More bad news on the environment

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Winnipeg
The earth can handle 2km long meteorites slamming into it, but it can't handle this?

That led to a mass extinction, Jay. Everything bigger than a chicken died. The earth will handle this in a similar way in a similar way, if we don't smarten up.

I don't believe that sort of fear mongering

It isn't fear mongering, it's the truth. Look at the problems; look how little we have done to address them; look at the resistance, including from people like you, we still face in addressing them.

Corporations will do this if they are made to.

That requires government regulation and international agreements because....

I think they will follow the laws we make for them.

...we have to make the laws.

I watch and hear what is going on, although I don't hear CEO making environmental speeches all the time, but I do see a changing consumer and a want of the people to be more responsible, and I see pressure on corporations to change, and I see commercials on TV showing that the changes are happening.

You mean the ads for SUVs, Barbie dolls wrapped in four layers of plastic, consumer goods produced in developing nations to skirt environmental regulations, prepackaged, processed foods containing GMOs that are doing who knows how damage to natural eco-systems, and generally promoting lifestyles that are only sustainable in tv-fantasyland? Yeah. I've seen those ads too.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
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PEI...for now
The earth can handle 2km long meteorites slamming into it, but it can't handle this? I doubt it. It will be fine as we progress along with our new developments. The future looks bright to me.

You're right, the earth can handle things like that. Over time the Earth does regenerate and recuperate. HOWEVER the human race have needs that must be met with every day in order to survive. If the earth would not provide for us for one year, our numbers would drop along with any economy whatsoever. Now what if we fudge things to where the earth may take a few millenia break from sustaining us. The earth may pop back but, what would be left with us is where we would've left off 20,000 years ago.

I noticed crap like this happening up north back in '94. Suddenly the spring that usually takes place over a month happened in one day, normally that's a freak of nature but when it happens every year? Hell in Jan 2004 it rained in Kugluktuk!! That may not seem much to some of you but at that time of year it's supposed to be -35 to -45 without the wind, on average (with wind) it's -50 to -65!.

Naw, it's all in our heads isn't it?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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"look at the resistance, including from people like you, we still face in addressing them. "

of coarse your going to meet resistance to bad ideas like Kyoto.

We want similair things, just diffrent approches.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: More bad news on the

Your approach hasn't worked, Jay. Things have gotten worse since those who share your ideas have been in charge. In fact, it is people with the same ideas as you who made the mess in the first place.

There's a book you need to read, Jay. You can order it from CBC Ideas Transcripts or order it at your bookstore. It's called A Brief History of Progress and it's written by Ronald Wright.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
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PEI...for now
It's called A Brief History of Progress and it's written by Ronald Wright

Never read the book, but I'm listening to it the second time around. It's an excellent lecture, and with an archaeologist having analyzing what's happened before comparing things going on now is very eerie.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: More bad news on the

I ordered the book when I heard it the first time. Now I'm reading book again while listening to it for the second time.

That book should be put into schools as part of the regular curriculum. It's just a transcript of the Massey Hall lectures though.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
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PEI...for now
Unfortunately I get to miss it tonight. :x Stuck at work answering retarted calls. I may just have to find the book.

That book should be put into schools as part of the regular curriculum

You're right though it can easily be placed in any social studies/sociology/current event/or archaeological class.
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
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7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Gonzo said:
I saw that on TV. today. It's so depressing. I also argued with someone at work who thinks that it's all junk science. Unbelievable. There's not much hope when people believe in fundamentalists and not science.

How do you know this report to be fact? You realize science has been wrong before, correct? "Science" once told us the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. How many current studies show us coffee is bad for us? How many current studies show us coffee is good?

Further, there are data and science that disagree with the "facts" in this report. So I ask again, how do you know what is the truth here.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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38
Winnipeg
RE: More bad news on the

Have you read the report, Paco? Do you undestand the amount of work that went into it? There is no reputable science that contradicts this, BTW. You don't know what you're talking about.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
1
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PEI...for now
How do you know this report to be fact? You realize science has been wrong before, correct? "Science" once told us the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. How many current studies show us coffee is bad for us? How many current studies show us coffee is good?

Further, there are data and science that disagree with the "facts" in this report. So I ask again, how do you know what is the truth here.

You're right it's hard to find the truth, but more and more independant studies are coming up with depressing findings, especially when it's done by many different countries. How about personal experience, I dont' ususally like repeating myself but...

I noticed crap like this happening up north back in '94. Suddenly the spring that usually takes place over a month happened in one day, normally that's a freak of nature but when it happens every year? Hell in Jan 2004 it rained in Kugluktuk!! That may not seem much to some of you but at that time of year it's supposed to be -35 to -45 without the wind, on average (with wind) it's -50 to -65!.

The Arctic is essentially the Canary of the environment. Life is hard enough as is up there and any change is noticeable. Now that was about 10 years ago when I was noticing the changes and back then, the concern for warming was considerd a myth.

Tell your buddy to go travel up North and talk with people there if he can't believe anything that's in print or on T.V. Anyone who disagrees is essentially doing the ostritch thing, that's not the way to handle a problem.
 

Rick van Opbergen

House Member
Sep 16, 2004
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The Netherlands
www.google.com
Paco said:
Gonzo said:
I saw that on TV. today. It's so depressing. I also argued with someone at work who thinks that it's all junk science. Unbelievable. There's not much hope when people believe in fundamentalists and not science.

How do you know this report to be fact? You realize science has been wrong before, correct? "Science" once told us the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. How many current studies show us coffee is bad for us? How many current studies show us coffee is good?

Further, there are data and science that disagree with the "facts" in this report. So I ask again, how do you know what is the truth here.
Yes, we do not know whether the report is entirely correct. But even if only a tenth of this would be correct (I personally think it is more though, after years of reading and all), it would still mean something serious is going on (to use an understatement).
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: More bad news on the

I think anybody whop spends a significant amount of time in nature has seen the changes. It isn't just global warming, although the predictions for the impacts of that are coming true, just much faster than we thought they would.

Even here on the prairies you can see the changes. We are arguably the most altered ecosystem on the planet and have been for the better part of a century. For things to have changed since I was a kid shows taht we are damaging the systems that survived our original onslaught.

Here we are seeing fewer dragonflies, fewer frogs, I haven't seen a salamander in years, fewer birds of prey, more winter-kill of deer and on and on. Even the snake pits at Narcisse (sp?) are in decline. The Carberry Desert is all but gone. Fish stocks are way down. Bears are coming into the city in search of food.

To deny that something is happening is to be willfully and stupidly blind. To question the work of scientists from all over the world and from almost every scientific discipline is an inane response from somebody to lazy and greedy to acknowledge reality.