Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam /Violence Are not linked

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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My apologies for the length.

Here's an interesting story from Time.

Every day, we see the violent, destructive effects of old world, Islamic thinking. The destruction of property, injuries and death - primarily the innocent, women and children.

On this forum, evidence of this regressive, violent thinking is seen in selfsame's posts. His hatred of Jews, Zionists and anyone who challenges him is consistent with the theme of Staquf's message. His threats, and viper's tongue lash out almost daily. selfsame is a prime example of this debilitating, violent, old world thinking.

Muslims have to get their act together. They have to fix their own problems, and let the backward thinking, violence prone, older generation, represented by those like selfsame (EA Nassir), to reform or die off. Their negative, hateful and violent ways will only keep the Muslim world isolated.

After this article, I have included the Jihad Report, compiled by thereligionofpeace.com, for the last week of August, 2017.

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KH. Yahya Cholil Staquf, General Secretary, Nahdlatul Ulama Supreme Council and Director of Religious Affairs, Bayt ar-Rahmah, addresses the Council of the European Union TWP (Terrorism Working Party), Brussels, Belgium.

[youtube]WTtfGkYLv1Y[/youtube]

In Interview, Top Indonesian Muslim Scholar Says Stop Pretending That Orthodox Islam and Violence Aren't Linked

Marco Stahlhut
Sep 07, 2017

Indonesia, the world’s biggest Muslim-majority country, has a constitution that recognizes other major religions, and practices a syncretic form of Islam that draws on not just the faith’s tenets but local spiritual and cultural traditions. As a result, the nation has long been a voice of, and for, moderation in the Islamic world.

Yet Indonesia is not without its radical elements. Though most are on the fringe, they can add up to a significant number given Indonesia’s 260-million population. In the early 2000s, the country was terrorized by Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), a homegrown extremist organization allied with al-Qaeda. JI’s deadliest attack was the 2002 Bali bombing that killed 202 people. While JI has been neutralized, ISIS has claimed responsibility for recent, smaller terrorist incidents in the country and has inspired some Indonesians to fight in Syria — Indonesians who could pose a threat when they return home. The country has also seen the rise of hate groups that preach intolerance and violence against local religious and ethnic minorities, which include Shia and Ahmadiya Muslims.

Among Indonesia’s most influential Islamic leaders is Yahya Cholil Staquf, 51,advocates a modern, moderate Islam. He is general secretary of the Nahdlatul Ulama, which, with about 50 million members, is the country’s biggest Muslim organization. Yahya. This interview, notable for Yahya’s candor, was first published on Aug. 19 in German in Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Here are excerpts translated from the original Bahasa Indonesia into English.

Many Western politicians and intellectuals say that Islamist terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. What is your view?

Western politicians should stop pretending that extremism and terrorism have nothing to do with Islam. There is a clear relationship between fundamentalism, terrorism, and the basic assumptions of Islamic orthodoxy. So long as we lack consensus regarding this matter, we cannot gain victory over fundamentalist violence within Islam.

Radical Islamic movements are nothing new. They’ve appeared again and again throughout our own history in Indonesia. The West must stop ascribing any and all discussion of these issues to “Islamophobia.” Or do people want to accuse me — an Islamic scholar — of being an Islamophobe too?

What basic assumptions within traditional Islam are problematic?

The relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims, the relationship of Muslims with the state, and Muslims’ relationship to the prevailing legal system wherever they live … Within the classical tradition, the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims is assumed to be one of segregation and enmity.

The rest here.

Top Muslim Scholar: Orthodox Islam and Violence 'Linked' | Time.com

Here's the Jihad Report for the last week of August, 2017

Jihad Report
for Aug 26, 2017 - Sep 01, 2017

Attacks 36
Killed 150
Injured 153
Suicide Blasts 7
Countries 15
 
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Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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My apologies for the length.

Here's an interesting story from Time.

Every day, we see the violent, destructive effects of old world, Islamic thinking. The destruction of property, injuries and death - primarily the innocent, women and children.

On this forum, evidence of this regressive, violent thinking is seen in selfsame's posts. His hatred of Jews, Zionists and anyone who challenges him is consistent with the theme of Staquf's message. His threats, and viper's tongue lash out almost daily. selfsame is a prime example of this debilitating, violent, old world thinking.

Muslims have to get their act together. They have to fix their own problems, and let the backward thinking, violence prone, older generation, represented by those like selfsame (EA Nassir), to reform or die off. Their negative, hateful and violent ways will only keep the Muslim world isolated.

Countries 15
True, but unfortunately for all, Muslims will not change their failed and ignorant ways, they have not done so in the past, no evidence they want to change (except for their words but not their deeds) in the future, they will continue to follow their book of hate and violence for a very long time to come.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
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Muslims have to get their act together. They have to fix their own problems, and let the backward thinking, violence prone, older generation, represented by those like selfsame (EA Nassir), to reform or die off. Their negative, hateful and violent ways will only keep the Muslim world isolated.

If every country would make marrying kin illegal, they'd be well on their way to getting their act together.
 

Murphy

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Apr 12, 2013
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True, but unfortunately for all, Muslims will not change their failed and ignorant ways, they have not done so in the past, no evidence they want to change (except for their words but not their deeds) in the future, they will continue to follow their book of hate and violence for a very long time to come.

That has been the case for much of the world. I think that Staquf's observations, specifically, pushing back against old world Islam, should be examined more closely by the rest of the world. He's offering guidance.

I think he has something positive to offer. The question is, will the world listen to an unknown person from Indonesia?
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
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I think its has a giant hand in the violence and insanity that runs rampant in that cult.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01067435

I've never seen that study. It indicates that inbreeding may indeed play a role.

WRT to Staquf's observations and offer of help, it seems that while he says that Muslims must help themselves, he also indicated that the non-Muslim word can play a role in the transformation. It will not be a quick change, that's for sure, but if nothing is done, bombs will drop and it won't be the Muslims dropping them. They'll be receiving, in their end zone!
 
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Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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well wouldn't you consult a book if you hadn't enough brain cells to form an intelligent thought on your own?
Yeah, I guess you have point.

Too much inbreeding, and messing around with those goats eh!!

I've never seen that study. It indicates that inbreeding may indeed play a role.

WRT to Staquf's observations and offer of help, it seems that while he says that Muslims must help themselves, he also indicated that the non-Muslim word can play a role is the transformation. It will not be a quick change, that's for sure, but if nothing is done, bombs will drop and it won't be the Muslims dropping them. They'll be receiving, in their end zone!

Muslims will not listen to non Muslims, it's in their Book, non Muslims should be killed.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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Canada
Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
 

Murphy

Executive Branch Member
Apr 12, 2013
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Yeah, I guess you have point. Too much inbreeding, and messing around with those goats eh!!

Muslims will not listen to non Muslims, it's in their Book, non Muslims should be killed.

I don't think Staquf is suggesting that non-Muslims talk to them directly. That's been tried for a long time and didn't amount to much. I think he means that they would act as supporting players. How that could be done would mean studying Indonesia's experience.
 

Johnnny

Frontiersman
Jun 8, 2007
9,388
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63
Third rock from the Sun
We need to focus more on the Muslim countries in the Middle East than on Israel.

Muslim countries talking about Human Rights... LULZ

Do Muslim countries even know what "Human Rights" are? With all the petro dollars they are using to buy seats in the UN council, one would think they do?


[youtube]35eEljsSQfc[/youtube]
 

brah

Time Out
Sep 8, 2017
44
0
6
Yeah the Saudis....still waiting for the west to treat them the same way as Iran.