Portfolio Management Canada Inc.

[Ron in Regina]

your supposed "account" was active only 15yrs ago?
isn't there some general practice where after 7 years you're clear?
my brother had a load of debt when he was younger, and avoided his creditors saying after 7 years his 'accounts' would be cleared.
not sure if this is actually the case `

Seven Years is for broken mirrors. Debts in Canada die in six. Stat-Bar.
I hate those rhyming lessons but they stay with you for ever...

 

[Ron in Regina]

i just started getting called from portfolio about an old stereo account that they have on me. it is over 6 years old. if i don't pay what can they do

If it has been more than six years since your last payment on the account (NOT when you incurred the debt),
then they can do nothing, and point out the dates (calmly and rationally) to whomever is calling you, as they
must be new (and under-trained), and have them have their office manager to explain the significance of the
time span to them. A screaming match does nothing for either end of the call. Be the bigger person and have
the last laugh.

 

[Ron in Regina]

OK....I've been out of collections for enough years now (thank God), and I just talked to a Buddy
that's still in that game, and I've been wrong 3 postings in a row now. Stat-bar is 7 years, not 6...
I'm going to back to arguing Politics.

My time in third party collections predates these automated calls I've been reading about too...

 

[Alchemy]

to address confusion on limitation periods

hopefully this will answer peoples questions on statute of limitations in Ontario
the following is taken from the limitations act 2002 ontario
full document can be viewed at the following url

http://www.canlii.org/on/laws/sta/2002c.24sch.b/20080716/whole.html#BK6

hope this helps

Basic Limitation Period
Basic limitation period
4. Unless this Act provides otherwise, a proceeding shall not be commenced in respect of a claim after the second anniversary of the day on which the claim was discovered. 2002, c. 24, Sched. B, s. 4.
Discovery
5. (1) A claim is discovered on the earlier of,
(a) the day on which the person with the claim first knew,
(i) that the injury, loss or damage had occurred,
(ii) that the injury, loss or damage was caused by or contributed to by an act or omission,
(iii) that the act or omission was that of the person against whom the claim is made, and
(iv) that, having regard to the nature of the injury, loss or damage, a proceeding would be an appropriate means to seek to remedy it; and
(b) the day on which a reasonable person with the abilities and in the circumstances of the person with the claim first ought to have known of the matters referred to in clause (a). 2002, c. 24, Sched. B, s. 5 (1).

 

[Alchemy]

for those dealing with Aktiv Kapital, they claim they are not governed by the collection agency act. this is false in at least one respect. they claim on thier website to not only do debt aquisition but third party collections, if they are operation as a collection agency they would be governed by the act and it could be argued if they are using the same employees for collection of purchased debts they would also be governed under the act. I am not a lawyer but it could be argued.

if ex employee could confirm this is their practice it would be greatly appreciated

 

[collections101]

Some Calrification perhaps...

I have read numerous posts from all kinds of sites, and I think some clarification is in order.
1. There are only 3 provinces which require a debt to be extinguished after 6 years: BC, Alberta and Newfoundland.
2. Other than the 3 above mentioned provinces, the Statute of Limitations ONLY APPLIES to legal action. In other words, if you have a debt that is 10 years old in Ontario, the company cannot sue you, but they can continue to collect until the end of time.
3. PMG/Aktiv Kapital does NOT resell their debts. They do however have forwarding agents that act as 3rd party collections for them.
4. The statute in Ontario is 2 years, IF your last date of activity was post Jan 1st 2004. If the Last date of activity was prior to this date, the 6yr limit is still in effect.
5. It is the debtors responsability to supply proof of payment/letter of release if the debt was previously paid. Debt acquisitions companies have no control over the original creditor reopening your account by mistake.
6. PMG/Aktiv Kapital is not a scam. It is a legitimate company which was opened over 10 years ago by attorneys. In 2005 the company was sold to a large conglomerate out of Norway, called Aktiv Kapital

 

[collections101]

By the way Alchemy

If you follow Inside ARM, you would be aware that Aktiv Kapital is no longer in the Contingency/3rd party collections business

 

[collections101]

hi dear friends dealing with scammers, excuse my English but Ill do my best.

First, i got a letter from Portfolio Mgmt last autumn, just after I asked a credit report to equifax, which was a good thing I did. They said I owed near 2000$ from Amex but that debt is old and nothing showed on my credit report at all from them. And also what convinced me first to doubt about Portfolio is that they have ILLEGALY used I am sure the logo of AMEX on their own letter with their own address pretending this was from Amex !!! unbelievable! I didn't answer after I checked this place and they sent me 2 other letters before and after Christmas. I replied that my credit report was ok and that I didn't owe anything to them anymore and told them they were known on this site for being scammers and that they used the Amex logo with no rights to do so.They stopped sending me letters for 4 months until now, with their new company Aktiv Kapital. They just say that they changed their name without mentioning who they were before like they were ashamed of it. ;-) but that letter sounded more professional , as the other ones really lacked intelligence, it was poorly written, with slogans to make me want to pay them like they were doing me a favor, like they were selling me a car. And now they have sent me a copy of my bill with the amount on it and account number BUT it is dated from spring 2002!


so
my question please, even their supposed proof isn't good since its older than 6 yrs right?
and if nothing appears on my credit report, then I don't owe anything?
they are scammers anyway by using the Amex logo and they wont even call me at home, collectors who know they have rights to collect will call you right away I bet.

Thanks, Ill put more info if needed later. I cant believe that some people do that for a living, to harass people with no feeling of remorse. Poor people...they are poorer than we are...

First off, the company is not a scam, and you all may be pissed off at having debts, but that doesnt give you the right to be demeaning to others, just because of their profession.
2nd...if the letter was sent to you with an AMEX logo, then it was a 3rd party agency letter, not the acquisitions side. This means the account had been forwarded to them to collect on behalf of AMEX, and they are REQUIRED to use the AMEX logo in this case.
If your newest letter does not have the AMEX logo(and it wont, because they no longer do 3rd party collections) then you have an ouitstanding AMEX card which has now been SOLD to AK.

 

[collections101]

I would alo like to make everyone one aware of the definition of "WRITTEN OFF"
This does not mean you are no longer liable for your debt.
It means that your account has been listed on the original creditors books as "WRITTEN OFF, BAD DEBT"
The original creditors can then use the total amounts of these accounts as setoffs towards their taxes.
You still OWE THE MONEY!

 

[leafssuck]

"doesnt give you the right to be demeaning to others, just because of their profession. "
That is a good one,it has to come from a collector. Collectors are the most demeaning people out there with their talking down and insulting superior attitudes. Yes PMG/Acktiv are a legitamate company but their tactics are sneaky, dirty and they do not always follow the law. On stat barred loans the only way they can get money is to trick people into paying them.They know upfront a loan is stat-barred so just the fact they even attempt to collect it tells you they have no problem using deceit and tricks because that is all they have.

 

[collections101]

Of course you would think that I must be a collector.
However, you dont know anything about me, so I wouldnt jump to conclusions if I were you. The fact of the matter is that I know a number of people in the profession, and they get a bum rap. Just because YOU may have dealt with a jerk, doesnt mean they are all like that. Its like saying all plumbers show their buttcracks, or all teens are immature, rebellious no good brats. Its just not right to lump everyone into one general category, and shows a lack of breeding to be that prejudiced.

 

[leafssuck]

Maybe its your lack of breeding that makes you so blind.Just read all the posts on this topic and there is a hell of a lot more people than just me that has the same opinion of collector scum. You can read posts at other forums like this ,same story.So when it comes to collectors the main opinion of them is the same. Maybe you are collector maybe not i dont really care,your comments sure sound like one though. You cantalk about collectors getting a bum rap,but the bottom line is they deserve it.The nature of their business is that they have to threaten and lie and use anything they can to meet their quotas and get their commision.

 

[collections101]

"there is a hell of a lot more people than just me that has the same opinion of collector scum. You can read posts at other forums like this ,same story"

these would all be people that have outstanding debts??? oh, yes, the cream of the crop. They dont pay their bills, they try to avoid it, they change their #s, and say they arent home...lol THESE are the people who so readily call others "scum"???
Look, I dont disagree that it sucks when you paid something and dont keep the receipt. Then someone out of nowhere calls you up and says "hey, guess what, no proof? sorry, pay your bill" because really, how many people do you think SAY they paid, when they really didnt? I was in this situation, and the 3 people I dealt with at Portfolio were decent. They understood that I probably had paid the bill, but I didnt keep my receipt. I mean, come on...when you pay off your car/house, you dont throw the deed/ownership papers away, do you? Why should a credit card be any different. Besides the % of people who paid it prior is a lot less than the ones who didnt pay at all. Think about it. There are millions of delinquent accounts in Canada alone, and only what 70 people on here complaining? Do the math.
The fact of the matter is, if people actually paid their bills, instead of trying to avoid them, there wouldnt be a need for collection agencies, now would there???

 

[leafssuck]

Yes you are right if all the bills were paid there wouldnt be a need for collectors.But the problem is you seem to assume that most people that have delinquent accounts are doing it to not pay and hide etc.Well its not the case,people dont intend to ruin their credit rating for years and have to live with constant calls and letters.Sure there are some that do it on purpose but i am sure the majority dont plan it. You are lumping all people with outstanding debts as criminals when you accuse people on here for calling collectors names etc and lumping them all together. Which is it ? You cant have it both ways. People shouldnt have to worry about keeping receipts etc for paid bills.These collectors want the people to do their work for them.Sure its a good idea to keep the receipts as it makes things easier when something comes up. But the onus is on the collectors to prove you owe that money and unlesss they can they should take a hike.

 

[Alchemy]

If you follow Inside ARM, you would be aware that Aktiv Kapital is no longer in the Contingency/3rd party collections business

although this announcement was made effective july 7th, it was just this week that their website was updated to relect this new direction.

although this was a canadian announcement the parent company seems to still be active in 3rd party debt collection
the link to the comany's page is active as of today and states it will a prime focus or sumthing to that effect

http://corp.aktivkapital.com/en/Our-business/Debt-Collection/

 

[Alchemy]

ok collections101, i have an item that has been in dispute since 2001, I have told both the original creditor and Aktiv Kapital to take me to court as I have full documentation that there is no debt, yet continue to be harrassed by this company you defend so strongly.

what recourse would you reccommend for such untoward behavior?

if a collection agency or the original creditor cannont contact you after you have asked them by registered mail to take the matter to court, why would aktiv capital be exempt from the law?

 

[london50]

Alchemy, contact their legal counsel:

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']V.P. Strategy and Corporate Counsel - Suzanne Larouche[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Phone: 866.764.7688[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']If you have told them to stop contacting you and you put it in writing, their counsel wont allow their company to continue contacting you. [/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Also, I read earlier on this post a question of whether or not they have to follow the debt collection act. As a debt buyer in Canada, they are only governed by the collections act in a few provinces. I will have to do some research on which ones but I believe it is only Alberta and Saskatachewan and Nova Scotia. The other provinces dont force debt buyers to follow the normal collections act. If anyone has any issues with them, call their legal counsel or their other executive.[/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Country Manager - Rod Hooktwith[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
Phone: 866.764.7688 [/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']V.P. Strategy and Corporate Counsel - Suzanne Larouche[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Phone: 866.764.7688[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']I also found the name of the collections manager from their website:[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']A.V.P. Collections – Marshall Spence[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']
Phone: 866.764.7688[/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/FONT]

 

[Alchemy]

hmmm, thanks london50

if that is the case.... it may be time for a court challenge, if collection agencies are governed by the act (as we all know they are) in acting as an agent for the original creditor, it should go to reason that the same conduct would be expected of the original creditor( or purchaser of alleged debt.

also in the case of Aktiv Kapital, if thier primary business or sole source of income is from collections and there is no service or product they offer, they should be included under the act.

 

[london50]

The debt buyers position is that because they have purchased the debt and now own it, they are in fact the first party creditor and should not be governed by the Act. Similar to Visa, MasterCard, Rogers, etc as all those creditors are not governed by any collection act as the account is theirs. I am not saying this is right, but I am sure this is their position.

My thoughts are that the difference between the creditors named above is that they are all collecting on current debt or debt less than 180 days delinquent, while these debt buyers have purchased the write off debts which are older. As mentioned earlier in this thread, a written off or charged off account is still collectable by a third party collection agency or a debt buyer but maybe the collections act should state that any agency (regardless if they are a third party or first party) that try and collect charged off debts should have to follow the collections act?? If the argument is not presented this way to the collections ministries, then the Visas, Rogers, etc of the world would also have to follow the collections act and the government would never pass that legislation.

Question - how does an individual try and get the ministry to change collection laws?

 

[Alchemy]

as i mentioned earlier, another notable difference between the parties you mentioned above and the buyer of alleged debts is that they do provide a tangible service to the consumer. rogers, visa mastercard etc have a direct relationship with the consumer (regardless of how dysfunctional or one sided it may be) whereas the debt buyer has not. just as a third party collection agency has provided no such service or value to the consumer. it is an entirely one sided relationship that the courts tend to frown on as draconian.

just a thought,

and although you say the gov't would not pass that type of legislation, there is nothing unreasonable about it. Consumers should not have to endure threats, harassment intimidation, extortion, and blackmail just because someone is a first party collector. the restrictions on hours they may call, procedures to stop harassment and everything else in the act does not protect people trying to avoid paying their debts but does protect to a smaller extant abuse. It allows a course of action for someone being unjustly chased for a creditors mistake or omission.
the credit reporting agencies are not in place to serve the public, they are there strictly to serve the interests of the people who pay their paychecks.....the banks credit card companies etc.