No Deal Brexit is the best deal for Britain
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
I was watching some of BBC World on this see that many Remainers are now supporting a Soft Brexit. They are using Norway as an example which, imho, would be the worst of both worlds. It would entangle Britain in an EU Customs Union, likely cede control of its immigration and trade policies.. while excluding itself from representation in EU governance.
A No Deal Brexit is far more advantageous. In fact, this mania about replacing EU membership with Free Trade Agreements undermines the fundamental advantage of a sovereign nation state. That is the ability to promote and integrated, industrial, national economy.. of which tariffs must be a fundamental structural element.
The UK has not benefited from the EU membership, except for a small elite of financiers and traders and a No Deal Brexit gives it the maximum flexibility in rebuilding a real manufacturing and industrial economy.
A No Deal Brexit is far more advantageous. In fact, this mania about replacing EU membership with Free Trade Agreements undermines the fundamental advantage of a sovereign nation state. That is the ability to promote and integrated, industrial, national economy.. of which tariffs must be a fundamental structural element.
The UK has not benefited from the EU membership, except for a small elite of financiers and traders and a No Deal Brexit gives it the maximum flexibility in rebuilding a real manufacturing and industrial economy.
***coughcoughMaysdealwouldkeeptheUKintheCustomsUnionwhichitisalreadyin,thatstheproblemcoughcough***
North Korea's got a good handle of goods going in and out of the country. It tries to be as self-sufficient as it can and if I'm not mistaken, it has full employment. Can't say they're receiving comfortable wages though.
NK is there to prevent NATO from attacking China directly. If NK was attacked by any NATO member they would have the full support of China and Russia and others.
UK's May wants Irish deal to kill backstop in Brexit deal: paper
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...=Feed:+Reuters/worldNews+(Reuters+World+News)
......The title of this topic.........makes the most sense. for the UK.......(IMHO)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...=Feed:+Reuters/worldNews+(Reuters+World+News)
......The title of this topic.........makes the most sense. for the UK.......(IMHO)
Is this an example why the UK is no longer an Empire and we are witnessing the final twitches of the 'death throws'?
Sad, very sad, . . . in other news a new hang-nail treatment has been developed . . . .
Sad, very sad, . . . in other news a new hang-nail treatment has been developed . . . .
Coffee House
The cheer on Question Time that will terrify Corbyn’s Labour
Brendan O'Neill
Brendan O'Neill
18 January 2019
The Spectator
The Question Time audience erupted in cheers at a No Deal Brexit
Watch the video: http://youtu.be/Iwk3YMSoMI8
How brilliant was that cheer on BBC's Question Time last night? Isabel Oakeshott said Theresa May should just walk away from the EU. Fiona Bruce asked her if she meant we should pursue ‘No Deal’. ‘Yes’, said Oakeshott and there it was, instantly, contagiously, the loudest cheer I can remember hearing from a Question Time audience. This was no polite applause or murmur of approval. It was a statement — a noisy, rebellious statement of the people’s continuing and profound attachment to the idea of leaving the European Union, deal or no deal.
It was a cheer that should echo through the nation. That will chill the bones of the political establishment. Which will rattle a commentariat that ceaselessly pumps out columns on how awful No Deal would be. For this cheer — from an audience in the largely working-class, Labour-leaning city of Derby — was a stark reminder that there are people out there, a great many people, who do not share the political class’s fear of No Deal. Who haven’t been won over by the non-stop fearmongering about No Deal. Who flat-out refuse to buy the media’s horror stories about how No Deal will lead to medicine shortages, and food riots, and chaos in Dover, and plagues of locusts. So much for Leave voters being ‘low information’, easily misled idiots who can be brainwashed by adverts on buses and Facebook memes — this cheer was proof that these people are more than capable of thinking for themselves and resisting the establishment’s ideology of fear around No Deal.
The cheer will have horrified the political class. All wings of it. For the past few days, political bigwigs, loads of MPs, business leaders and supposedly radical Corbynistas — what a bizarre mix! — have been imploring Theresa May to take No Deal off the table. And yet here was a section of working-class Britain actively cheering No Deal. There could be no clearer illustration of the gaping chasm — the chasm in values, beliefs, political ideals — that now separates the political set from the public. The cheer will have especially devastated Corbyn’s Labour. They have made opposing No Deal their big thing, their chief aim. No Deal will ruin Britain, they cry. And yet here were working-class people whooping for a No Deal with a vigour that is too often lacking in modern politics. Behold one of the most important divides in British politics today — that between the woke bourgeois agitators of Corbyn’s inner circle and the ordinary people who used to make up the backbone of the Labour movement. Maybe Corbynistas will brand these cheerers as ‘gammon’.
Some will say — they already are, in fact — that this cheer proves how self-destructive the Brexit outlook is. These poor, not very well-educated people don’t realise how much harm No Deal will cause, apparently, including in their own lives and communities and on their economic opportunities. Such foul paternalism! This boils down to saying that the plebs don’t know what they are doing; they’re killing themselves with their own stupidity and it is down to us, the enlightened folk, to save them from themselves. Stop this. The support for No Deal is actually entirely rational. People know what ‘taking No Deal off the table’ really means — it means taking Brexit off the table. People feel that No Deal is now code for Brexit itself, and that anything that restricts the UK’s ability to walk away from the EU will threaten Brexit in its entirety. They are dead right to feel this.
That cheer told us so much about the state of the nation. Jonathan Swift said:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/the-cheer-on-question-time-that-will-terrify-corbyns-labour/
The cheer on Question Time that will terrify Corbyn’s Labour
Brendan O'Neill
Brendan O'Neill
18 January 2019
The Spectator
The Question Time audience erupted in cheers at a No Deal Brexit
Watch the video: http://youtu.be/Iwk3YMSoMI8
How brilliant was that cheer on BBC's Question Time last night? Isabel Oakeshott said Theresa May should just walk away from the EU. Fiona Bruce asked her if she meant we should pursue ‘No Deal’. ‘Yes’, said Oakeshott and there it was, instantly, contagiously, the loudest cheer I can remember hearing from a Question Time audience. This was no polite applause or murmur of approval. It was a statement — a noisy, rebellious statement of the people’s continuing and profound attachment to the idea of leaving the European Union, deal or no deal.
It was a cheer that should echo through the nation. That will chill the bones of the political establishment. Which will rattle a commentariat that ceaselessly pumps out columns on how awful No Deal would be. For this cheer — from an audience in the largely working-class, Labour-leaning city of Derby — was a stark reminder that there are people out there, a great many people, who do not share the political class’s fear of No Deal. Who haven’t been won over by the non-stop fearmongering about No Deal. Who flat-out refuse to buy the media’s horror stories about how No Deal will lead to medicine shortages, and food riots, and chaos in Dover, and plagues of locusts. So much for Leave voters being ‘low information’, easily misled idiots who can be brainwashed by adverts on buses and Facebook memes — this cheer was proof that these people are more than capable of thinking for themselves and resisting the establishment’s ideology of fear around No Deal.
The cheer will have horrified the political class. All wings of it. For the past few days, political bigwigs, loads of MPs, business leaders and supposedly radical Corbynistas — what a bizarre mix! — have been imploring Theresa May to take No Deal off the table. And yet here was a section of working-class Britain actively cheering No Deal. There could be no clearer illustration of the gaping chasm — the chasm in values, beliefs, political ideals — that now separates the political set from the public. The cheer will have especially devastated Corbyn’s Labour. They have made opposing No Deal their big thing, their chief aim. No Deal will ruin Britain, they cry. And yet here were working-class people whooping for a No Deal with a vigour that is too often lacking in modern politics. Behold one of the most important divides in British politics today — that between the woke bourgeois agitators of Corbyn’s inner circle and the ordinary people who used to make up the backbone of the Labour movement. Maybe Corbynistas will brand these cheerers as ‘gammon’.
Some will say — they already are, in fact — that this cheer proves how self-destructive the Brexit outlook is. These poor, not very well-educated people don’t realise how much harm No Deal will cause, apparently, including in their own lives and communities and on their economic opportunities. Such foul paternalism! This boils down to saying that the plebs don’t know what they are doing; they’re killing themselves with their own stupidity and it is down to us, the enlightened folk, to save them from themselves. Stop this. The support for No Deal is actually entirely rational. People know what ‘taking No Deal off the table’ really means — it means taking Brexit off the table. People feel that No Deal is now code for Brexit itself, and that anything that restricts the UK’s ability to walk away from the EU will threaten Brexit in its entirety. They are dead right to feel this.
That cheer told us so much about the state of the nation. Jonathan Swift said:
‘It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house for the voice of a Kingdom.’
This is our establishment today. They think their chatter, their fearmongering, their tweeting is the view of the nation, but in many cases it is the precise opposite. Last night, in that cheer, they heard the voice of the kingdom, and it will have terrified them. I hope it did anyway.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/the-cheer-on-question-time-that-will-terrify-corbyns-labour/
RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The Brexit debacle is like watching Rebels Without A Clue
By RICHARD LITTLEJOHN FOR THE DAILY MAIL
18 January 2019
Daily Mail
Seeking refuge from the Brexit debacle, I decided to lose myself in an old Hollywood movie — The Candidate, starring Robert Redford, made in 1972.
Redford plays an idealistic young man persuaded to run for the U.S. Senate. Yes, I know it might seem somewhat perverse attempting to escape from politics by watching a film about, er, politics.
But in order to understand the present, it always helps if you look to the past. And though The Candidate is set in California, the basic principles of politics are universal.
'This wasn’t a vote of confidence in Mrs May, it was a vote of no confidence in Corbyn. And if all you have to offer is a speech stating that the Prime Minister is not as rubbish as the Leader of the Opposition, however true, you’re clutching at straws'
Redford’s character starts out determined to pursue a new kind of politics, one which listens to ordinary people, addresses their concerns and improves their lives.
Inevitably, as his campaign progresses, he gets swallowed up by the machine, and starts parroting scripted soundbites and cliches, and cutting deals with vested interests in exchange for their support.
Then again, don’t they all?
Let’s be charitable and accept that most MPs went into politics with the best of intentions, determined to serve their constituents and keep their manifesto promises.
Sadly, with a few honourable exceptions, they become corrupted by proximity to power. And the more time they spend at Westminster, the further they move away from the people they are paid to represent.
Eventually, they end up treating voters with contempt. Which is where we are right now.
Look, I don’t want to keep banging on about Brexit. I’m as sick of the whole business as most of you. But the shenanigans in Parliament are not just about Britain’s future relationship with the EU, they go to the very heart of what passes for our democracy these days.
Whether, like me, you’re a gung-ho Brexiteer or a full-on federast, is irrelevant. The behaviour of most of our elected representatives has been an absolute disgrace.
Just consider that photograph of them falling all over each other to get into the voting lobby to reject Theresa May’s risible ‘deal’. It made me want to puke. They all seemed hugely pleased with themselves, without a thought as to how it appeared to those of us who live outside the bubble.
Most of them couldn’t wait to get in front of the nearest microphone or television camera so they could spout their self-serving platitudes.
In total, 432 MPs voted against May’s deal — which, curiously, is almost exactly the number of seats Leave would have gained if the referendum had been a general election.
It would have been considered a landslide. Yet from the moment the Brexit result was announced, the majority of MPs have been plotting to overturn it.
Their promises to respect the outcome, to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, their votes to implement Article 50, which will take us out of the EU, all count for nothing. They lied to us. They painted themselves into a corner and then walked out through the paint. They have declared war on the very people who put them into office.
And for what?
How many honourable members really went into politics determined to surrender their duties to an unelected, anti-democratic foreign protection racket?
I’m not going to revisit all the arguments about why Mother Theresa’s withdrawal agreement is a crock. What else should we have expected? She’s a Remainer whose heart was never in leaving the EU.
Her repeated attempts to force her sell-out deal through the Commons is not, as some might claim, an admirable display of principled resilience.
It is evidence of bovine intransigence, born of intellectual inadequacy, a complete lack of imagination and non-existent negotiating skills, coupled with an unwarranted sense of entitlement. As I’m sure I don’t need to remind you, I never thought she was up to the job in the first place.
If she’d had a shred of decency she’d have resigned after the fiasco of calling an unnecessary general election in which she contrived to lose her parliamentary majority.
Few MPs come out of this well, especially not the shambolic Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, a serial opponent of the EU who is now talking about locking Britain into a Customs Union in perpetuity and flatly refuses to take part in talks aimed at ending the impasse.
Yesterday, hardline Remainers started stamping their little bootees and threatening to resign if we leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, the Tory leaders of the official Leave campaign are now parlaying their positions in pursuit of political advancement. I told you before Christmas that Boris was up to something when he lost a bit of timber and had his hair cut.
'Michael Gove, who knifed Boris after the referendum, has his eye on No 10, too. How else to explain his backing for May’s deal, which betrays the very Brexit for which he campaigned so effectively?'
It wasn’t just because he’s got a young bird in tow. He still thinks, in his words, the ball is going to emerge from the back of the scrum and his Churchillian sense of destiny will be fulfilled.
Michael Gove, who knifed Boris after the referendum, has his eye on No 10, too.
How else to explain his backing for May’s deal, which betrays the very Brexit for which he campaigned so effectively?
Gove’s speech during this week’s confidence debate was superficially impressive, but it was aimed purely at bolstering his prime ministerial credentials.
This wasn’t a vote of confidence in Mrs May, it was a vote of no confidence in Corbyn. And if all you have to offer is a speech stating that the Prime Minister is not as rubbish as the Leader of the Opposition, however true, you’re clutching at straws.
Those Tories who fantasise about Labour deposing Corbyn should be careful what they wish for. Any half-presentable successor to Corbyn would wipe the floor with them.
How the hell did we get into this unholy mess? Only the MPs who created it can get us out of it, yet few show any signs of softening their opposition to Brexit or respecting the democratically expressed will of the British people. If anything, their stance is hardening as they sense they can force a second referendum and halt Brexit altogether.
Quite how they’re going to achieve that isn’t apparent. But it won’t stop them trying. They all think they’re starring in their own movie.
At the end of The Candidate, after he’s won the Senate election, Redford’s character turns to his campaign manager and asks forlornly: ‘What do we do now?’
Precisely. No one at Westminster seems to have the faintest idea. We are all going to hell in a handcart.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ebacle-like-watching-Rebels-Without-Clue.html
By RICHARD LITTLEJOHN FOR THE DAILY MAIL
18 January 2019
Daily Mail
Seeking refuge from the Brexit debacle, I decided to lose myself in an old Hollywood movie — The Candidate, starring Robert Redford, made in 1972.
Redford plays an idealistic young man persuaded to run for the U.S. Senate. Yes, I know it might seem somewhat perverse attempting to escape from politics by watching a film about, er, politics.
But in order to understand the present, it always helps if you look to the past. And though The Candidate is set in California, the basic principles of politics are universal.
'This wasn’t a vote of confidence in Mrs May, it was a vote of no confidence in Corbyn. And if all you have to offer is a speech stating that the Prime Minister is not as rubbish as the Leader of the Opposition, however true, you’re clutching at straws'
Redford’s character starts out determined to pursue a new kind of politics, one which listens to ordinary people, addresses their concerns and improves their lives.
Inevitably, as his campaign progresses, he gets swallowed up by the machine, and starts parroting scripted soundbites and cliches, and cutting deals with vested interests in exchange for their support.
Then again, don’t they all?
Let’s be charitable and accept that most MPs went into politics with the best of intentions, determined to serve their constituents and keep their manifesto promises.
Sadly, with a few honourable exceptions, they become corrupted by proximity to power. And the more time they spend at Westminster, the further they move away from the people they are paid to represent.
Eventually, they end up treating voters with contempt. Which is where we are right now.
Look, I don’t want to keep banging on about Brexit. I’m as sick of the whole business as most of you. But the shenanigans in Parliament are not just about Britain’s future relationship with the EU, they go to the very heart of what passes for our democracy these days.
Whether, like me, you’re a gung-ho Brexiteer or a full-on federast, is irrelevant. The behaviour of most of our elected representatives has been an absolute disgrace.
Just consider that photograph of them falling all over each other to get into the voting lobby to reject Theresa May’s risible ‘deal’. It made me want to puke. They all seemed hugely pleased with themselves, without a thought as to how it appeared to those of us who live outside the bubble.
Most of them couldn’t wait to get in front of the nearest microphone or television camera so they could spout their self-serving platitudes.
In total, 432 MPs voted against May’s deal — which, curiously, is almost exactly the number of seats Leave would have gained if the referendum had been a general election.
It would have been considered a landslide. Yet from the moment the Brexit result was announced, the majority of MPs have been plotting to overturn it.
Their promises to respect the outcome, to leave the Single Market and the Customs Union, their votes to implement Article 50, which will take us out of the EU, all count for nothing. They lied to us. They painted themselves into a corner and then walked out through the paint. They have declared war on the very people who put them into office.
And for what?
How many honourable members really went into politics determined to surrender their duties to an unelected, anti-democratic foreign protection racket?
I’m not going to revisit all the arguments about why Mother Theresa’s withdrawal agreement is a crock. What else should we have expected? She’s a Remainer whose heart was never in leaving the EU.
Her repeated attempts to force her sell-out deal through the Commons is not, as some might claim, an admirable display of principled resilience.
It is evidence of bovine intransigence, born of intellectual inadequacy, a complete lack of imagination and non-existent negotiating skills, coupled with an unwarranted sense of entitlement. As I’m sure I don’t need to remind you, I never thought she was up to the job in the first place.
If she’d had a shred of decency she’d have resigned after the fiasco of calling an unnecessary general election in which she contrived to lose her parliamentary majority.
Few MPs come out of this well, especially not the shambolic Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, a serial opponent of the EU who is now talking about locking Britain into a Customs Union in perpetuity and flatly refuses to take part in talks aimed at ending the impasse.
Yesterday, hardline Remainers started stamping their little bootees and threatening to resign if we leave with no deal.
Meanwhile, the Tory leaders of the official Leave campaign are now parlaying their positions in pursuit of political advancement. I told you before Christmas that Boris was up to something when he lost a bit of timber and had his hair cut.
'Michael Gove, who knifed Boris after the referendum, has his eye on No 10, too. How else to explain his backing for May’s deal, which betrays the very Brexit for which he campaigned so effectively?'
It wasn’t just because he’s got a young bird in tow. He still thinks, in his words, the ball is going to emerge from the back of the scrum and his Churchillian sense of destiny will be fulfilled.
Michael Gove, who knifed Boris after the referendum, has his eye on No 10, too.
How else to explain his backing for May’s deal, which betrays the very Brexit for which he campaigned so effectively?
Gove’s speech during this week’s confidence debate was superficially impressive, but it was aimed purely at bolstering his prime ministerial credentials.
This wasn’t a vote of confidence in Mrs May, it was a vote of no confidence in Corbyn. And if all you have to offer is a speech stating that the Prime Minister is not as rubbish as the Leader of the Opposition, however true, you’re clutching at straws.
Those Tories who fantasise about Labour deposing Corbyn should be careful what they wish for. Any half-presentable successor to Corbyn would wipe the floor with them.
How the hell did we get into this unholy mess? Only the MPs who created it can get us out of it, yet few show any signs of softening their opposition to Brexit or respecting the democratically expressed will of the British people. If anything, their stance is hardening as they sense they can force a second referendum and halt Brexit altogether.
Quite how they’re going to achieve that isn’t apparent. But it won’t stop them trying. They all think they’re starring in their own movie.
At the end of The Candidate, after he’s won the Senate election, Redford’s character turns to his campaign manager and asks forlornly: ‘What do we do now?’
Precisely. No one at Westminster seems to have the faintest idea. We are all going to hell in a handcart.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ebacle-like-watching-Rebels-Without-Clue.html