Paul Martin's Future

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
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Calgary, AB
http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleN..._0600113/20060113?s_name=election2006&no_ads=

Martin could lose, but hang on to leadership

OTTAWA — Federal Liberals are growing increasingly resigned to losing power, but they're less certain they'll lose their leader.

Some veteran Grits are adamant that Paul Martin will have to resign immediately if he fails to win at least another minority government on Jan. 23. "If (Conservative Leader) Stephen Harper becomes prime minister, Paul Martin will have to step aside," said Toronto lawyer Andrew Kania.

Kania, who said he would support former deputy prime minister John Manley in any future leadership contest, is hopeful that Martin wouldn't need to be pushed into making a swift exit.

"Paul Martin has always been a good Liberal. I'm sure he'll do the right thing and step aside."

Others aren't so sure.

"It depends how strong the (Conservative) government is," said former Chretien-era minister Herb Dhaliwal.

Liberals would be wary of dumping their leader and embarking on a potentially divisive leadership contest if they feared the government could be toppled and the country plunged into an election at any time.

If Harper were to win a weak, unstable minority, Martin would be "cut some slack," Dhaliwal predicted. But in the case of a strong, stable Conservative minority, he said: "I think the writing's on the wall (for Martin)."

Another former minister, who didn't want to be named, predicted Martin would try to hang on no matter the election's outcome. Martin has spent so many years plotting to ascend to the throne, he's not about to give it up without a fight, the ex-minister said.

Other Liberals privately contend that even if Martin himself is willing to throw in the towel, his tight inner circle of advisers won't let him. Many have devoted years to getting Martin into the prime minister's office and will want another chance to prove they can get it right.

"They'll do everything they can to make him hang on," predicted one senior Liberal.

The ex-minister also described an alternate scenario making the Liberal rounds, based on the theory that if Harper were to win a minority Jan. 23, he'd have a good chance of turning that into a majority in a couple of years.

Under that scenario, Liberals might encourage Martin to stay to fight a third, losing election in order to give the party more time to rebuild from the ground up and to allow his eventual successor to remain untainted by electoral defeat.

"You use him as bait," the ex-minister said.

Martin was for years the undisputed and impatient heir apparent to Jean Chretien. At the moment, however, he has no single obvious successor, no one for his critics to rally around in an effort to hurry him out the door.

In any event, none of the potential contenders for the Liberal crown seems to be in any big rush.

A senior Manley strategist said the Liberal party has been mortally wounded by the ongoing civil war between the Martin and Chretien factions. A new leader would need to heal the wounds and unite the party - and calling for Martin's head on election night would be the worst way to embark on that mission, the strategist said.

Other potential contenders have their own reasons for being patient. Internationally acclaimed academic Michael Ignatieff needs to learn the ropes as an MP, assuming he wins his seat, before he can aspire to lead the party. Former ministers Martin Cauchon and Maurizio Bevilacqua are young enough to bide their time.

Former New Brunswick Premier Frank McKenna would need to time to get out of his current gig as Canada's ambassador to the U.S.

Implicit in all these Liberal musings about Martin's fate is a resigned acceptance of defeat on Jan. 23.

"At this point in time, people are essentially hoping the Conservatives don't get a majority," said Kania.

However, Kania and other Liberals do maintain some faint hope that the very possibility of a Conservative majority may yet scare enough voters back into the Liberal camp that Martin can eke out another minority.

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Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
As much as I don't like seeing or hearing Paul Martin, I would sure like to see him stick around.....hopefully he will drag the Liberal Party further in the mud....and make it to another election only to have a boatload of crap dumped on him.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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www.kdm.ca
didn't you hear that martin is strategically throwing this election so the populace sees what harper really is so that by the end of 2006 we will have another election with a liberal majority and the harperites sent back to being a western redneck rump party?
 

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
1,274
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Martin is just a B rated actor. Maybe he can get on Rick Mercer's "comedy" show.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
0
16
Calgary, AB
Re: RE: Paul Martin's Future

the caracal kid said:
didn't you hear that martin is strategically throwing this election so the populace sees what harper really is so that by the end of 2006 we will have another election with a liberal majority and the harperites sent back to being a western redneck rump party?

:laughing3: :laughing4:

:salute:
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Martin is a GREAT actor. For years i thought he was one of the best finance ministers ever. I used to like the guy.

'Used to'. Now I hate the bastard. He's shown his true spots as no more than a liar and fraud willing to sell his first-born to keep in power. Worse than that, he was willing to manipulate the reputation of members of the armed forces to achieve his ends.

I hope he gets hit by a truck and dies.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
16
Well, Martin doesn't give a @$%# about respecting the over 100,000 Canadians killed in war (more injured doing their duty today). He's lower than a dead stick for trying to tar the reputation of our soldiers to score political points.

I was in the military and now officially hate him. If I had a big plate of cookies, even if he was hungry asked politely, I wouldn't give him one (unless it fell off the plate and landed on a dog do-do).
 

Semperfi_dani

Electoral Member
Nov 1, 2005
482
0
16
Edmonton
I think that he's fine overall...but the problem is that if the Liberals lose, especially if the cons form a majority gov't, that the Liberals will have to act fast and decisively to replace him. He will have no choice. The alternative option is that his party gets dragged down further and lefty liberals jump ship to the NDP.

It's clear that the Liberal party is suffering. It's split. There is no doubt about it. I think that they need to cut ties with Chretien and Martin altogether and find someone with a new vision. The problem is that the Liberal impulse is to always appeal on to Canadians based on Trudeau gov't..so i can see them finding someone who is more of a Trudeau Style liberal than say a conservative like Martin style of leadership. It would be nice if they found someone not connected to Trudeau, Chretian, Martin, but had their own plan. Not likely to happen.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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The flip side

of this topic is what happens to Harper if he doesn't win. He will not be in great shape if the CPC loses again.
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
0
16
I would find it bizarre for the Liberals to hold on to Martin as their leader should they lose this election. If they lose this election, Martin would be following up three straight majority governments(on the part of Chretien) with a short-lived minority government, and then falling into the ranks of the loyal opposition.

To use a hockey analogy, keeping Martin after that would be like a NHL hockey team keeping a coach that took the reigns of power after the previous coach retired (with 3 Stanley Cups in his last 3 years), and then coached the team to a barely above .500 record one year, and missing the playoffs the next.
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
0
16
Re: RE: Paul Martin's Future

the caracal kid said:
didn't you hear that martin is strategically throwing this election so the populace sees what harper really is so that by the end of 2006 we will have another election with a liberal majority and the harperites sent back to being a western redneck rump party?

Oh, please. There's no way we'll get another federal election within 12 months - Canadians wouldn't stand for it. You guys on the far left have the most bizarre, and surreal, negative ideas about Harper that I've ever seen about any Canadian politician.

Harper's a well-versed economist. He'll keep the economy running smoothly. At the end of the day, that's what most Canadians are going to care about.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
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Vancouver, BC
Length of Government

If a Conservative Government were to be that of a minority of Members in the House of Commons, then he would have no control over a premature election, other than to ensure he keeps a moderate façade.

One must keep in mind that in a Minority Parliament, the Government is subject to the will of the Opposition.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
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www.kdm.ca
Re: RE: Paul Martin's Future

Triple_R said:
the caracal kid said:
didn't you hear that martin is strategically throwing this election so the populace sees what harper really is so that by the end of 2006 we will have another election with a liberal majority and the harperites sent back to being a western redneck rump party?

Oh, please. There's no way we'll get another federal election within 12 months - Canadians wouldn't stand for it. You guys on the far left have the most bizarre, and surreal, negative ideas about Harper that I've ever seen about any Canadian politician.

Harper's a well-versed economist. He'll keep the economy running smoothly. At the end of the day, that's what most Canadians are going to care about.

Funny how initial bias effects the reading of a statement. My comment was a tongue-in-cheek evaluation of Martin's non-campaign and his motives. You think the populace won't like another election? Remember Joe Clark and his 9 month reign? Never say never in politics, especially during an election.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
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Vancouver, BC
Short Term Governance

Hey, you never know ...

If the Tories are elected, for all we know, they could be defeated over the Speech from the Throne. It's possible.

Like the caracal kid said, "Never say never."
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
179
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Re: Length of Government

FiveParadox said:
If a Conservative Government were to be that of a minority of Members in the House of Commons, then he would have no control over a premature election, other than to ensure he keeps a moderate façade.

One must keep in mind that in a Minority Parliament, the Government is subject to the will of the Opposition.

Why do you think it's a facade? His change seems genuine to me. A political leader having his party combine with a more centrist party will often have the effect of moderating that political leader's viewpoints. He's now rubbing shoulders with more supporters that are centrist than he was before. This naturally has an impact.

In any event, I think that the Conservatives, should they assume the reigns of power, will govern moderately... particularly if they're a minority government.

Nonetheless, it would be foolhardy to send Canadians to the polls for 2 federal elections in one calender year. It would just anger Canadians against all of the political parties - all politicians would suffer for it. I could even concievably see such a stunt resulting in fringe parties picking up seats via protest votes.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
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Independent Palestine
Not if the Conservatives are brought down under something that Canadians think is regressive. Then the Conservatives will be hated.

And elections in the same year has happened before. Its a fact of democracy.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
Short-term Governance

It's a fact not only of democracy, but of responsible government.

The mechanism by which a Government can be defeated on issues of confidence is an important part of our system of governance. If a Conservative Government were to do something that a united Opposition would see appropriate to force the dissolution of the House of Commons, then so be it.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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Exactly!

I agree entirely.

If a dissolution were to be forced by the defeat of a budget, for example, or for a Speech from the Throne, or for some substantive measure that was being defeated on the basis of that measure, rather than with a "we're the Opposition, and we don't like the Government" sort of mentality, then I think that Canadians could genuinely respect the defeat of the Government.