Re: RE: Rev. Blair's "Good" Idea!

[Nascar_James]

I love the way you try to write him off as "just another Castro" as well. Have you ever thought about what Castro might have been able to accomplish if he wasn't blocked from the US market? Imagine Cuba with money.

Well Rev, if Castro hadn't confiscated property from US citizens without compensation after the 1959 revolution, I might have some sympathy. As it stands, he's nothing but a two-bit commie with one foot in the grave.

You also conveniently forget that Chavez is democratically elected. He won a six year term. Bush paid for a recall election, and Chavez won that. His supporting politicians in cities and states have won their seats. Chavez survived a US-backed coup (and FBI documents that back up Chavez's version have surfaced and been published) because he had the support of the people. Several surrounding nations have moved left since Chavez came to power due to his influence.

I've already discussed this before, but I don't mind re-iterating myself this time ...

In addition to Amnesty International, the Inter-American Human Rights Commission also expressed concern at Chavez's Human Rights Violations.

Last year, many Venezuelan citizens were killed or arrested under Chavez in clashes sparked by Chavez's authorities decision to reject a petition seeking a recall vote against Chavez.

It appears the leftist-leaning Chavez has become increasingly autocratic.

Venezuelan citizens submitted more than 3 million signatures the prior year demanding a recall election. About 2.4 million signatures are required for a vote. Why did Chanvez not have a recall election as required by law instead of arresting and/or killing his own citizens?

Read the full details (p.s. cbs news is a left leaning news source)...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/06/world/main634466.shtml

 

[Reverend Blair]

Well Rev, if Castro hadn't confiscated property from US citizens without compensation after the 1959 revolution, I might have some sympathy. As it stands, he's nothing but a two-bit commie with one foot in the grave.

If US corporations hadn't been using the Cuban people as slave labour and the US government hadn't been backing a regime that tortured and murdered people, with the help of the CIA, as a matter of course, Castro never would have come to power.

You reap what you sow, Nascar Nero.

I've already discussed this before, but I don't mind re-iterating myself this time ...

You got your ass kicked in your last discussion of this because all you could find is some facts that didn't really back you up.

You can reiterate all you want, but until you come up with something better you are still WRONG.

By the way, Chavez did hold the recall election. He won by landslide. He has a popularity rating of over 70%. What's Bush's at?

 

[peapod]

uh huh..and everybody knows your government and lil chimp (dubya) have tried to smear chavez. Lil chimp and company have tried to undermine a democratically-elected leader, and we all know why to lil chimp wants all the nanners for his self.

 

[jimmoyer]

Look at us all.

Look at this debate, an argument between believers.

Bush and Chavez have their loyalists and will make heroes of them both.

Each one knows what sells to the masses, what sells to their natural constituency.

We're all buying into a product.

You all buy into the Hate-Amerika Product. Man does it sell and for good reason apparently.

I buy into something that might no longer exist, but I'm not going to run headlong into the arms of another lover on the rebound.

The biggest fault here is to aggrandize anyone else because of your hatred of another.

If you're going to be a cynic, why not keep it consistent?

What ?

You don't want to be a hobgoblin?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Re: RE: Rev. Blair's

Still pushing the same tired old lines, Jimmy. There seems to be something going on, but you don't what is, so you figured to try to stop it?

 

[jimmoyer]

Nah, I'm one of those conservatives not too happy with the Bush.

1. Lack of a border control policy.
2. Republicans outspending Democrats on Pork projects
3. Republicans disavowing former pledges for term limits, fiscal sanity, tax clarity, investment in technology and new forms of energy.
4. Republicans have expanded the bureaucracy with Home Security resulting in more confusion and no solution to the turf battles. At first Bush correctly resisted creating such a monster, but then caved in to the Democrats and media pressure for such resistance.

5. Bush has not learned anything from Kennedy's bungled job with Castro ? We screwed up with Chavez. We have no right and much less the power to assert any position in Venezuela. This is the old conservative position, not the now defunct neo-con group.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Re: RE: Rev. Blair's

And yet you continue to make excuses for Bush's actions. You haven't addressed the fact that he's been lying to you either. Don't even get me started on the environmental crimes that have been committed. How come conservatives hate conservation so much?

 

[jimmoyer]

Now there's an old forgotten word: conservation.

That's what the first environmentalists called themselves.

I pick at the excesses in the arguments of both sides.
And surely there are excessive, shallow arguments on both sides.

You'll see me point out (not often since this site does lean heavily in the opposite direction) similar complaints to yours.

I think the Republicans got a tin ear for defecating where we live.

And I do believe in the economics of private business including the costs of environmental impact as a cost of doing business and I believe the adult thing to do is to make a balance of choices and not giving in to the politics of children demanding it all while not realizing the cost.

As far as the morass of Bush lies and the lies of most politicians I am all about the following:

1. too bored and wearied by it.
2. such righteous condemnation leads nowhere usually
3. and a true understanding that our leaders are no better than we are if we were in their position and that we should hold ourselves to more accountability than we should hold our leaders.

4. and finally seeing conspiracy in our leaders is a chimera. Essentially belief in conspiracy is quite a paradox of logic, for it assumes both competence and incompetence at the same time. I've often seen people accuse the same leaders of being idiots but also holding them quite competent to hoodwink us. Sure I believe politicians hide from us, but some of that executive privilege allows honest discussion without fear and that's why our voting is done by secret ballot.

 

[peapod]

Seems to me that chevez and Castro called out the chimp on anti-terrorism.

"Recently de-classified U.S. documents show that an exiled anti-communist from Cuba, who is wanted in Venezuela for the bombing of a Cuban airliner in 1976, was on the CIA payroll for years, even though our illustrious leadership systematically denied knowledge of his whereabouts. Now Venezuela is asking for the chimp to extradite Luis Posada Carriles so that he may face prosecution."

I wonder will the lil chimp turn him over?? Or are only arab terrrorists???

 

[jimmoyer]

No argument with your point here.

And yes there is no way the US is going to extradite this guy to Hugo Chavez and for good reason. Every other SOB we've employed in the CIA for every good or stupid job will be watching and so will every snitch we've paid too.

And there is no consistency in response to terrorism, except one.

It's the terrorism that is most dangerous to us.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Re: RE: Rev. Blair's

If you donj't turn Carilles over, then you are a terrorist state and, according to your own leader's doctrine, subject to invasion and forced regime change.

 

[jimmoyer]

True.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Re: RE: Rev. Blair's

See, that's the kind of thing that gets your country criticised, Jim. You claim to be world leaders, but you lead in the wrong direction. You claim the protection of international law, but refuse to abide by those laws yourself.