Only 16% Think Government Telling the Truth about 9/11

[wallyj]

I will add that the CT's have become a business. People with degrees and no job skills are making money by exploiting the insecure and intellectually challenged. If you took that bogus I.Q. test and are feeling proud of your high score,hopefully you didn't brag too much,you probably believe in the conspiracy.Cheers.

 

[elevennevele]

But elevennevele also said ...

elevennevele, you really need to get over the word "conspiracy"! It is the proper to word to use to describe what you are refer to in the latter two paragraphs! You are describing a conspriracy to protect the terrorists as well as its cover up!

No, I was just pointing out that it is just as hard to believe in the condemnation of the institutions (CIA, FBI, etc.) who warned or provided intelligence to this US government while at the same time accepting that this government wasn’t not warned/informed enough so they are not as responsible on their side.

What is a conspiracy about that? This US government was warned. That is documented. Their argument was they weren’t given indication of the seriousness or the timing of the threat to place it at the front of their focus. From what I read of pre-warnings (documented) I think they were. That is an opinion, not a conspiracy. And it’s an opinion over very real documentation. If you think different, that wouldn't be a refute by way of a truth. That also would be an opinion on how you regard the professionalism of those institutions at that time.

And how exactly in this arguement am I protecting terrorists? How is thinking that the US government should have done better with what they had known – The warnings or the information before and after, how is my statement to the event helping terrorists? In fact a more effective government may have stopped this terrorist act from the beginning.

Please show me where I erred with pointing out how FBI agents were taken off the trail of terror suspects? That as is a documented fact. Explain my conspiracy theory of Wilson and his wife. That again is a known truth. She was outed but those who did so (though denied knowledge until caught) will now argue it was in their legal limits.

I doubt such legal limits would have applied to anybody else not in favour with this administration, but again that is opinion, not conspiracy. So now that I’ve said all this, please point to how I’ve made a conspiracy theory?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4293682,00.html

FBI claims Bin Laden inquiry was frustrated

Officials told to 'back off' on Saudis before September 11

Greg Palast and David Pallister
Guardian

Wednesday November 7, 2001

FBI and military intelligence officials in Washington say they were prevented for political reasons from carrying out full investigations into members of the Bin Laden family in the US before the terrorist attacks of September 11.

US intelligence agencies have come under criticism for their wholesale failure to predict the catastrophe at the World Trade Centre. But some are complaining that their hands were tied.

FBI documents shown on BBC Newsnight last night and obtained by the Guardian show that they had earlier sought to investigate two of Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington and a Muslim organisation, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), with which they were linked.

The FBI file, marked Secret and coded 199, which means a case involving national security, records that Abdullah bin Laden, who lived in Washington, had originally had a file opened on him "because of his relationship with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth - a suspected terrorist organisation".

And as for the flight school terror suspects, read it yourself from FBI Director Robert Mueller own words.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html

 

[elevennevele]

Again, while one can argue negligence on the part of the institutions that gave prior warning (as I've stated before), there were still warnings. If I have the opinion that those warnings were sufficient enough for a government to place greater concern and therefore bears as much a responsibility for their own negligence, I am in my rights to state that. A statement that does not make for any conspiracy theory.

FBI Was Warned About Flight Schools

WASHINGTON, May 3, 2002
(AP)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/terror/main509113.shtml

(AP) Two months before the suicide hijackings, an FBI agent in Arizona alerted Washington headquarters that several Middle Easterners were training at a U.S. aviation school and recommended contacting other schools nationwide where Arabs might be studying.

"FBIHQ should discuss this matter with other elements of the U.S. intelligence community and task the community for any information that supports Phoenix's suspicions," the agent recommended in the memo obtained by The Associated Press.

The FBI sent the intelligence to its terrorism experts in Washington and New York for analysis and had begun discussing conducting a nationwide canvass of flight schools when the Sept. 11 tragedies occurred, officials told AP.

At least one leader of the 19 hijackers, Hani Hanjour, received flight training in Arizona in 2001 but his name had not surfaced in the FBI intelligence from Arizona, the officials said.

Presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer declined to comment on the memo, saying he did not have "independent confirmation" from within the White House of its existence.

March 21, 2006, 3:03AM
FBI agent says he warned his bosses about Moussaoui
While asserting agency's bungling, his testimony may also aid defense

By JERRY MARKON and TIMOTHY DWYER
Washington Post

WASHINGTON - An FBI agent who interrogated Zacarias Moussaoui before Sept. 11, 2001, warned his supervisors more than 70 times that Moussaoui was a terrorist and spelled out his suspicions that the al-Qaida operative was plotting to hijack an airplane, according to testimony Monday.

(cont.)

Bin Laden link edited out

But when Samit tried to use the French intelligence in his draft application for a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant to search Moussaoui's belongings, he said, Maltbie edited out the bin Laden link because it did not show a foreign government was involved.

"How are you supposed to establish a connection with a foreign power if it's deleted from the document?" MacMahon asked.

"Well, sir, you can't," Samit replied.

Samit said he also sent an e-mail to the FBI's bin Laden unit, but he did not receive a response before Sept. 11, 2001. By late August, the agent had concluded that Maltbie and other FBI officials were no longer interested in investigating Moussaoui. Samit acknowledged that he told the Justice Department's inspector general's office that his supervisors engaged in "criminal negligence" and were trying to "run out the clock" because they wanted to deport Moussaoui rather than prosecute him.

"You thought a terrorist attack was coming, and you were being obstructed, right?" MacMahon asked.

"Yes, sir," Samit answered.

Samit said he kept trying to persuade his bosses to authorize the surveillance warrant or a criminal search warrant right up until the day before the planes hit the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

"You never stopped trying, did you?" MacMahon said.

"No, sir," Samit replied.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,,716529,00.html

Two weeks ago it emerged that an FBI agent in Arizona had warned the agency about large numbers of Arab men seeking pilot, security and airport operations training at least one US flight school. That memo mentioned Bin Laden by name and urged the FBI to check all flight schools to identify possible terrorists. The FBI did not act on the memo

The CIA briefing is the first direct link between Mr Bush and intelligence gathered before September 11 about the attacks.

Mr Fleischer would not discuss when or how the information was given to Mr Bush. But a senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the president was made aware of the potential for hijackings of US planes during one or more routine intelligence briefings last summer.

 

[blogbart]

call it what it is

elevennevele, i agree with you, i am just saying that what you are describing IS a conspiracy.

Clearly, more than one person was given clear warnings, and more than one person acted to turn a blind eye to, obfuscate, and cover up warnings given prior to 9/11, further these various people were within the American alphabet agencies and Bush administration.

That smacks of a conspiracy to me, which just means that more than one person did conspire to do these things. It doesn't mean you have a tin foil hat, regardless of what the name callers say!

The word conspiracy has lost its original meaning in public discourse, though if you go the court dockets and police files, you will see people being charged with conspiracy all the time.

This US government was warned. That is documented. Their argument was they weren’t given indication of the seriousness or the timing of the threat to place it at the front of their focus. From what I read of pre-warnings (documented) I think they were. That is an opinion, not a conspiracy.

Yes, yes, yes. They are documented facts. I agree. No one disagrees, how can they, even though the MSM doesn't cover it or investigate why these people did these things.

And how exactly in this arguement am I protecting terrorists? How is thinking that the US government should have done better with what they had known – The warnings or the information before and after, how is my statement to the event helping terrorists? In fact a more effective government may have stopped this terrorist act from the beginning.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, this is a misunderstanding, I said that the people who conspired to turn blind eye to warnings, to obfuscate, to cover up, are the ones protecting terrorists. Even if the warnings didn't say exactly what would happen on 9/11, the warnings of planes being used should have triggered warnings to airports and airlines, and could have prevented the hijackings. That is the crying shame of all of this.

 

[gopher]

I went and bought an Australian Sheppard puppy last weekend.

Here he is

And the only time he barks is when he's unhappy he's in his crate!

Awww, so CUTE!!!

 

[blogbart]

your dog would win, hes too cute

I went and bought an Australian Sheppard puppy last weekend.
Here he is

Those Australian Sheppard's are supposed be clever little doggies. is he the one that herds sheep so efficiently and diligently?

I couldn't possibly argue with him in either case, so you'll have to do

"Doubts about the Bush administration" and conspiracies about the administration's involvement are two very different things.

Just what doubts are people expressing about the Bush administration in the polls I've referenced? Look at the wording of poll question.

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

It asks what Bush Administration knew about possible terrorist attacks prior to 9/11 and overwhelmingly people say they are hiding something or are mostly lying about what they say they knew.

You say that just because people believe something doesn't make it true. Fair enough. But, presumably these people are reading newspapers, blogs, watching the news, talking to other people and forming an opinion which is expressed in the poll results quite emphatially.

Also, remember that this poll, like all others, endeavours to be representative of AMerican population as a whole by statistically relevant sampling, so this makes this poll's results representative of ALL Americans. While you could make the case that all Americans are completely wrong, go on, give it a try, it would be a hard sell.

So, what this poll's results are making a very plausible case for is that the Bush administration has conspired, because more than one person has actively particpated, in lying or hiding what they knew about possible terrorist attacks prior to 9/11.

Of course, this doesn't support my or others' assertions about WTC controlled demolition but it sure sure as hell does lend plausibility that the documented instances alphabet agencies and BUsh administration conspiring to turning a blind eye to, obfuscating, or covering up the activities of 911 hijackers. That is good enough for me, because the thin edge of wedge will prise the rest out.

 

[gopher]

For those who scoff at "conspiracy theory", read the Pentagon Papers which proved that the USA government is willing to kill 58,000 of its own citizens in order to create war for the financial benefit of the military industrial complex.

 

[blogbart]

Dr David Ray Griffin on the phrase "conspiracy theory"

Excerpt from "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Ray Griffin to help elucidate the misunderstood and mis-used phrase "conspiracy theory":

"Before turning to the evidence, however, we should pause to consider the fact, to which allusion has been made, that it seems widely assumed that any such case can be rejected a priori by pointing out that it is a "conspiracy theory". Indeed, it almost seems to be a requirement of admission into public discourse to announce that one rejects conspiracy theories. What is the logic behind this thinking? It cannot be that we literally reject the very idea that conspiracies occur. We all accept conspiracy theories of all sorts. We accept a conspiracy theory whenever we believe that two or more people have conspired in secret to achieve some goal, such as to rob a bank, defraud customers, or fix prices. We would be more honest, therefore, if we followed the precedent of Michael Moore, who has said: "Now, I'm not into conspiracy theories, except the one that are true."

To refine this point slightly, we can say that we accept all those conspiracy theories that we believe to be true, while we reject all those that we believe to be false. We cannot, therefore, divide people into those who accept conspiracy theories and those who reject them. The division between people on this issue involves simply the question of which conspiracy theories they accept and which ones they reject.

To apply this analysis to the attacks of 9/11: It is false to suggest that those who allege that the attacks occurred because of official complicity are "conspiracy theorists" while those who accept the official account are not. People differ on this issue merely in terms of which conspiracy theory they hold to be true, or at least most probable. According to the official account, the attacks of 9/11 occurred because of a conspiracy among Muslims, with Osama Bin Laden being the chief conspirator. Revisionists reject that theory, at least as a sufficient account of what happened, maintaining that the attacks cannot be satisfactorily explained without postulating conspriracy by officials of the US government, at least in allowing the attacks to succeed. The choice, accordingly, is simply between (some version of) the received conspiracy theory and (some version of) the revisionist conspiracy theory.

Which of these competing theories we accept depends, or at least should depend, on which one we believe to be better supported by the relevant facts. Those who hold the revisionist theory have become convinced that there is considerable evidence that not only suggests the falsity of the received conspiracy theory, which we are calling "the official account," but also points to the truth of the revisionist theory. I turn now to that evidence."

 

[Logic 7]

This is a manipulation of statistics. I do not believe the gov't has released all the info they have on 9/11,but I do not think for even one second that they were behind it. What is happening here is the pollsters are lumping people with a healthy mistrust of gov't in with the Conspiracy Nuts . Quite disingenuous.

This is not manipulation of statistics, nice try.The only manipulation was from the US governement, i can't believe you still believe the officials story, withouth a single shread of evidence, except a little distortion tape, the audio skip, distorted, the video is very hard to recognize anyone in there, more money was invested to know how good a blow job was during clinton,pathetic Where are WMD that us governement claim there was??

Just the anthrax attacks which was an inside job, really shows the dark side of the US governement, and enough to restart a full independant international investigation.

 

[Logic 7]

I will add that the CT's have become a business. People with degrees and no job skills are making money by exploiting the insecure and intellectually challenged. If you took that bogus I.Q. test and are feeling proud of your high score,hopefully you didn't brag too much,you probably believe in the conspiracy.Cheers.

You know everything that sorround 9-11, a lot of people made career, and tons of money from this tragedy, and most of those peoples are link to the bush administrations, funny isnt??

 

[wallyj]

This is not manipulation of statistics, nice try.The only manipulation was from the US governement, i can't believe you still believe the officials story, withouth a single shread of evidence, except a little distortion tape, the audio skip, distorted, the video is very hard to recognize anyone in there, more money was invested to know how good a blow job was during clinton,pathetic Where are WMD that us governement claim there was??

Just the anthrax attacks which was an inside job, really shows the dark side of the US governement, and enough to restart a full independant international investigation.

You know everything that sorround 9-11, a lot of people made career, and tons of money from this tragedy, and most of those peoples are link to the bush administrations, funny isnt??

Wow, I'm convenienced now.Such a compalling wel laid-out argument. Do you thin the 2 Bushes that become president are related?Like to eech other.

 

[Logic 7]

Wow, I'm convenienced now.Such a compalling wel laid-out argument. Do you thin the 2 Bushes that become president are related?Like to eech other.

You should ask yourself why the US governement was behind the anthrax attack, not if the 2 bushes are related, yes they are related, just like in a banana republic, sons and wife of rich family become president of their nation, look at the clintons , bushes, funny isnt??

 

[wallyj]

The gov't was behind the anthrax attacks.What planet do you live on? Where is your proof? Another conspiracy brought to you by those who refuse to accept reality.

 

[gearheaded1]

This is a manipulation of statistics. I do not believe the gov't has released all the info they have on 9/11,but I do not think for even one second that they were behind it. What is happening here is the pollsters are lumping people with a healthy mistrust of gov't in with the Conspiracy Nuts . Quite disingenuous.

This statement is right on the money. Someone is ALWAYS threatening someone else and some things just have to be put on the "back-burner" for a while. It's too bad that the US has so much invested in the war in Iraq, and Bin Laden, the Taliban, and their merry men are getting away...

What I want to know is how that Yankee pitcher managed to fly (by accident) his plane into a New York high-rise? Shouldn't he have been F-18 scrambled eggs before he got so close? Amazing... it could happen again. Too easy. It probably will - I'm surprised it hasn't yet...

 

[Sassylassie]

Gearhead 1 wrote: What I want to know is how that Yankee pitcher managed to fly (by accident) his plane into a New York high-rise? Shouldn't he have been F-18 scrambled eggs before he got so close? Amazing... it could happen again. Too easy. It probably will - I'm surprised it hasn't yet...

I too wondered where were the F-18's, Air Traffic Control should of had them on radar heading for a building? Yes/No?

 

[MikeyDB]

The gov't was behind the anthrax attacks.What planet do you live on? Where is your proof? Another conspiracy brought to you by those who refuse to accept reality.

Who were responsible for the anthrax attacks WallyJ?

 

[I think not]

Who were responsible for the anthrax attacks WallyJ?

Hmmm. Does the absence of a guilty party automatically point towards the government?