New party urges non-Jews' expulsion
- Thread starter moghrabi
- Start date
I'm not claiming that Jews and non-Jews have equal rights when wanting to enter Israel (Law of Entry); however, when you claim that Israel is a country for Jews only, that would mean that the Israeli government is 1) not letting any non-Jews enter Israel; 2) actively trying to get non-Jews in Israel, out of Israel, or put them in such a situation that basic rights can or will be denied. Now, as for Israeli Arabs, it is possible to back that to a certain extent. But as I said before: what about the Druzes; or non-Jewish (Christian) familymembers of Jewish immigrants who are also permitted to enter Israel; or religious (Zionist) Christians who are able to enter the country?
RE: New party urges non-Jews
You are talking about entry of non-Jewish people. The topic here is: do these people have the same rights. NOOOO.
Druzes serve in the IDF. So they are a different class altogether.
A question: A Muslim-Arab living in Canada. Can he apply for a citizenship of Israel?
Answer: I a waiting for your answer.
You are talking about entry of non-Jewish people. The topic here is: do these people have the same rights. NOOOO.
Druzes serve in the IDF. So they are a different class altogether.
A question: A Muslim-Arab living in Canada. Can he apply for a citizenship of Israel?
Answer: I a waiting for your answer.
moghrabi: I do think there is a difference between "Jewish Israelis have more opportunities (rights) because they are of the Jewish religion/nation" and "Israel is a country for Jews only". This might sound vague so I'll explain:
Now, as pointed out in your article, there seem to be several occasions in which Jews have an advantage (more rights) than non-Jews: the Law of Return, the IDF-question, etc. I do not think that is just. To explain it is another thing though: according to the Zionist doctrine, every Jew on the planet can (and preferably should) view Israel as their homeland. If a Jew immigrates to Israel, it is seen as someone "returning" to his homeland (that's why: Law of Return). This is not so much of line with the way how other democracies handle this; Russian Germans - for example - can "return" to Germany in the same sort of regulation (although the majority only speaks Russian). In Israel, there are indeed other rules concerning the immigration of non-Jews, requirements which aren't required for Jewish immigrants. This is in one line with the requirement of Israeli citizenship: Jewish immigrants get Israeli citizenship instantly; non-Jewish immigrants have to wait a couple of years before they are granted the same citizenship.
After that has happened, it still depends whether all Israelis have the same rights, as seen with the IDF-question. Than there is the rabbi leadership which still regulates matters like marriage - which is however, not in contrast with a certain amount of other democracies (not that I agree with it, as I am a supporter of a secular state, where church and state are divided) and countries.
These examples however still do not match with "Israel is for Jews only". Non-Jews are accepted in Israeli society (I guess especially Christians that is); and in a country where the majority of its citizens are Jewish, that will be the dominant tone in rule.
Now, I understand that some things are seriously wrong. e.g. The Law Of Return is indeed solely based on those who are Jewish. I find it highly unlikely that these things will change; as Israel is indeed the Jewish State (as Germany is the German State, or Ireland is the Irish State), they want the Jews in the diaspora to keep emigrating to Israel.
What I would say is the following: not "Israel is for Jews only", but: "Israel focuses on (diaspora) Jews as their citizens, but do not object to non-Jews living inside its borders".
Now, as pointed out in your article, there seem to be several occasions in which Jews have an advantage (more rights) than non-Jews: the Law of Return, the IDF-question, etc. I do not think that is just. To explain it is another thing though: according to the Zionist doctrine, every Jew on the planet can (and preferably should) view Israel as their homeland. If a Jew immigrates to Israel, it is seen as someone "returning" to his homeland (that's why: Law of Return). This is not so much of line with the way how other democracies handle this; Russian Germans - for example - can "return" to Germany in the same sort of regulation (although the majority only speaks Russian). In Israel, there are indeed other rules concerning the immigration of non-Jews, requirements which aren't required for Jewish immigrants. This is in one line with the requirement of Israeli citizenship: Jewish immigrants get Israeli citizenship instantly; non-Jewish immigrants have to wait a couple of years before they are granted the same citizenship.
After that has happened, it still depends whether all Israelis have the same rights, as seen with the IDF-question. Than there is the rabbi leadership which still regulates matters like marriage - which is however, not in contrast with a certain amount of other democracies (not that I agree with it, as I am a supporter of a secular state, where church and state are divided) and countries.
These examples however still do not match with "Israel is for Jews only". Non-Jews are accepted in Israeli society (I guess especially Christians that is); and in a country where the majority of its citizens are Jewish, that will be the dominant tone in rule.
Now, I understand that some things are seriously wrong. e.g. The Law Of Return is indeed solely based on those who are Jewish. I find it highly unlikely that these things will change; as Israel is indeed the Jewish State (as Germany is the German State, or Ireland is the Irish State), they want the Jews in the diaspora to keep emigrating to Israel.
What I would say is the following: not "Israel is for Jews only", but: "Israel focuses on (diaspora) Jews as their citizens, but do not object to non-Jews living inside its borders".
Oh wait, I still have to answer your question: I do think that a Muslim Arab from Canada can apply for Israeli citizenship (Canada and Israel have diplomatic ties); I can not judge whether he will achieve an Israeli passport. Do you?
RE: New party urges non-Jews
I do not think so. A Canadian Arab born in Arab land will be refused entry, never mind citizenship. I'll give you more details later.
To the first topic, I think we are starting to agree on something. Israel is not the perfect democracy. How is that?
I do not think so. A Canadian Arab born in Arab land will be refused entry, never mind citizenship. I'll give you more details later.
To the first topic, I think we are starting to agree on something. Israel is not the perfect democracy. How is that?
I can come into that yes :wink: , Israel is not acting like a perfect democracy (and you don't even have to look at internal affairs; the way the IDF is acting in the Palestinian Territories tells us enough, not?)
:wink: Of course, it's always nice to meet new people, you would be the second Canadian; the first one wasn't that much of a success; met her in Amsterdam; she was stoned; to the displeasure of an American woman from Alabama, whom I met earlier this year in Rome. 
Something different now: what are the exact titles you get here? I used to be a Forum Master, now I'm a ... Board Expert ... and moghrabi is Obscenely Addicted ... funny 8)