NDP Kyoto Plan

[mcpuck]

The NDP released their Kyoto plan yesterday. Lots of good stuff in there. Check it out.

http://douglas.ndp.ca/kyoto/en/index.php

I'm a big fan of that Jack guy ... new energy sources and technologies that are related to them can make a industry pioneer a lot of money. We should not only go to substainable energies but design technology for mass distribution and marketing as well. Of course providing new technologies to developing countries would be an important practice as well.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Providing new technologies to developing countries is one the important parts of this plan. China and India are both in the position of having to import fossil fuels but neither country has made a major infrastructure investment like we have in the west, so they are less locked-in to fossil fuels.

It's a chance to reduce their emissions while opening up a new area of trade.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Providing new technologies to developing countries is one the important parts of this plan. China and India are both in the position of having to import fossil fuels but neither country has made a major infrastructure investment like we have in the west, so they are less locked-in to fossil fuels.

It's a chance to reduce their emissions while opening up a new area of trade.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Providing new technologies to developing countries is one the important parts of this plan. China and India are both in the position of having to import fossil fuels but neither country has made a major infrastructure investment like we have in the west, so they are less locked-in to fossil fuels.

It's a chance to reduce their emissions while opening up a new area of trade.

 

[Karlin]

Quote:
I believe it is the big oil companies that are part of or the major reason we still use fossil fuels and combustible engines, motors etc. They would be out of work and the cash would stop flowing.
--------------------------------------------------------
We should still try to do our part, even though the "global economic domination" will do "whatever it takes" to keep on burning fossil fuels. Fossil fools...

The economic Elites, who use oil as their currency, will continue to dominate all political decisions until the time when we, the people, stop supporting them with our purchases. Materialism has been promoted as prosperity, and enough people 'buy in', and 'sell out', to keep them on top.

Personal Kharma is a good reason to reduce emissions from driving, heating, energy use.
To make a difference globally, the 3rd world emissions will have to be addressed, and America will have to get on board too. That seems like such a blockage to progress, but when Canada takes the lead, or our personal emissions are reduced, we then have a position to preach from.

Karlin[/quote]

 

[Karlin]

Quote:
I believe it is the big oil companies that are part of or the major reason we still use fossil fuels and combustible engines, motors etc. They would be out of work and the cash would stop flowing.
--------------------------------------------------------
We should still try to do our part, even though the "global economic domination" will do "whatever it takes" to keep on burning fossil fuels. Fossil fools...

The economic Elites, who use oil as their currency, will continue to dominate all political decisions until the time when we, the people, stop supporting them with our purchases. Materialism has been promoted as prosperity, and enough people 'buy in', and 'sell out', to keep them on top.

Personal Kharma is a good reason to reduce emissions from driving, heating, energy use.
To make a difference globally, the 3rd world emissions will have to be addressed, and America will have to get on board too. That seems like such a blockage to progress, but when Canada takes the lead, or our personal emissions are reduced, we then have a position to preach from.

Karlin[/quote]

 

[Karlin]

Quote:
I believe it is the big oil companies that are part of or the major reason we still use fossil fuels and combustible engines, motors etc. They would be out of work and the cash would stop flowing.
--------------------------------------------------------
We should still try to do our part, even though the "global economic domination" will do "whatever it takes" to keep on burning fossil fuels. Fossil fools...

The economic Elites, who use oil as their currency, will continue to dominate all political decisions until the time when we, the people, stop supporting them with our purchases. Materialism has been promoted as prosperity, and enough people 'buy in', and 'sell out', to keep them on top.

Personal Kharma is a good reason to reduce emissions from driving, heating, energy use.
To make a difference globally, the 3rd world emissions will have to be addressed, and America will have to get on board too. That seems like such a blockage to progress, but when Canada takes the lead, or our personal emissions are reduced, we then have a position to preach from.

Karlin[/quote]

 

[Reverend Blair]

Exactly, Karlin. There's also the fact that produce a huge amount of emissions per capita. The people who point at other countries and say, "What about them," are the same people who preach personal responsibility all the time too.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Exactly, Karlin. There's also the fact that produce a huge amount of emissions per capita. The people who point at other countries and say, "What about them," are the same people who preach personal responsibility all the time too.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Exactly, Karlin. There's also the fact that produce a huge amount of emissions per capita. The people who point at other countries and say, "What about them," are the same people who preach personal responsibility all the time too.

 

[Jay]

Yes there is some good stuff in the artical.

I live in Ontario, and from what I understand the Ontario Government pays half of the cost of electricity. It's something like $0.07 a KWh and it really costs $.014 a KWh to produce. It came up when Eves was Premier and he said in the election campaign he wouldn’t reduce the subsidy. It blew my mind, first of all finding out it was happening and another that a so-called conservative was supporting the idea.

If it were not for this sort of subsidy, alternative energy sources would have become allot cheaper and viable by now.

Instead of paying for my electricity consumption, and giving me tax incentives or other subsidies, why not charge the real cost of electricity and allow me to make the choice and I will get my returns through my new energy sources and my energy reduction? If the government would allow for the free market to work this out (as they were sort of implying when they allowed competition in the market) I'm sure allot more ppl would be sending there money to companies that put less pollution into the air when making electricity (I believe it would only be marginally more expensive), or buying new technologies to offset the high cost of electricity from the grid. This is simple.

As a conservative minded person, I simply don't understand the problem here. Is it that the government wants to keep ppl hooked on the grid like an addiction that they have the (cheap) remedy for? All this time and money wasted debating allot of issues that seems to me to be the direct result from foolish government planning.

Big Government = Big Mess.

There were some good ideas in the article. Energy reclamation is one of my favorites. If electricity costs were presented to ppl/companies in there true form, they would have allowed for the market to refine these newer technologies (or older ones, namely Sterling engines, one of my favorite inventions)

Heat loss is a very viable source of electricity, but if we subsidize electricity costs, there is no use in trying to reclaim that heat, or some other means of lowering electricity costs.

We probably then could have forgot about having so many nuclear reactors kicking around, and we wouldn’t be paying for that enormous debt left by Ontario hydro. I’m sure institutions like the former Ontario hydro have more to do with debt generation then electricity generation.

 

[Jay]

Yes there is some good stuff in the artical.

I live in Ontario, and from what I understand the Ontario Government pays half of the cost of electricity. It's something like $0.07 a KWh and it really costs $.014 a KWh to produce. It came up when Eves was Premier and he said in the election campaign he wouldn’t reduce the subsidy. It blew my mind, first of all finding out it was happening and another that a so-called conservative was supporting the idea.

If it were not for this sort of subsidy, alternative energy sources would have become allot cheaper and viable by now.

Instead of paying for my electricity consumption, and giving me tax incentives or other subsidies, why not charge the real cost of electricity and allow me to make the choice and I will get my returns through my new energy sources and my energy reduction? If the government would allow for the free market to work this out (as they were sort of implying when they allowed competition in the market) I'm sure allot more ppl would be sending there money to companies that put less pollution into the air when making electricity (I believe it would only be marginally more expensive), or buying new technologies to offset the high cost of electricity from the grid. This is simple.

As a conservative minded person, I simply don't understand the problem here. Is it that the government wants to keep ppl hooked on the grid like an addiction that they have the (cheap) remedy for? All this time and money wasted debating allot of issues that seems to me to be the direct result from foolish government planning.

Big Government = Big Mess.

There were some good ideas in the article. Energy reclamation is one of my favorites. If electricity costs were presented to ppl/companies in there true form, they would have allowed for the market to refine these newer technologies (or older ones, namely Sterling engines, one of my favorite inventions)

Heat loss is a very viable source of electricity, but if we subsidize electricity costs, there is no use in trying to reclaim that heat, or some other means of lowering electricity costs.

We probably then could have forgot about having so many nuclear reactors kicking around, and we wouldn’t be paying for that enormous debt left by Ontario hydro. I’m sure institutions like the former Ontario hydro have more to do with debt generation then electricity generation.

 

[Jay]

Yes there is some good stuff in the artical.

I live in Ontario, and from what I understand the Ontario Government pays half of the cost of electricity. It's something like $0.07 a KWh and it really costs $.014 a KWh to produce. It came up when Eves was Premier and he said in the election campaign he wouldn’t reduce the subsidy. It blew my mind, first of all finding out it was happening and another that a so-called conservative was supporting the idea.

If it were not for this sort of subsidy, alternative energy sources would have become allot cheaper and viable by now.

Instead of paying for my electricity consumption, and giving me tax incentives or other subsidies, why not charge the real cost of electricity and allow me to make the choice and I will get my returns through my new energy sources and my energy reduction? If the government would allow for the free market to work this out (as they were sort of implying when they allowed competition in the market) I'm sure allot more ppl would be sending there money to companies that put less pollution into the air when making electricity (I believe it would only be marginally more expensive), or buying new technologies to offset the high cost of electricity from the grid. This is simple.

As a conservative minded person, I simply don't understand the problem here. Is it that the government wants to keep ppl hooked on the grid like an addiction that they have the (cheap) remedy for? All this time and money wasted debating allot of issues that seems to me to be the direct result from foolish government planning.

Big Government = Big Mess.

There were some good ideas in the article. Energy reclamation is one of my favorites. If electricity costs were presented to ppl/companies in there true form, they would have allowed for the market to refine these newer technologies (or older ones, namely Sterling engines, one of my favorite inventions)

Heat loss is a very viable source of electricity, but if we subsidize electricity costs, there is no use in trying to reclaim that heat, or some other means of lowering electricity costs.

We probably then could have forgot about having so many nuclear reactors kicking around, and we wouldn’t be paying for that enormous debt left by Ontario hydro. I’m sure institutions like the former Ontario hydro have more to do with debt generation then electricity generation.

 

[no1important]

The historical evidence regarding new technologies shows that nobody will be put out of work except those that refuse to adapt.

Your right there Rev..

I was meaning more to the big wigs/suits at major oil companies. ie. Halliburton and the types.

Nevertheless it is always the dollar that comes first and it would be nice if the envirnoment would come first for a change. But I do not think it is ever going to happen.

Thats why I am a firm believer in getting rid of all money worldwide. Greed is what will wreck this planet.

 

[no1important]

The historical evidence regarding new technologies shows that nobody will be put out of work except those that refuse to adapt.

Your right there Rev..

I was meaning more to the big wigs/suits at major oil companies. ie. Halliburton and the types.

Nevertheless it is always the dollar that comes first and it would be nice if the envirnoment would come first for a change. But I do not think it is ever going to happen.

Thats why I am a firm believer in getting rid of all money worldwide. Greed is what will wreck this planet.

 

[no1important]

The historical evidence regarding new technologies shows that nobody will be put out of work except those that refuse to adapt.

Your right there Rev..

I was meaning more to the big wigs/suits at major oil companies. ie. Halliburton and the types.

Nevertheless it is always the dollar that comes first and it would be nice if the envirnoment would come first for a change. But I do not think it is ever going to happen.

Thats why I am a firm believer in getting rid of all money worldwide. Greed is what will wreck this planet.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The secret is to make the corporations pay for the damage their products do to the environment. If the car and oil companies had to pay the additional costs caused by pollution and knew they were liable for any clean-up required, they'd have clean vehicles on the road already.

Start adding up the costs of increased illness, oil spills, lost tourism, lost productivity, additional education and all the rest and they would have little choice but to smarten up.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The secret is to make the corporations pay for the damage their products do to the environment. If the car and oil companies had to pay the additional costs caused by pollution and knew they were liable for any clean-up required, they'd have clean vehicles on the road already.

Start adding up the costs of increased illness, oil spills, lost tourism, lost productivity, additional education and all the rest and they would have little choice but to smarten up.

 

[Reverend Blair]

The secret is to make the corporations pay for the damage their products do to the environment. If the car and oil companies had to pay the additional costs caused by pollution and knew they were liable for any clean-up required, they'd have clean vehicles on the road already.

Start adding up the costs of increased illness, oil spills, lost tourism, lost productivity, additional education and all the rest and they would have little choice but to smarten up.

 

[peapod]

Dream on.