Poverty in Canada.

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
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Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Reverend Blair said:
There will always be those who take advantage of any system, Twila. They don't define the whole group though, in fact they make up a very small portion of it.

One of the things about out present system is that it encourages cheating though. If somebody is making $300 a month on welfare and they can work a couple days a week for cash, they certainly will, for instance.

That puts them in the position of being "scammers" but what they are really trying to do is survive.
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This point is interesting in that the only people who can't keep extra money they get are the poorest!

Sure, I understand that if they get their own money, they must not take welfare, but as Rev said most of these labeled scammers are on the cusp - who would begrude even $500 or $1000 a few times a year to people getting welfare? They will need it for something, and it is not like it is steady income. I think that rule is too strict.

What really blows is the the DISABLED are under the same 'welfare' system, at least in BC and Alberta. This means that they too have to give back [or give out of next month's cheque] most of any gifts, earned income, etc. too. Their suituation is for a lifetime remember, no savings allowed.

Some disabled people are physically able to earn money, they just cant hold a job with regular hours and full shifts due to their disability.

Many disabled can't physically earn anything, but they might get income, maybe inheritance or friends or family, a lotto ticket - would you begrudge them buying a $1 lotto ticket? - It is a shame they can't keep it.

After just a few months on the "under $1000/mo income" like most disabled on provincial government welfare recieve, there are those expenses that come along and blow the budget - No new clothes for years on end.... the TV quits after 10 years... dental work not covered... cars are impossible to have, despite their practicality for people with mobility problems. $1000 doesn't go far.

Geez, they can't have any nestegg savings either. To qualify for disability or welfare is the same rule - , you have to have spent all you have first, no savings allowed. Some got to keep their mortgage/house , but no cash or investments, assets [other than a house] have a maximum value too, cars can be worth no more than $5000. Its true.

One more point - the MLA's salary raise in BC includes about $75,000 in pension benefits increase, and a salary increase of $11,000 per year.
Just the salary portion, just the increase, is more than their disabled citizen's entire annual income. And they don't get to keep any increases to that!
 

CanadianPrincess

New Member
Nov 16, 2005
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Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Durgan said:
Twila said:
Addicted poor people will spend money on cigs despite it being unbudgetable, addictions are just like that.

Yep, when I was a single mom on welfare I would forgo a lot of things to have my smokes. I remember 1 day deny my daughter bread and milk to have smokes. The next day I made an appointment with my doctor and got Zyban to quit smoking. It's all about choices......I guess

It's about being poor. being poor has side effects other than giving up or not having material things.

What being poor means, not all but some.

http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/003704.html

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway....

The ultimate human rights abuse is having poor in a land of plenty.
Durgan.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I personally know the effects of being poor. In this past year I have somehow managed to live on $6000 lent to me for living expenses from Canada Student Loan. I have also done some piece work (I bet there's lots of people that don't even know what that is)

Basically, I spend all my money on cigarettes and paying previous debts. Therefore, even when you are working full time, and making a decent amount, when you start out in the hole, its not easy to climb back out of it.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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I quit smoking about twenty years ago

and it was tough. I know tobacco is a terrible addiction but looking back I think, "what a dolt I was to waste good money on an obvious health hazzard". Today, at five something or six bucks a pack, smoking is truly stupidity, but it is a stupidity that I indulged myself in for quite a few years so anyone who smokes has at least my understanding.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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It is a so hard to quit, I have tried so many times, I just gave up trying to quit. zyban,patch,laser treatment never worked, but I only smoke one pack a day now. 5 years ago I was smoking 2 if not 3 packs a day.
 

CanadianPrincess

New Member
Nov 16, 2005
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#juan said:
I quit smoking about twenty years ago

and it was tough. I know tobacco is a terrible addiction but looking back I think, "what a dolt I was to waste good money on an obvious health hazzard". Today, at five something or six bucks a pack, smoking is truly stupidity, but it is a stupidity that I indulged myself in for quite a few years so anyone who smokes has at least my understanding.

Jeepers...where are you buying your cigarettes? A package of cigarettes here costs up and around $11...the largest tobacco can you can purchase is around $60. You can buy cheap made cigarettes which are about $9...I'd love to live where you are!!!!!

I personally spend about $200 a month on tobacco...ridiculous isn't it?

Smoking has not only become expensive, but also a hassle. We smokers are being discriminated against everywhere. A woman walked past me and friend the other day (twice I might add) and covered her mouth and gave us a look. It made me angry...we are not inconsiderate smokers. We hold it away when people come around, and don't blow smoke in their faces, or up their a$$es.

As for the government; if they really want us to quit, and if they really don't want to provide health care for smoking related issues, then I say ban it all together. Stop making the stuff. This should be in a thread all its own though......so I'll stop there.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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You're "poor" and the one satisfaction you get is a smoke here and there, so the leftist government of Canada says, raise the taxes on them to draconian levels....that should do it. Now you can't afford to smoke. :roll:

I wonder if this has led to an increase in crime.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Das Kapital
Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Jay said:
I wonder if this has led to an increase in crime.

I can't remember the last time I bought a pack at the store, you?

*sniff* I miss my Benson 100's.
 

CanadianPrincess

New Member
Nov 16, 2005
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Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Jay said:
You're "poor" and the one satisfaction you get is a smoke here and there, so the leftist government of Canada says, raise the taxes on them to draconian levels....that should do it. Now you can't afford to smoke. :roll:

I wonder if this has led to an increase in crime.

Some people will do anything to satisfy an addiction, so I have no doubt.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Said1 said:
Jay said:
I wonder if this has led to an increase in crime.

I can't remember the last time I bought a pack at the store, you?


Unfortunately, that is one connection I don't have....
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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Jeepers...where are you buying your cigarettes? A package of cigarettes here costs up and around $11.

I plead ignorance. I was sure I saw a sign at a gas station that was advertising cigarettes for $6.00/package and $60/carton.

$300 a month? Wow, that is an expensive habit. When I quit they were about a buck and a quarter a pack. I'm glad I quit when I did. It would break my heart to spend $300 a month for the damn things.
 

Durgan

Durgan
Oct 19, 2005
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Brantford, ON
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It would appears the main cause poverty in Canada is the high price of tobacco products, using the responses to the initial post as indicators.

Conclusion: Poverty in Canada is self inflicted wound s caused by the choice of life-style.

quod erat demonstrandum

Durgan.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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I think "poverty wages" (anything under 11$ an hour) is part of the problem. Food has gone up a lot, so have rent and house prices, booze and tobacco, gasoline, heating costs and yet wages and wage increases do not seem to keep pace with inflation.

There are too many employers that pay "poverty wages" like Wal Mart, other big box stores, fast food joints, conveinence stores. Basically unless you work in a union environment you are going to have trouble finding a job that pays a liveable wage, unless you have a degree.

Wehn I graduated in 1985 a lot of manufacturing and production jobs paid 8-12 bucks an hour and they still pay those wages today usually 8-10 an hour according to jobs in paper. I know when I worked for Olympic meats for one year I was making 12 an hour to start in 85, when I quit in 86 the starting wage was 8$. Like wtf?

Then you have morons like Campbell instuting a "training wage" so places like McDonalds can pay people six bucks an hour for first 500 hours before they have to start paying 8 an hour. I worked at McDonalds in high school and you don't need more than a couple hours to be trained, let alone 500 hours and that goes for any job that pays the low end of the "poverty wage".

The minimum wage should be 12$ an hour. Business's and Corperations will cry but if you can not pay a descent liveable wage, then maybe they should not be in business and really in most cities in Canada 12 bucks an hour is not very much, even for a single person who would have trouble living on 12 bucks an hour.

Plus low wages is a burden on the governments as well. If you are making a low wage you get most if not all of your medical premiums paid,pay less tax to government,suffer from being stigmatized and suffer from depression and low self esteem from being poor (In BC if you have a mental illness you get free anti-depressants if you can not afford them), and are forced to rely on various social programs to get by not to mention charities like food and clothing banks.

Companies that pay low wages with no benifits really do a dis-service to society. They should be ashamed of themselves.
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
Re: RE: Poverty in Canada.

Jay said:
You're "poor" and the one satisfaction you get is a smoke here and there, so the leftist government of Canada says, raise the taxes on them to draconian levels....that should do it. Now you can't afford to smoke. :roll:

I wonder if this has led to an increase in crime.
The cigarette smuggling here is at it's all time high.Many are buying the smokes taxfree at the Reserves and then reselling them to the general populace for about 30 bucks per carton[as they're around 10 bucks a pack here,there are no shortage of customers for the illegals]. Another thing: when the small convenience stores are robbed,cigarettes are always taken[along with all the cash!]
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Minimum wage issues are even worsened by global free trade.

You saw this with the French decrying the "Polish plumber," the kind of character who is willing to show up any hour of the night, work 18 hours in one day for cheaper wages.
 

CanadianPrincess

New Member
Nov 16, 2005
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#juan said:
Jeepers...where are you buying your cigarettes? A package of cigarettes here costs up and around $11.

I plead ignorance. I was sure I saw a sign at a gas station that was advertising cigarettes for $6.00/package and $60/carton.

$300 a month? Wow, that is an expensive habit. When I quit they were about a buck and a quarter a pack. I'm glad I quit when I did. It would break my heart to spend $300 a month for the damn things.

Believe me, it does break my heart. I have been trying to cut back recently. The sad thing however, is that it's not because of the health risks.

Cigarettes probably are cheaper where you live. I've been all across Canada and Nova Scotia is rather expensive with a lot things, including cigarettes.
 

Durgan

Durgan
Oct 19, 2005
248
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16
Brantford, ON
www.durgan.org
A Somali arrives in Toronto a new immigrant to Canada.
He has heard that Canada is very diverse and there are many
immigrants from different countries.

He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and
says, "Thank you Mr. Canadian for letting me in this Country!"
The Canadian says, "Welome."

The man goes on and encounters another passer-by.
"Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in Canada!"
The person says "Welcome, I am glad you appreciate this beautiful country."

The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he
stops, shakes his hand and says "Thank you for the wonderful Canada!"
That person puts up his hand and says "Nice that you apprecite this country.

He finally sees a nice lady and asks suspiciously,
"Are you a Canadian? She says, "Yes!"
So he is puzzled, and asks her, "Where are all the immigrants?"
The lady looks at her watch, shrugs, and says...
"Probably at work."