Progessive Genius: Don't Use Word "Abortion."

[CDNBear]

Last time I checked, human life by itself meant very little. "Any male in a targeted area is considered a militant," being the latest ethical glossing.

You'll have to expand on that for me.

It is not that it is out of sight or gross. The fact of the matter remains, the blastula could (in principle) be separated from the remnants of the lining of the uterus after taking the abortion pill. Since this is the case, it is clearly not murder. The cellular death arises because society deems it not worthwhile to go to the effort of preserving it. The same is true of the morning after pill and even aspiration in most cases. In most cases there is no active destruction, merely removal from a host.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't negate what I said.

In fact, it sounds like a fancy way of saying the same thing.

I have a horrible tendency to believe the truth. Can you refute a single point? Good luck trying.

I'll take that challenge.

The anti-abortion stance is just a screen for what they really value, imposition of their religious beliefs on others.

I'm not religious.

In fact I believe there are a multitude of rather weak reasons to take another's life.

But I have a deep respect for life.

For the most part, I'm anti abortion.

But I'm pro choice.

So the fact that I think abortion has become a form of unthinking, irresponsible birth control, is the imposition of my religious beliefs on others how?

I have a horrible tendency to believe the truth.

According to your narrow and bigoted perception maybe.

 

[Locutus]

Some idealogues will claim the other side just because it is that. The opposing view of their so-called 'foe'. Not for any sane principle though. Just because it's the other side of your fence. Jump it and stand there making faces and perhaps throwing their poo into your yard, who knows.

Other stealthier cretins may follow an obtuse tangent of bizarre reasoning to the bitter end because to admit the true reason they oppose your view would just look silly, childish and highly partisan, like it actually was in the first place. The Debating Society mentality.

I think I found a team photo of one such group of gallant gum flappers:

 

[DaSleeper]

I have a horrible tendency to believe the truth. Can you refute a single point? Good luck trying.

Your truth is absolute delusion....The onus is on you to prove that stupid statement...

Anti-abortionists for the most part are also anti-family planning, anti-birth control pill, anti IUD, etc. etc. The anti-abortion stance is just a screen for what they really value, imposition of their religious beliefs on others.

 

[Niflmir]

You'll have to expand on that for me.

The Obama administration made a public declaration that they consider any military aged males in a targeted area to be a militant. So in any given explosion there are Militants, Women or Children.

So the fact that I think abortion has become a form of unthinking, irresponsible birth control, is the imposition of my religious beliefs on others how?

Abortion as a form of regular birth control is definitely irresponsible. It is also a very difficult decision for most people that confront it. Some people take the hard road and decide to have a child despite the fact that there will not be a father, despite the fact that their career is endangered. The real goal should be to make a society where it is easier for women to make this choice. Having a child shouldn't close doors for a woman.

 

[CDNBear]

The Obama administration made a public declaration that they consider any military aged males in a targeted area to be a militant. So in any given explosion there are Militants, Women or Children.

That's a ridiculous claim by the Administration.

Since it wasn't part of his platform, and we aren't talking about the US, it bears no weight on the opinion of Canadian society, IMHO.

Abortion as a form of regular birth control is definitely irresponsible. It is also a very difficult decision for most people that confront it. Some people take the hard road and decide to have a child despite the fact that there will not be a father, despite the fact that their career is endangered. The real goal should be to make a society where it is easier for women to make this choice. Having a child shouldn't close doors for a woman.

I can't argue with that.

 

[Niflmir]

That's a ridiculous claim by the Administration.

Since it wasn't part of his platform, and we aren't talking about the US, it bears no weight on the opinion of Canadian society, IMHO.

I can't argue with that.

It is a general trend in humanity, which is why I bring it up. I have particular views about morality which I have indicated in this thread--that there is no inherent worth to human life--so I jump on any indication that people in the world are willing to readily accept this when it is convenient. The examples in Canada are much less clear, but mourning our soldiers much more than we mourn innocents killed in Afghanistan would be a place to argue from in Canada (but it is a very nuanced argument to start from there).

You could take abortion as the evidence of that moral statement, but in this thread it would just be circular reasoning. Since I want to justify abortion on the grounds that human life has no inherent worth (which is a much harsher stance than most people feel the need to take) I try to show that humans already believe that to be true. Since I think it is a human quality and not a cultural quality, I use an obvious example from another culture. Since most abortions do not actively destroy the embryo, one only really needs the principle that it is morally ok to let something cease living. So, the fact that most people feel no moral obligation to feed the starving is also sufficient.

 

[Bar Sinister]

You'll have to expand on that for me.

That's all well and good, but it doesn't negate what I said.

In fact, it sounds like a fancy way of saying the same thing.

I'll take that challenge.

I'm not religious.

In fact I believe there are a multitude of rather weak reasons to take another's life.

But I have a deep respect for life.

For the most part, I'm anti abortion.

But I'm pro choice.

So the fact that I think abortion has become a form of unthinking, irresponsible birth control, is the imposition of my religious beliefs on others how?

According to your narrow and bigoted perception maybe.

Sounds like your usual load of unsupported BS. I was not referring to you personally. The point is that the majority of anti-abortionists are linked to one religion or another whether they be Christians or Muslims or whatever, religion is lurking in the background. The fact that your beliefs are not based on religion makes you an exception to the rule, not the norm. That said your claim to be both pro-choice and anti-abortion specious at best. That's like claiming you like pickles, but never eat them because you can't stand the taste.

I challenged Dasleeper to prove me wrong. He couldn't do it. And you haven't either. Give me some real evidence, not some anecdotal BS. Or are you going to resort to your usual dodge - insults and innuendo?

BTW if you think my beliefs are narrow and bigoted then you really are out of touch with reality. But that certainly would not be the first time would it?

 

[gerryh]

No, birth control is birth control. Abortion simply happens to be the most effective method. Anti-abortionists for the most part are also anti-family planning, anti-birth control pill, anti IUD, etc. etc. The anti-abortion stance is just a screen for what they really value, imposition of their religious beliefs on others.

Your statement is without back up and in my opinion without merit. Therefore it is pure bullshyte.

 

[CDNBear]

Sounds like your usual load of unsupported BS.

No, those are your posts you're thinking of.

I was not referring to you personally.

Ya, I know. You were just making a great big silly, unsupported and generalized statement.

The point is that the majority of anti-abortionists are linked to one religion or another whether they be Christians or Muslims or whatever, religion is lurking in the background.

That isn't what you said though.

The fact that your beliefs are not based on religion makes you an exception to the rule, not the norm.

That looks suspiciously unsupported.

That said your claim to be both pro-choice and anti-abortion specious at best.(*)

I would have thought you were lying, if you said anything to the contrary.

Simply because of my previous observation.

That's like claiming you like pickles, but never eat them because you can't stand the taste.

No, it would be more like saying I like pickles, but don't like them sliced. But having to explain that to you, likely means you won't understand, and is simple evidence, my observation was bang on.

I challenged Dasleeper to prove me wrong. And you haven't either.

Actually, I did, if you don't try and change what you said.

Give me some real evidence, not some anecdotal BS.

Your accusation was void anything of substance, so demanding a higher standard of others, is just silly.

Or are you going to resort to your usual dodge - insults and innuendo?

Ummm....

BTW if you think my beliefs are narrow and bigoted then you really are out of touch with reality.

Irony aside. Actually, you just supplied more evidence that supports my observation. See *.

But that certainly would not be the first time would it?

Speaking of dodges - insults and innuendo, lol.

The funny thing about your ironic, albeit humourous closing tyraid is, it supplied evidence that supports the dichotomy of man, that you called specious.

 

[DaSleeper]

I challenged Dasleeper to prove me wrong. He couldn't do it.

Will not ....... for the reason below

These last few pages with you remind me of an old proverb.....Never argue with a fool,they will lower you to their level,then beat you with experience