty clear this is en ideological rather than a factual debate for you.
The numeral representing zero was part of the Aravbic system of numerals which alone revolutionized mathematics. Systems of algebraic equations, quadratic equations and solution of some special examples of Fermat's Theorem are all contrcutions of Islamic culture. They established formal empiricism as a tool of scientific investigation, showed that geometrical problems could be solved algebraically and made a whole pile of discoveries and technical innovations without which the modern science of chemistry would not exist. They invented the astrolabe and conceived of the pendulum as a device to measure time. Without their trasnslations of the Greek scientists and philosophers, the loss suppression and destruction of these texts by the Church would have made them forever unavailable. The modern university is a creation of Islam, which trained the few educated Europeans that were around in the Middle Ages.
Nobody has claimed this.
Agreed, the Church was largely responsible for the Dark Ages. The rest:
is fantasy.
Here at last, we agree. And so are (among others) Hinuism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Jainism and certain threads of Existentialism (see Camus, for example).
Christianity itself is an amalgam of myths (in the most positive sense), wisdom and stories cobbled together from the Sumerians, Mithrans, Egyptians and others.
The rest of your post is, at best pure speculation organized to bolster a xenophobic mythos of Euro-American superiority.
RE: Religion and social c
Top US court hears religious case
The US Supreme Court is debating its first religious freedom case since the appointment of the new Chief Justice, John Roberts.
The judges are deciding whether to let a small congregation in New Mexico worship with hallucinogenic tea.
The hoasca tea is considered sacred to members of the group, O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal.
However, the administration of President George Bush argues that it is illegal and potentially dangerous.
About 130 members of a Brazil-based church have been in long-running dispute with federal agents, who seized their tea in 1999.
Members of the group believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies.
Click link at top for rest.
This will be very interesting to see play out.
Top US court hears religious case
The US Supreme Court is debating its first religious freedom case since the appointment of the new Chief Justice, John Roberts.
The judges are deciding whether to let a small congregation in New Mexico worship with hallucinogenic tea.
The hoasca tea is considered sacred to members of the group, O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal.
However, the administration of President George Bush argues that it is illegal and potentially dangerous.
About 130 members of a Brazil-based church have been in long-running dispute with federal agents, who seized their tea in 1999.
Members of the group believe they can understand God only by drinking the tea, which is consumed twice a month at four-hour ceremonies.
Click link at top for rest.
This will be very interesting to see play out.
Was Jesus a stoner?
[URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7513/holypot21zp.jpg[/URL][/img]
[URL=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7513/holypot21zp.jpg[/URL][/img]
Well, pastafarian, pot.. kettle.. black...
The philosophical period of Islam more or less completely sputtered out by the 14th Century, afterwhich it was ruled by Imams and despots, and was extremely literal to the Koran. Although there is some evidence that texts of the Greek and Roman philosophies and sciences were preserved in Muslim institutions... the same preservation can be said to have happened int the Benedictine monastaries that started to appear in the 7th Century. The Arabic number system is a symbolic notation system, that is not in and of itself responsible for the development of mathematics. It was simply more concise the the Roman and other systems that were developed before it. The development of higher order mathematics, in part in conjuntion with the development of atronomical observation, was for the most part of the Western progression. The veracity of religions can be gleaned from the order and advancement of societies they produce.
AND... BTW
The Dark Ages were not brought on by the Church, but by the collapse of the Roman Empire and Classical Civilization. It led a period of retrenchment in science and building technologies, and to tribalism and lawlessness in Western Europe the lasted 600 years. It's emergence was due to development of both the Church and nation state, both founded on concepts of Christian dualism (Give unto Caesar what is Ceasar's, and unto God.. etc.), which is the founding pillar of Western civilization. You can take from this that civilizations can and do collapse, when their civilizing impetus is discarded, for myths and superstitions.
The Dark Ages were not brought on by the Church, but by the collapse of the Roman Empire and Classical Civilization. It led a period of retrenchment in science and building technologies, and to tribalism and lawlessness in Western Europe the lasted 600 years. It's emergence was due to development of both the Church and nation state, both founded on concepts of Christian dualism (Give unto Caesar what is Ceasar's, and unto God.. etc.), which is the founding pillar of Western civilization. You can take from this that civilizations can and do collapse, when their civilizing impetus is discarded, for myths and superstitions.
RE: Religion and social c
Ford, gay rights leaders to meet on ad pullout
A teaser:
Ford Motor Co. executives will meet early next week with leaders of gay rights organizations to discuss the automaker's decision to pull advertisements for its Land Rover and Jaguar lines from gay publications, a Ford spokesman said Friday.
"We look forward to the dialogue with the leadership of the gay community," said spokesman Mike Moran.
Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, said the group will ask Ford to explain why it dropped the ads and encourage company officials to reconsider the decision Monday.
The meeting between the automaker and leaders from 19 gay rights organizations will come one week after those organizations issued a joint statement decrying media reports of a "confidential agreement" between Ford and the conservative American Family Association.
In May, the association called for a boycott of Ford because of the automaker's sponsorships of gay events such as pride celebrations, donations to gay rights organizations and diversity workshops for managers that included sexual orientation training. [/end teaser]
American Family Association are a bunch of bigots. Groups like that is the reason religion gets a bad name. Maybe a boycott on Ford is in order for them falling to the pressure of the AFA? Personally I have never owned a Ford and most likely never will. They are bigots by association. :evil:
Ford, gay rights leaders to meet on ad pullout
A teaser:
Ford Motor Co. executives will meet early next week with leaders of gay rights organizations to discuss the automaker's decision to pull advertisements for its Land Rover and Jaguar lines from gay publications, a Ford spokesman said Friday.
"We look forward to the dialogue with the leadership of the gay community," said spokesman Mike Moran.
Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, said the group will ask Ford to explain why it dropped the ads and encourage company officials to reconsider the decision Monday.
The meeting between the automaker and leaders from 19 gay rights organizations will come one week after those organizations issued a joint statement decrying media reports of a "confidential agreement" between Ford and the conservative American Family Association.
In May, the association called for a boycott of Ford because of the automaker's sponsorships of gay events such as pride celebrations, donations to gay rights organizations and diversity workshops for managers that included sexual orientation training. [/end teaser]
American Family Association are a bunch of bigots. Groups like that is the reason religion gets a bad name. Maybe a boycott on Ford is in order for them falling to the pressure of the AFA? Personally I have never owned a Ford and most likely never will. They are bigots by association. :evil:
RE: Religion and social c
Somebody should start a counter-boycott. See how well Ford likes having only the religious right as customers.
Somebody should start a counter-boycott. See how well Ford likes having only the religious right as customers.