hmm... i guess some of you haven't read any first hand accounts of many north korean citizens who have fled their native country because of the brutality and famine that happens there.
North Korea turns 60...
- Thread starter thulin
- Start date
Caused by the government stockpiling the food so they grow nice and plump.
But I guess you didn't hear about the malnutrition going on in raq because of American forces waging war there.
You see you can always change things around to fit your view point.
But I guess you didn't hear about the malnutrition going on in raq because of American forces waging war there.
You see you can always change things around to fit your view point.
Jersay said:
Which loses ones credibility in the process for not being able to see anything beyond that viewpoint.
Communism has killed 100 million people, let's give it another chance, shall we?
Communism is enemy #1 to the people.
America said give me your poor huddled masses, and she made something of them. Communism said you are my huddled masses, and killed them.
Anyone who promotes communism I immediately assume is naive, if they insist on it, I think they are completely dangerous.
America said give me your poor huddled masses, and she made something of them. Communism said you are my huddled masses, and killed them.
Anyone who promotes communism I immediately assume is naive, if they insist on it, I think they are completely dangerous.
Re: RE: North Korea turns 60...
:lol:
They shouldn't be getting on the boats because we should be breaching their shores.
I wish I didn't have ammunition to slag the Canadian Army, and I hope and pray Harper is going to remedy that.
nitzomoe said:
:lol:
nitzomoe said:
They shouldn't be getting on the boats because we should be breaching their shores.
I wish I didn't have ammunition to slag the Canadian Army, and I hope and pray Harper is going to remedy that.
I had gotten an offer to go to North Korea in the Summer of 2003 I think it was if I remember correctly. There was an Asian Esperanto Congress organised in the Chinese Autonomous Region of Yanbian, right on the border with North Korea. The regional government had established an agreement with the North Korean government to allow all the participants of the congress to take part in a guided tour (I believe it was a day trip only if I remember that one correctly, but maybe a few days, I can;t remember that detail) across the border.
Anyway, that was about the time that the nuclear crisis had started and, considering that it was an Asian congress, few Arabs speak Esperanto and, while many Persians do, Iran is also a little poorer than Japan and South Korea, and also further, so I concluded that there ws a high probability that all the participants would be yellow, with me, the white man, symbol of the evil US trying to bully North Korea out of nuclear weapons, sticking out like a sore thumb!
Of course, in order to maintain good relations with their gigantic neighbour, I sincerely believe that had I participated, and of course stayed with the group and had the proper documents (which I could have obtained very easily, and would certainly never risk straying away from a guided group if it's clear that the North Korean government itself organised it with the intent that we stay with the group), they would have found it wise to leave me alone. But in the end, I decided not to go just in case. In some ways I was more worried that the US would do something stupid while I might be there! Who knows, even then I'm guessing they would have left me alone as long as I stayed with the group, but I still didn't want to take the risk.
too bad, missed opportunity. Oh well, maybe I'll have such a chance again, now that I live in the very province in which Yanbian is located!
Anyway, that was about the time that the nuclear crisis had started and, considering that it was an Asian congress, few Arabs speak Esperanto and, while many Persians do, Iran is also a little poorer than Japan and South Korea, and also further, so I concluded that there ws a high probability that all the participants would be yellow, with me, the white man, symbol of the evil US trying to bully North Korea out of nuclear weapons, sticking out like a sore thumb!
Of course, in order to maintain good relations with their gigantic neighbour, I sincerely believe that had I participated, and of course stayed with the group and had the proper documents (which I could have obtained very easily, and would certainly never risk straying away from a guided group if it's clear that the North Korean government itself organised it with the intent that we stay with the group), they would have found it wise to leave me alone. But in the end, I decided not to go just in case. In some ways I was more worried that the US would do something stupid while I might be there! Who knows, even then I'm guessing they would have left me alone as long as I stayed with the group, but I still didn't want to take the risk.
too bad, missed opportunity. Oh well, maybe I'll have such a chance again, now that I live in the very province in which Yanbian is located!
yballa09 said:
Interesting. That's actually a concern here. On the one hand, the PRC and North Korea are officially allies. On the other, the PRC seems to be a little embarrassed about this to say the least. Even the PRC looks upon North Korea to be extremist, and is also concerned about stability in that country; after all, should the North Korean government collapse, who's gonna take the brunt of the refugees?
The PRC really deosn't want that headache. There is an underground DPRK regufee network already (If I'm not mistaken, it goes from Northern North Korea through Yanbian (that's a PRC Autonomous region, many of whose inhabitants are of the same Korean ethnic group and can speak Korean). From there, some Chinese koreans help them through China to South Korea though the port cities of Dalian or Qingdao.
Another scenario, especially among the women, is that they marry with any Chinese, especially peasents. Since they are in the country illegally, it might cause problems should they marry someone in the wealthier cities where the administrative structure is well established. In the countryside, there is a higher possibility of the government never finding out. Although Chinese peasants are poor by Chinese standards on the whole, they are still wealthier than their North Korean counterparts by far. Should teh PRC government catch them, the policy has always been to send them back to the DPRK. Historically the DPRK government killed them as an example. Now it doesn't anymore for various reasons, one being diplomatic pressure, the other being the increase of Koreans escaping and getting caught; killing a few might set an example, but killing many might set the stage fro revolt!
Machjo, this is slightly off topic, but i was wondering: are you currently reading this forum from china?
if so, i believe china has a national firewall and censors access to politically sensitive web sites (i.e. the CBC i heard). I am therefore supprised that you can gain access to this very web site, where political discussions abound and where questioning of governenment actions such as PRC and PRK communism may be questioned. Isn't this type of web site exactly what the PRC government doesn't want you to see?
thanks for answering, and in any case, its great to have you among us..
if so, i believe china has a national firewall and censors access to politically sensitive web sites (i.e. the CBC i heard). I am therefore supprised that you can gain access to this very web site, where political discussions abound and where questioning of governenment actions such as PRC and PRK communism may be questioned. Isn't this type of web site exactly what the PRC government doesn't want you to see?
thanks for answering, and in any case, its great to have you among us..
Huck said:Machjo, this is slightly off topic, but i was wondering: are you currently reading this forum from china?
if so, i believe china has a national firewall and censors access to politically sensitive web sites (i.e. the CBC i heard). I am therefore supprised that you can gain access to this very web site, where political discussions abound and where questioning of governenment actions such as PRC and PRK communism may be questioned. Isn't this type of web site exactly what the PRC government doesn't want you to see?
thanks for answering, and in any case, its great to have you among us..
Feel free to read what I wrote at:
http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11122&start=15
Only the most sensitive stuff gets sensored usually, although it can be arbitrary sometimes. Very political site, I can understand, but then sometimes it seems almost aribtrary. Who knows. But generally speaking, China is opening up. Even the English websites are slowly becomming less censored. But websites in less spoken languages are even less sensored.
Oh, and one more thing. You can't sensor what you can't read. Few Chinese really learn English well, and they go private sector where the salary's better. So I'm sure that China's sensorship mecahnisim is short of qualified language personnel. Still have to be careful of course (I would dare start sending e-mails planning the overthrow of any government for instance), but for petty things such as what we see in Canadiancontent, no prob.
Thanks for the info. I thought this was VERY instructive. I must admit i overestimated the censorship in china, i thought most web sites were removed except for the teletubbies and the kids network. (if you see what i mean). But, come to think of it, its really hard to filter the internet, ther is so much content and so many possible interpretations.
Can you read about Ty@n@mi_nn sq_@_r-e in? (mispelled it on purpose to ensure you get to see it)
In anycase, lets hope china will keep opening up. :thumbup:
Can you read about Ty@n@mi_nn sq_@_r-e in? (mispelled it on purpose to ensure you get to see it
)In anycase, lets hope china will keep opening up. :thumbup:
I'd just typed a long and detailed response, but gforgot to log in, so it was all eraced. So I'll just give a brief answer this time.
I'd fogotten about Tian'anmen, so thanks for reminding me.
In Chinese and English, all the sensitive info is sensored. In French, some is sensored. In Esperanto, not sensored, but the info is limited (which thus makes it about equal to French in terms of accessible information). But I'd suspect that, sinse many students, should they choose to study a foreign language other than English, choose French, that French is probably a at least little more sensored than other smaller languages in the world. But I can't verify sinse I don't necessarily know those other languages.
I'd fogotten about Tian'anmen, so thanks for reminding me.
In Chinese and English, all the sensitive info is sensored. In French, some is sensored. In Esperanto, not sensored, but the info is limited (which thus makes it about equal to French in terms of accessible information). But I'd suspect that, sinse many students, should they choose to study a foreign language other than English, choose French, that French is probably a at least little more sensored than other smaller languages in the world. But I can't verify sinse I don't necessarily know those other languages.
60 years! wow they grow up so fast. What would we do without our little George Orwell vision of communism/Stalinism.
I don't know when I hear. Communism had killed 100 million... 10 million or whatever they say these days. You have to remember books like the "Black book of communism" which basically put the number at 20 million. A lot of those number's were made by deaths during WW2 to soldurers and civilion populations. I'm not defeanding communism, but when you look at how bi-ist these writings are. Sometimes they include Nazi solduers killed in ww2 to the amount of deaths caused by communism.
Really the 100 million they came up with for deaths by communism, how many 100 millions has capitalism killed? Wow the number must be in the billions.
Now with that said I'm sure thousands have died in North Korea from Mr Kim's policies and pretty much starving portions of his nation with his Stalinist policies and isolationism. Now I'm not defeanding communism (again) but if you have studied Marxism or even Leninism in university Mr Kim, does not follow the principals of communism, more so then any other so called petty communist dictator. I would say the vast magority of communist dictators have used the communist party, socialism, democracy and scientific socialism as a banner to rally the people around them. Once in power they dump the "high" idea's of said idealology and then do anything they wish to keep themselves or there group in power.
Well thats my two cents. Kim is as communist, as he is as Democratic, as his nation supposedly believes in both.
Anyhow one day I'm sure the two Korea's will be unified, as they have a long history and these past 60 years is merely a drop in time for korea.
Really the 100 million they came up with for deaths by communism, how many 100 millions has capitalism killed? Wow the number must be in the billions.
Now with that said I'm sure thousands have died in North Korea from Mr Kim's policies and pretty much starving portions of his nation with his Stalinist policies and isolationism. Now I'm not defeanding communism (again) but if you have studied Marxism or even Leninism in university Mr Kim, does not follow the principals of communism, more so then any other so called petty communist dictator. I would say the vast magority of communist dictators have used the communist party, socialism, democracy and scientific socialism as a banner to rally the people around them. Once in power they dump the "high" idea's of said idealology and then do anything they wish to keep themselves or there group in power.
Well thats my two cents. Kim is as communist, as he is as Democratic, as his nation supposedly believes in both.
Anyhow one day I'm sure the two Korea's will be unified, as they have a long history and these past 60 years is merely a drop in time for korea.
