Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

[Numure]

RE: Quebec shouldn

Ok then, lets get to what I believe in. We, in the world community, need a common language. I've thought about Esperanto, not a bad idea per say. As of late (Mostly du to you mon ami), I've thought, why not latin? Nothing substantial on this as of yet.

Well, I have many ideas for an independant Québec, though all on paper and not in the informatique mainstream. I've shared thse with very few people (Mostly fellow PQ members). It shows promise. I should get to sharing it with alot more people, but im still working on it (It takes up alot of my time lately). It address multiple issues, as I myself am sceptique by nature. Even if its a cause I support with all my heart.

You ask intriguing questions, but sadly I cannot give you all the answer. I am but one, of many seperatist. But I am not a leader, and how seperation will be done changes all the time. I share what I know, and the opinions of fellow members.

 

[Machjo]

RE: Quebec shouldn

If you're interested in the topic of language planning issues, you can also have a look at:
http://www.esperanto.net/

 

[Andem]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn

If you're interested in the topic of language planning issues, you can also have a look at:
http://www.esperanto.net/

If you don't mind me asking, Machjo, what's with your obsession with esperanto? Sorry if I used the word obsession wrong, but it just seems that you're extremely interested in promoting it.

 

[Machjo]

RE: Quebec shouldn

I don't mind at all, Andem. I don't support Esperanto per se, but rather te principle of a 'Universal Auxiliary Langauge'.

And the reason I consider it so important is because of all the conflict it's causing in the world. I myself was raised into a bilingual family in a relatively bilingual city. I'd witnessed both anti-french and anti-Englsih sentiments all my life. Add to tat that I've witnessed resentment here in China among many people for the fact tat wile they must work so ard to achieve a minimal command of te English language after years of study, English speakers are actually making money just selling their language. I've also witnessed tensions parallel to Canada's in Xinjiang likewise, were many Uighurs resent Chinese and would prefer speking with oter Cinese in English as a neutral language. Add to that tat some academics are now suggesting tat language as also played a role in more violent conflicts, including in the Balkans, and now in te Sudan. Tere are plenty of sites on this subject, but I'll only present one for a start:

http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/03022.html

I hope tis answers some of your questions.

 

[data-unlimited]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn

... Think harder, you might find better reasons.

XP care to give me one, then?

If Québec seperates, Canada looses its position as a "Middle Power". It looses its membership in the G7 (G8, what ever floats your boat). The dollard would, inevitibly crash. Canada would be split in half ( If the crie don't follow, then it won't be as bad... but thats another issue). The Federal goverment looses a big bulk of its revenue.

Alot more reason could follow... But, I'm seperatist myself. So I can't really think of all the reasons. I can easily, think of many reasons why.

Its not a lost cause. I've said many times, if Canada is going to work, it needs alot of Reforms. Decentralisation...

1) We should eliminate the Federal goverments ability to collect revenue. Limits its ability to over rule the provinces atrhority.

2) A new revenue system for the federal goverment should be put in place. Example would be that the provincial goverments collect revenues (Taxes... whatever else), and then give a % determined by the Provinces GDP. This would eliminate the need of equalisation payments. It would also allow, more conservatives provinces to have lower taxes and less services (Alberta). And more Socialist provinces to pay more, but have more services (Québec).

I have alot of ideas of the sort... I should make my own thread.

End is; the Status Quo aint working. Better change, or this country won't last the next century.

I understand what you mean. But it is hard for me, too, because I don't know much about Canada political system or interested in them. And the only reason I came here was because of the assignment i had to do in school.
But it's also true that I've become intrested in the topic after debating about it in class.
It seems that Quebec has so many privilleges that it's almost a separate nation from Canada, which is exactly why Quebec should stay with Canada.
I know Canada spent a lot of money on Quebec just so it would be part of Canada. Right now, it seems that Quebec is just receiving, and Canada is giving in to what Quebec demands - alot.

I hope people from Quebec wouldn't be offended by what I wrote, but it's my opinion. If I said anything wrong, please feel free to point it out. Thanks.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I know Canada spent a lot of money on Quebec just so it would be part of Canada. Right now, it seems that Quebec is just receiving, and Canada is giving in to what Quebec demands - alot.

That's not exactly accurate. Quebec gets a lot of money because it's where the votes are. If Saskatchewan had their population and a tendency to supply the seats to make or break a government, Saskatchewan would get the money.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn

I understand what you mean. But it is hard for me, too, because I don't know much about Canada political system or interested in them. And the only reason I came here was because of the assignment i had to do in school.
But it's also true that I've become intrested in the topic after debating about it in class.
It seems that Quebec has so many privilleges that it's almost a separate nation from Canada, which is exactly why Quebec should stay with Canada.
I know Canada spent a lot of money on Quebec just so it would be part of Canada. Right now, it seems that Quebec is just receiving, and Canada is giving in to what Quebec demands - alot.

I hope people from Quebec wouldn't be offended by what I wrote, but it's my opinion. If I said anything wrong, please feel free to point it out. Thanks.

It's true, we (Québec) have fought to gain control over certain aspects of our society. The federal goverment had to change certain things, or a referendum would of been won a long time ago.
Canada doesnt spend more here per citizen, then it does else where. We just have services that are offered by the provincial goverment, but are offered by the Feds in the rest of Canada. The RCMP for one, isnt present in Québec. We also have our own pension plan. National day care program. Integration of immigrants is also the responsibility of the Province, instead of the federal goverment (As it is for the RoC*).

Alot more could be said to why we receive more from the Federal goverment.

**RoC= Rest of Canada

 

[Andem]

RE: Quebec shouldn

There's nothing special about having services unique to the province. Ontario also does not have the RCMP like the rest of Canada, we have our own OPP.

But the extra services the Quebec government provides drain the funding from other responsibilities like Infrastructure. Quebec roads are horrible! Montreal is pothole city!

If it wasn't for the federal government, Numure, the métro wouldn't be undergoing this revilitisation and reparation.

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn

Any ideas on how to establish 'equality' on that front?

What is it you're looking for - to be "equal" to the rest of Canada... or to the rest of the world? Quebec is no more or no less than any other province.

If this is your chief complaint, I think you're in for a rude awakening should Quebec ever separate. You think other countries, particularly the U.S., give a rat's patootie about making you "feel equal" when it comes to your language?

C'mon. I live near Vancouver. There are many signs here in Cantonese or Mandarine. Some areas you'll find signs where Punjabi is the prominent language. Do I as an Anglophone feel my language is threatened? No.

Sorry, Lady C, here in Louisiana the French Language is a LEGAL Language and EQUAL to English and Spanish! Our Ballots are printed in French and English here! We are more like New Brunswick and even our Stop Signs say STOP-ARRET! In the US, there is no OFFICIAL NATIONAL LANGUAGE, so we could start conducting business in Spanish at any time! Spanish is our Secondary Language since all Gov't bulletins are now printed also in Spanish. Income Tax Form are available in a myriad of Foriegn Languages!

However, Quebec had better do something about their low birth rate if they hope for French to survive 200 years, even Anglophones are a minority in California! Spanish is the language of choice in about 25 states.

Latin lasted until 500 AD and it was surplanted by the Goths, Franks and Huns who made the roots of the modern languages of Europe evolve!

Like you, I don't feel threatened, just I happen to understand the dynamics of change and I am willing to change!

 

[AXL]

Numure said something about the Federal government losing a large portion of their revenue. What about the provincial equalization payments through which Quebec recieves more than any other province. Last year Quebec recieved $4.5 billion which is $3.4 billion less than any other province not to mention that Ontario and Alberta actually had to pay money into that fund. Quebec is also expected to recieve about $10 billion for social services and health care in the next year. Do not even try to tell me that Quebec would not suffer from the loss of that money.[/quote]

 

[AXL]

Numure said something about the Federal government losing a large portion of their revenue. What about the provincial equalization payments through which Quebec recieves more than any other province. Last year Quebec recieved $4.5 billion which is $3.4 billion less than any other province not to mention that Ontario and Alberta actually had to pay money into that fund. Quebec is also expected to recieve about $10 billion for social services and health care in the next year. Do not even try to tell me that Quebec would not suffer from the loss of that money.

 

[Andem]

You've got very valid points, AXL. I'm sure you've learned them very well by living in Ottawa right across the river from Hull. Thanks for posting that.

Quebec obviously gets far more than their share, but I wonder if it's just the feds bribing the province or if it's because many of the recent Prime Ministers have certain connections to the province? EIther way, it's not right and fair to the rest of Canada -- especially Ontario, BC & Alberta who make their money seemingly for the people [separatists] who want to tear Canada apart.

 

[DasFX]

The argument for Quebec to remain in Canada should not be based on economics. Of course the economics of a split are important to consider, but if you really want to make an argument to the Quebecois to remain, you have to affect them emotionally.

Most Quebecois didn't look at the economic predictions and financial reports before voting in the last referendum; they voted the way they felt.

This federation can work, if we really want it to. Contrary to what most other English Canucks things, I believe it is English Canada that must change rather than Quebec.

The first thing is we must drop two attitudes, the first is "if they want to leave, then let them" and the other is "well let them try, we'll bring in the military". Both stances are childish and unproductive. English Canadians must put themselves in a French Canadian's shoes.

I have never heard a Quebecois person say that they are not free, that they are persecuted, that they are treated badly, that they have not civil liberties. This is not the issue.

The biggest issue is language and culture, more specifically the preservation of them. Being a minority is tough! There are about 7 million francophone in North America, compared to over 300 million Anglophones. Plus there are over 100 million Spanish speakers. The Quebecois do not want to be assimilated. There is nothing wrong with that!

Quebec feel disjointed from the rest of the country; they feel separate already. English Canadians need to try to understand why; they need to listen.

If you were to really read and listen to what some Quebecois have proposed in the past for a renewed federation, it would sound very similar to what many in the west want.

A country is supposed to be like a Family, if a member is unhappy, you do not simply kick them to the curb. Both sides will have to compromise, however I do not feel that any major concessions need to be made. All we need is open minded people on both sides understand the needs of the other and understand them. Having our Liberal or Conservative government negotiate with the BQ of PQ is pointless; they have their own agendas and have one-track minds. We need the average French and English Canadian to sit down and talk.

 

[Proud_to_be_English]

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.

 

[missile]

We have our own little band of separatists here,in the Republic de Madawaska! Expect the bombings to begin anytime soon!

 

[Proud_to_be_English]

I would not be opposed to NB being divided into 2 provinces, one English speaking and one French as long as the English one included Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

I would not be opposed to NB being divided into 2 provinces, one English speaking and one French as long as the English one included Saint John, Fredericton and Moncton.

Why would Moncton be in the English part of NB? Moncton is very French. Besides, NB is small enough and has a tough enough time surviving as it is, can you image it cut into two with only 400,000 people each. This is why Mr. Lord is premier and not you.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Quebec shouldn't separate from Canada

I believe that quebec should separate. The rest of Canada has no desire to have french forced upon us. Most of the liberal politicians in Ottawa are quebecois themselves. The English-speaking majority has been severely misrepresented for far too long. If they want to phase English out of Quebec and separate then I say let them. The presence of french in the rest of Canada should be thusly not given any less of a fate. You may call me a propagator of hatred and bigotry but this is simply a mirror of what is currently taking place in quebec. If you want to point a finger then do so at the Bloc.

French is forced upon you?

I'm from Ontario and of French desent, but raised an Anglo. I could only wish someone would force French on me so I could learn the language.