Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say

[damngrumpy]

Albertans are always bitching about something, this country must come before any one province in an emergency, or crisis.
I see it this way, if these people are jacking up the price because, there is a shortage of fuel, or there is a disruption of service, that constitutes a crisis that threatens the well being of Canadians as a whole, therefore it is a Federal responsibility, to ensure that we all have accress to fuel at reasonable prices. If there is no crisis, or shortage then the oil people are ripping us off, and that is reason enough to have the Feds take action.
It should also be noted that prior to l947, when oil was first discovered in King Ralphs Kingdom, Alberta was a have not Province and other parts of Canada shared their wealth with Albertans.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

It should also be noted that prior to l947, when oil was first discovered in King Ralphs Kingdom, Alberta was a have not Province and other parts of Canada shared their wealth with Albertans.

Oh that is noted quite often around here Grumpy...but the Albertans' rejoinder will run along the lines that they've payed that back a hundred times over...big babies... :binky:

 

[PoisonPete2]

Re: RE: Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say

"Nationalize the industry, jail the executives and lets not have any of this "pay for it a third time" crap."

Welcome to Cuba, 1959.... it's worked real well for them, hasn't it?

Answer - fearmongering to maintain the status quo? Maintain a servile attitude toward America and maybe the U.S. won't beat us up? Cuba 1959 was the overthrowing of an extremely corrupt American backed regime that held on to Cuba for 60 years. Complete with Death Squads and torture. Castro got rid of the Mafia control but those criminals were in bed with a lot of American politicians. Including Nixon. Thus, freeing his people from a crushing oppression won Castro the ire of the U.S. and shortly an economic blockade. This just shows what a bunch of Aholes the Americans are. There are a lot of other countries to trade with. The Americans have proven time after time that they not worthy of trust.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say

Ohh I can see it now as public gas servants go on strike and none of us will get gas.

Honestely though this poll is a knee jerk reaction to the price of oil. Even if the gas companies were nationalized to would have no effect on the world price. We would still pay 2.30 a litre and maybe more with the non productive nature of Gov. companies...Been on an Air Canada flight lately..you really want that service at the pumps???

Air Canada isnt a crown compagnie...

 

[JomZ]

But, its treated like one. Government payouts to buoy the company through its times of turbulence (a little airline humour). Monopoly collapses don't go overwell for shakey economies

 

[Karlin]

I would not have even mentioned it, for fear of the backlash. To see that HALF of Canadians want a nationalised oil industry gives me great hope!!

It would be the greatest social advancement in Canada's modern history.

What doesn't compute is that voting Canadians seems not to realise that voting either Liberal or Conservative is a vote for the "corporate" side. to some degree, they have been tricked into Left and Right politics, when the real thing they want is not either.

Lets take it a step further than just nationalising the oil industry. Add in energy, communications - everything we all use anyways and have no business being in the "marketplace" due to monoploy and conglomerate. No personal choices need to be accomodated like with food [which we all use too], so these "basic staples" of modern life SHOULD be publically supplied.

When you think of it, nationalising basics would cause the cost of living would go wayyyy down due to 'savings' in several areas:
No competition
No advertising
Steady measured increases in technological advances instead of throwing out all the old phones every two years.

Looking at socialist nations - which I truly believe Canadians really are at heart - that have nationalised these things, we see it is possible. Much better results would be seen in those nations if "American" forces were not working hard against the successess of socialist nations.

Karlin

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

With the price of oil rising, why should MNCs hog all the profits and put next to nothing into alternative fuels? The oil companies are not energy companies, meaning they are not willing to look at other forms of profitable fuel. Why should they, the US Geological Survey recently placed Canada second after Saudi Arabia last year in world oil reserves. We moved up by magic from 20th. Amazing.

Ralph Klein recently mouthed that Alberta spends enough billions on Confederation. Perhaps Albertans will change their tune when gas is $2 a litre and everyone wants relief. Which will be lower taxes or nationalization I think.

 

[Vitamin C]

When you think of it, nationalising basics would cause the cost of living would go wayyyy down due to 'savings' in several areas:
No competition
No advertising
Steady measured increases in technological advances instead of throwing out all the old phones every two years.

Karlin

Explaint to me how reducing competition could lower prices? The problem with today's economics is that there is not enough competition. When companies get too big they are able to decimate competition and control the markets...

We need a government willing to nurture and ensure competition and capitalism.

The reason people today are unhappy with the way our economies are going is the same reason people are scared of communism.

They are both situations where there is an all-powerful force that controls without question how the markets work.

The problem is we need MORE competition!

 

[damngrumpy]

Its not a case of nationalizing everything, its a case of controlling who owns the industry and who controls access to the supply.
We have used rationing before in time of war, to ensure we all get what is required to survive in our society.
The good of the nation and the Canadian people must come first, before dividends, and a steady supply to those who don't live in Canada. I say one price for Canadians and a much higher price for those of other countries. But Canadians must have first access to their own resourse. As for Albertans, Ontarians, Quebecers and Britiish Columbians, well we have been bitching ever since we got a coat of arms, and an official piece of land on the map.
Remember the Atlantic Provinces, they have found oil and gas too off their coastal regions and soon they will be paying us for using the name Canadian as well. This is all one country and things ebb and flow we should all quit whining and get on with being a nation.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The oil companies should continue to develope the public resource that is oil, because they are more efficient. However, their desire to be private should be limited. They will make their %10 ROI, but the gov't royalties will take the excess for the good of the Cdn public. The public should not bear the brunt of high oil and gas prices while oil companies and shareholders reap the immense profits.


The gold bugs are talking about the relationship between oil and gold at:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/hommelberg042205.html

A French report states that oil might be $380 per barrel in less than ten years.

Will oil strike $380 a barrel by 2015 ?
By Adam Porter in Perpignan, France
April 21, 2005

A report prepared by energy economists at the French investment bank Ixis-CIB has warned crude oil prices could touch $380 a barrel by 2015.

Analysts Patrick Artus and Moncef Kaabi said in the next 10 years demand for oil will outstrip supply by around 8 million barrels per day (mbpd).

"If one takes into account the level of previous oil shocks such as in the 1970's, we don't think a price level of $380 per barrel is out of the question," they said. END.


There is oil, but we are at the end of CHEAP OIL.

 

[Musicman]

It should also be noted that prior to l947, when oil was first discovered in King Ralphs Kingdom, Alberta was a have not Province and other parts of Canada shared their wealth with Albertans.

Oh that is noted quite often around here Grumpy...but the Albertans' rejoinder will run along the lines that they've payed that back a hundred times over...big babies... :binky:

Grumpy, you are right, but gee, 1947 was what, 58 years ago? Since then, exactly how much has Alberta put back into the country, as Vanni noted. Of course Alberta has paid that back, complete with interest. In the meantime, there are provinces that have collected from Canada for many years before and since 1947. At what point do these provinces start contributing to the country?

It has to be noted that Alberta currently contributes almost $1billion per year MORE THAN THE ROYALTIES THE ALBERTA GOVERNMENT EARNS FROM THE OIL INDUSTRY. It also has to be noted that ALBERTANS CONTRIBUTE MORE PER PERSON THAN ANY OTHER CANADIAN TO CANADA. Albertans contribute almost $3,000 per many, woman, and child in transfer payments, while Ontarians, the next largest contributors in transfer payments, contribute less than $1900 per person.

These are not opinons, they are facts. Thus, any claims that Alberta and Albertans do not "share with the rest of Canada" are totally false, and anyone who disagrees with the figures put forth here are welcome to rebut them. But please rebut them with apples vs apples comparisons. For instance, it is true that the province of Ontario contributes more TOTAL in transfer payments, but far less PER CAPITA in transfer payments.

As much as the ROC says that Albertans whine, the same is more than true about the ROC whining about Alberta. You don't like it, make your provinces do what Alberta did in the early nineties, cut spending, get out of debt, lower taxes, and then there can be a rational discussion.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

Great Point MusicMan.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Ralph Klein says, "you can't have our oil." When the price of oil goes through the roof, is it business as usual? That is why many are glad Ralph is on his way out, tired old Ralph.

 

[spidercide]

Wrote:
Seems to be a common theme from certain people in Alberta. They think they are better than the rest of us.
I think they are scared sh*tless that oil will be nationalized.

No, we don't think we are better. We just all remember the last time this was attempted and how the rest of Canada basically said FU when it all went to s**t.

I don't think that we are scared at all that you guys will try to nationalize it AGAIN, but you are right the landscape will be different. We will be leaving.
Fix your own problems the way Canada made Alberta do it. Until then keep your greedy hands out of my pockets!

 

[spidercide]

Quote:
You don't like it, make your provinces do what Alberta did in the early nineties, cut spending, get out of debt, lower taxes, and then there can be a rational discussion.


You said it brother, you said it.
It is just like the health care debates. Yeah Alberta wants to kill health care and leave people dying in the streets. In reality, we are the only province that has secondary bills enshrining the health care act of Canada. And unlike Quebec we don't have private hospitals(yet)

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

You know, the NEP might of actually been a godsend. Yea it destroyed investment in Alberta so Trudeau could feed the industrial base in eastern Canada, however we have recovered. It has made Albertans more aware of the Feds, thus crushing any hopes they can put one over us again.

Anyone saying Albertans are greedy neo cons is just not well informed. Its a fact the avg Albertan contributes the most per capita back to Canada. Without equalization payments from Alberta as well as Ontario tell me where Canada would be.

Also spider you bring up a good point that Quebec is more Private when it comes to health care. Yet if we were discussing Quebec the fact would be ignored because Quebec is a left leaning province. If Quebec wants to seperate no one critisizes them, but if Albertans talk about previous injustices we are all dumped on!

I read a few days ago that Quebecers wanted more of a slice of Albertas surplus and supported nationalization of oil firms. Quite interensting since that would be through equilization payments which is a NATIONAL program. So they should have a say in how Canadian money is redistributed but want no part of Canada.... hmmmm.

 

[spidercide]

As my tagline says....give us a reason.
I love Canada, but this is no longer the Canada I grew up in, was raised in and was taught about. I am old enough that they actually did teach me history in school.

I would not consider it seperation anymore, I would consider it reclaiming Canada. A Canada where victims have protection not criminals, where the governemtn was accountable to it's citizens and where reality trumps feelings.

Where I, through my representatives make the decisions about my life, not some judge that has no accountabiltiy or directive from me.

All the ROC of Canada always harps about the Constitution and how Ralph and the 'rednecks' would rip it up. Well guess what, that same Constitution says stay the F**k away from our resources. It's OK for the ROC to pick and choose.

I for one refuse to see the suicides and broken populace from the 80's.

Unlike Quebec, we won't threaten, we will DICTATE how we are leaving.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: Nationalize oil firms, almost half of Canadians say

Also spider you bring up a good point that Quebec is more Private when it comes to health care. Yet if we were discussing Quebec the fact would be ignored because Quebec is a left leaning province. If Quebec wants to seperate no one critisizes them, but if Albertans talk about previous injustices we are all dumped on!

I read a few days ago that Quebecers wanted more of a slice of Albertas surplus and supported nationalization of oil firms. Quite interensting since that would be through equilization payments which is a NATIONAL program. So they should have a say in how Canadian money is redistributed but want no part of Canada.... hmmmm.

Actually there was a discussion about the recent court decision on healthcare in Quebec that may change the face of things here: http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5462&highlight=healthcare jump right on in man.

 

[spidercide]

I gotta go,

but actually what I see from that forum is not that Quebec is privatizing and getting bashed for it. People are not all over them for it. In Quebecs case it is the Feds that screwed the pooch. That is the common comment from most posters. Exactly as Hank and myself said. When it is Quebec privatizing it is because the feds screwed up, when Alberta does it we are raping the Canadian value system and trying to make the sick destitute.

Maybe I am not seeing youtr point here Jo.

Also, don't forget Quebec has had private hospitals and doctors for decades, only now though it is a court decision.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Albertans cite the const. which grants prov. ownership of resources. Except oil is the nectar of our modern life, it is not potash, lumber, or fish, but our food, drugs, and transportation lifeline.

Alberta is a model for governmental efficiency, which so many in Canada see as a big teat to constantly suck on. However, Alberta is going to have to get creative with its fabulous wealth, or the piece of paper called the const. is going to be edited.