PM Martin says NO to Missile Defense

[Andem]

Canada won't fund missile shield: PM
Windsor Star December 15, 2004

Prime Minister Paul Martin said Tuesday he does not believe the U.S. ballistic missile shield will succeed in shooting down incoming rockets, as he threw up new roadblocks to counter President George W. Bush's strong appeal for Canada to join his continental defence plan.

Canada will not put any money into building the missile shield and it will not allow Washington to station rockets on Canadian soil as the price of participation in the multibillion-dollar program, Martin told Global National in a year-end interview.

In another issue that could cause friction with Bush, Martin said Canada was prepared to accept U.S. citizens who do not want to serve in the war in Iraq.

Source

I heard on the radio tonight, a Toronto talk show, that Paul Martin said Canada would not be at all involved in the missile defense plan, a very decisive stance and conversation on talk radio 680. But I am having trouble finding the news story on the Internet that says that, the closest I can find is that Canada will not be spending a penny on this project. Can anybody find something that says that Paul Martin said downright NO to BMD?

The host also said that there will not be any missile defense equipment in Canadian airspace or soil.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

That's been the Martin stance since the beginning...we won't pay but we'll give you a few feet of dirt and out good name.

It doesn't really work that way though. First of all our dirt and our good name is worth something...a lot, actually.

Second of all, Canada's involvement allows the US to tie this to NORAD. We do spend money on NORAD and that spending will necessarly increase under BMD...technology costs money.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Hey! Reverend Blair

The more I watch Martin, the more I'm convinced he is gonna call an election by June.

He is out travelling the world and spouting off some grand ideals which are being carried by the media day after day. Everytime I hear Martin, I always remember a clip I saw on Newsworld about 6 months ago.
There was a small community in Newfoundland whose water well was contaminated. The community does not have the 100 thousand bucks it takes to build a water pipe to a nearby fresh water lake. So, the residents go to a creek somewhere near town and fill 5 gallon buckets to take home.
Some residents had heart conditions and ill health.
And .... this fella Martin is out travelling the world with grandiose ideas!

He is getting all the controversial bills passed. It really isn't costing any money right now.
Martin is scooping the media. He is getting alot of coverage. Where is Layton? The media has side-lined him. The next election should be between the NDP and the Liberals because we already know that Harper will never get a majority.

The Scandal Inquiry is getting pretty tense too.

Calm

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

I wanna know where the hell Layton is too, but that's another matter. You might want to start a thread on it though...I ain't shy. Or quiet.

I'm betting on a fall election. More than a year of things not getting worse and the Liberals can swing a majority. They know that, I know that, the ancient dog farting under my desk knows that.

A spring election will only happen if the oppostion parties force it, but it will only lead to another Liberal (minority or majority depends on the dirt) government.

Look to October and vote for anybody but the Liberal/Conservative Party of Americanized Canada.

 

[Andem]

Rev: I guess you didn't hear what I heard. I know it's a radio talk show and the host could have just been spreading rumours, but he was all FOR missile defense. I don't know why they would say Canada said a hands-down no to it. Hmmm.......

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

I watched Mansbridge interview Martin on Monday night. Martin was waffling a bit on BMD, but he certainly wasn't saying no to it. He's been a strong supporter of it since the beginning but is in a minority government that could fall on the issue, so I interpret that to mean that it's on the backburner until he's in a position to say yes.

 

[no1important]

I have a sneaking suspicion if he had a Majority government his view on this matter would be diferent.

 

[Andem]

You definately make a good point, Rev. But we have two options currently: Keep with the liberal minority government or give the conservatives a minority government. I would prefer the former.

 

[Scape]

Martin said Canada was prepared to accept U.S. citizens who do not want to serve in the war in Iraq.

Seems that Martin is pulling away from Bush. I wouldn't expect him to say no to MDS just yet.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

I think he's starting to look around, realising that a lot of his policies look a lot like Stephen Harper's, and wondering if that isn't pushing people to the NDP or other parties. That's the beauty of minority governments, especially Liberal ones.

The Liberals traditionally run from the left and govern from the right. A minority puts them in election mode all the time though...if they want to govern it has to match where they run from.

If Martin had a majority there would likely be no same-sex marriage bill, we'd be much more involved in Iraq, and BMD would be a done deal.

I think Martin is sending a pretty clear message to Bush too though. Bush kind of snubbed Martin's L-20 plan, softwood lumber negotions are dead, nothing has really happened on BSE, the hog duty just came in, and then Bush stood up and raised the issue of BMD when he was here.

Bush also made some sort of statement about US deserters and the problem being solved when he was here.

So Martin is backing away from BMD and suggesting that people who want to avoid Iraq can immigrate here (he stopped short of offering them refugee status though...he's still playing both sides of the fence). It makes him look like a hero at home and sends a message to Bush that two can play at the political games. It also sends a message to the rest of the world, where Bush is even less popular, that Canada is backing away from the US.

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Martin is beginning to make Chretien look good. I think that Tom D'Quino has Martin salivating at all those military contracts they think are up for grabs.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

If I got my hands on Tommy I'd toss him out of a slow moving car at the nearest border point, naked and bleeding. I don't care if it is -30.

If he wants to be an American so badly, let him go be an American.

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Re: RE: PM Martin says NO to

If I got my hands on Tommy I'd toss him out of a slow moving car at the nearest border point, naked and bleeding. I don't care if it is -30.

If he wants to be an American so badly, let him go be an American.

Can I help push?

 

[Gonzo]

Supporters of Missile Defence say that you have to give a little to the US to have a say in what goes on. Give a little and get a little. But Britain gave in the war in Iraq and they have gotten nothing in return but screwed. If you give to the US you never get anything in return. I cant think of one example of going along with the US and getting something you want out of it unless it's in the US best interest. We said no to Iraq, and were better off for it. We should say no to Missile Defence because we'll be better off for it. Canada recognized Cuba and China, America didn't. Land mine treaty, international court. All this America didn't like. To bad for them. They're wrong. We benifit from it.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Can I help push?

Sure

Supporters of Missile Defence say that you have to give a little to the US to have a say in what goes on. Give a little and get a little.

Forget about Britain and other members of the coalition of bribed and bullied, we've been hearing this "give a little, get a little" crap since Mulroney was PM. It hasn't worked yet. We give, they take, we give, they take. All bargaining is done with the understanding that we are doing so from a position of weakness.

That we have every ability to bargain from a position of strength never comes into play. Our "leaders" don't want it to.

 

[Paranoid Dot Calm]

Wow .... Canadians feel like we finally stood up to the U.S. and said "No" to missile defense.

But .... yuh know what .... we are gonna say "yes" to everything else!

I'm tellin' yuh .... Martin has to wrap himself in a Canadian flag and head off to New York to visit the bankers by March 31st, the end of the government fiscal year. The Canadian press will tell us he went to New York to visit the U.N. or something of that nature.

Americans already know Martin pretty well. Actually, after sharing all Canadian citizen files with Home Land Security .... America knows us all.

They know that in order for us to keep our economy going, we are gonna need to borrow a few bucks.

Calm

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

Supporters of Missile Defence say that you have to give a little to the US to have a say in what goes on. Give a little and get a little.

Yeah, I hear that all the time. One would think that Bush's visit would have put an end to that speculation, considering softwood lumber, beef, and other trade problems that remain outstanding.

The other thing I keep hearing is that, "Americans are our best friends." What rot. Countries don't have friends, they have interests. Canada will be much better off when it stands up for itself instead of constantly worrying about what the Americans think.

 

[Mooseskin Johnny]

They know that in order for us to keep our economy going, we are gonna need to borrow a few bucks.

So, why do we need to go cap in hand to borrow a few bucks? I thought we had a surplus. I've heard talk of tax cuts. Canada should never borrow from foreign banks. At one time, most, if not all, government borrowing was from the Bank of Canada. I don't understand why Canada should borrow from other institutions.

In spite of the news article which started this thread, I have my doubts that Martin is keeping Canada out of Missile Defense. I think there is some strategic weaselling going on.

 

[Gonzo]

America is suffering now. Canada is not. Why not use our clout to get what we want? We just never do it. If we decided to do business elsewhere we'd be better off. Some will have us believe America defends us. When have they defended us? What have they done to protect Canadian sovereignty? We really don’t need them for anything. We give more to the US then we get. Let’s do business elsewhere. America will then realize that they needed us more then we need them. The European economy is much healthier then America's. Let’s look for business there.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: PM Martin says NO to

More importantly, it's more likely that the EU will at least listen to us, even if they don't heed us on any given issue. The US listens to nobody but itself, the EU is made up of an amalgam of countries, some of which will tend to share our point of view on various issues.