More b.s. from French-Canada......
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That's only one line, Ger...
But I agree with you. My high school French teacher, a Scot who prided herself on her Parisian accent, said that in reality, Québecois was probably the most pure form of French, as it's been "isolated" for a few centuries. I can't remember her exact reasoning, but that's the gist.
But I agree with you. My high school French teacher, a Scot who prided herself on her Parisian accent, said that in reality, Québecois was probably the most pure form of French, as it's been "isolated" for a few centuries. I can't remember her exact reasoning, but that's the gist.
The French spoken in Quebec is different from France,, which is different from the French spoken in Louisianna. In fact the French spoken in and around Paris is different than that spoken in other areas of France or in some of the former French colonies. Just like the culture of these different areas is different than France.
Quebec has a unique culture that has developed over the years because of it's isolation from France and the influence of the English and the Natives. This unique culture is what the Quebecois want to save and allow to grow. This unique culture is what was gaurenteed to the French Canadians when the war between England and France was won by the English. There were many things promised by the English to the French of Lower Canada. Some of those promises were kept, many have not.
It would be best for "some" people to do a little research into the history of Canada concerning French Canadians inparticular before they start spouting off.
Quebec has a unique culture that has developed over the years because of it's isolation from France and the influence of the English and the Natives. This unique culture is what the Quebecois want to save and allow to grow. This unique culture is what was gaurenteed to the French Canadians when the war between England and France was won by the English. There were many things promised by the English to the French of Lower Canada. Some of those promises were kept, many have not.
It would be best for "some" people to do a little research into the history of Canada concerning French Canadians inparticular before they start spouting off.
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
Yes, pure in the sense that it is an older form of French which dates back to the time of Louis XIV, when the king, himself, would have spoken like a Quebecer of today, saying "le roé c'est moé" instead of the modern French "le roi c'est moi".
The language spoken in Québec ceased to be a standard of French centuries past and is now an abberration according to the norms established by the francophonie.
When francophone Quebecers talk about preserving the French language in North America, they are in fact refering to an archaic form which is in no way related to the international french taught in immersion programs across Canada.
If you can discern the difference between good French and poor French, consider the following example of mediocrity: http://www3.sympatico.ca/dumasmar/logs/HAPPYGIRL.htm
The ROC has been duped into believing Quebecers want to preserve the French language to the detriment of English, when in fact they are also resisting the adoption of French, proper French, International French, in Quebec.
LadyC said:
Yes, pure in the sense that it is an older form of French which dates back to the time of Louis XIV, when the king, himself, would have spoken like a Quebecer of today, saying "le roé c'est moé" instead of the modern French "le roi c'est moi".
The language spoken in Québec ceased to be a standard of French centuries past and is now an abberration according to the norms established by the francophonie.
When francophone Quebecers talk about preserving the French language in North America, they are in fact refering to an archaic form which is in no way related to the international french taught in immersion programs across Canada.
If you can discern the difference between good French and poor French, consider the following example of mediocrity: http://www3.sympatico.ca/dumasmar/logs/HAPPYGIRL.htm
The ROC has been duped into believing Quebecers want to preserve the French language to the detriment of English, when in fact they are also resisting the adoption of French, proper French, International French, in Quebec.
Yeah, there are a couple of towns like that in Saskatchewan too, and several here in Manitoba. Don't count on being able to get service in French in any of those provinces though.
As for Quebecois compared to French spoken in other places...so what? The English we speak is quite different than what is spoken in England, the US, Australia, etc. Within each of those areas there are accents and even sub-dialects. Watch a NASCAR race sometime...does that sound like anything spoken in Canada? Talk to a person from the north of England...is what they're speaking still English?
Re: RE: More b.s. from French
Just in the work place and on signs.
No need to be fearful, the Quebec gestapo can't touch you for simply speaking non-french.
double 2 said:
Just in the work place and on signs.
No need to be fearful, the Quebec gestapo can't touch you for simply speaking non-french.
Here's a short primer on Canadian history regarding Quebecs place in Confederation.
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/readings/queconf.htm
There's alot more info there too. To understand Quebec one must understand it's history and how it came about.
http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory/readings/queconf.htm
There's alot more info there too. To understand Quebec one must understand it's history and how it came about.
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
My point is that it is disingenuous for Quebec's elite to keep misappropriating French culture and language. Whenever the issue of Québec's identity within Canada comes up, les pures laines and their apologists do their utmost to blur the distinction between French and Quebecois culture because it would hurt their cause if more people knew just how lowbrow the sovereignist identity is in Quebec. If the pures laines presented themselves for what they really are, an inbred peasant class weighed down by all the consequences of an arrested development, it wouldn't advance their cause in the eyes of Quebecers whose origins are Irish, Greek, Jewish, Armenian, Mahgreb, etc. .
Pity the poor French! Poutine is not french cuisine. In France it wouldn't even be fit for a dog.
gerryh said:
My point is that it is disingenuous for Quebec's elite to keep misappropriating French culture and language. Whenever the issue of Québec's identity within Canada comes up, les pures laines and their apologists do their utmost to blur the distinction between French and Quebecois culture because it would hurt their cause if more people knew just how lowbrow the sovereignist identity is in Quebec. If the pures laines presented themselves for what they really are, an inbred peasant class weighed down by all the consequences of an arrested development, it wouldn't advance their cause in the eyes of Quebecers whose origins are Irish, Greek, Jewish, Armenian, Mahgreb, etc. .
Pity the poor French! Poutine is not french cuisine. In France it wouldn't even be fit for a dog.
I don't see them doing that at all. I do see the promotion of Quebecois culture, including its language, food, and traditions. Not a lot different than any other group, really.
Sorry, I just gotta step in and agree with Mediana for a second. Having lived in Quebec for a while, I'm very aware that:
- French food is nothing like Quebec food and vice versa
- Quebecois is incomprehensable to French people.. The swiss and belgian can't even really make out what they're trying to say.
- The whole culture thing, while maybe linked to 19th century French culture, is not the same as current-day France.
Hope I cleared up some stuff.
- French food is nothing like Quebec food and vice versa
- Quebecois is incomprehensable to French people.. The swiss and belgian can't even really make out what they're trying to say.
- The whole culture thing, while maybe linked to 19th century French culture, is not the same as current-day France.
Hope I cleared up some stuff.
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
That's just wonderful and no arguments from anywhere on any of that...BUT..... when talking about quebec(french) culture and language they are not talking about France(french) culture and language. It is Quebec...Quebecois...... NOT France... it is unique and seperate. Throwing in France is a red herring put forward by those that know not what they are talking about and are unable to mount any kind of an argument against preserving the French(Quebec) culture and language.
Andem said:Sorry, I just gotta step in and agree with Mediana for a second. Having lived in Quebec for a while, I'm very aware that:
- French food is nothing like Quebec food and vice versa
- Quebecois is incomprehensable to French people.. The swiss and belgian can't even really make out what they're trying to say.
- The whole culture thing, while maybe linked to 19th century French culture, is not the same as current-day France.
That's just wonderful and no arguments from anywhere on any of that...BUT..... when talking about quebec(french) culture and language they are not talking about France(french) culture and language. It is Quebec...Quebecois...... NOT France... it is unique and seperate. Throwing in France is a red herring put forward by those that know not what they are talking about and are unable to mount any kind of an argument against preserving the French(Quebec) culture and language.
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
The same as yours, namely that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language.
By your own admission, your teacher -- whom you mentioned was Scottish -- is doing more to promote the French language in Canada than the so-called pure laine Quebecers. She is not alone. There are teachers of all ethnic backgrounds including Anglo-Saxons who are busy at work across Canada teaching proper French.
Joual speaking Quebecers, and separatists in particular, clearly have no idea what they are talking about when they make the claim they are the defenders of French in North America. If anything, they undermine efforts to use International French as a binding force for francophones of all walks of life in Canada.
LadyC said:
The same as yours, namely that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language.
By your own admission, your teacher -- whom you mentioned was Scottish -- is doing more to promote the French language in Canada than the so-called pure laine Quebecers. She is not alone. There are teachers of all ethnic backgrounds including Anglo-Saxons who are busy at work across Canada teaching proper French.
Joual speaking Quebecers, and separatists in particular, clearly have no idea what they are talking about when they make the claim they are the defenders of French in North America. If anything, they undermine efforts to use International French as a binding force for francophones of all walks of life in Canada.
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
The real red herring in this whole thread is the word "French".
Repeat after me: Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec patois is not French.
Your problem gerryh is that your way of thinking makes no allowances for recent immigrants from France to enjoy their culture in Canada the way all other nationalities on the planet can. The real French are persona non grata. Let the pures laines usurp their cultural identity, eh?
gerryh said:
The real red herring in this whole thread is the word "French".
Repeat after me: Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec patois is not French.
Your problem gerryh is that your way of thinking makes no allowances for recent immigrants from France to enjoy their culture in Canada the way all other nationalities on the planet can. The real French are persona non grata. Let the pures laines usurp their cultural identity, eh?
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
That's right...Quebecois is NOT French(as in France french) but is still French, just like the language spoken in the rest of Canada is called English but when compared to the English spoken in some parts of London (let alone some parts of England) is nowhere near the same(try understanding cockny....lol). Quebec has been gaurenteed cultural and language autonomy. You can call it what you want, I really don't give a shit. The fact still remains that Quebec was given certain rights, was made certain promises and it is well within their rights to ensure that THEIR culture and Language is not diluted or usurped by someone elses.
Quebec has a unique position in Canada, and it is a position that was fought long and hard for.
Mediana said:
That's right...Quebecois is NOT French(as in France french) but is still French, just like the language spoken in the rest of Canada is called English but when compared to the English spoken in some parts of London (let alone some parts of England) is nowhere near the same(try understanding cockny....lol). Quebec has been gaurenteed cultural and language autonomy. You can call it what you want, I really don't give a shit. The fact still remains that Quebec was given certain rights, was made certain promises and it is well within their rights to ensure that THEIR culture and Language is not diluted or usurped by someone elses.
Quebec has a unique position in Canada, and it is a position that was fought long and hard for.
Mediana...
I should perhaps mention that when my teacher went to Paris with her "perfect Parisian accent" no-one could understand her. Her husband with his Québecois accent, on the other hand...
And please, don't insult my intelligence by pretending you were trying to point out that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language when you posted the picture of poutine. If that were the case, why would you describe it as something that wouldn't even be fit for a dog in France?
I should perhaps mention that when my teacher went to Paris with her "perfect Parisian accent" no-one could understand her. Her husband with his Québecois accent, on the other hand...
And please, don't insult my intelligence by pretending you were trying to point out that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language when you posted the picture of poutine. If that were the case, why would you describe it as something that wouldn't even be fit for a dog in France?
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
why do some english ppl insist on spellin colour w/o the u regonalism just bear that in mind
and the quebec french language is not archaic shure some ppl have an ccent but genraly its the same
hey some schools in quebec do follow the norm of internationation french a as said before it is a dialectMediana said:
why do some english ppl insist on spellin colour w/o the u regonalism just bear that in mind
and the quebec french language is not archaic shure some ppl have an ccent but genraly its the same
Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......
Rubbish.
How can a "perfect Parisian accent" be unintelligible in Paris? Your second-hand anecdote makes absolutely no sense.
I lived in Paris for four years and I can tell you for a fact that Jane Birkin's French is infintely more comprehensible to the French than Linda Lemay's. The accent, syntax and vocabulary of the Quebecois dialect is very difficult for the French to understand -- Ah j'sais qu't'es en hostie pi qu't'en as jusque là vec moé, mais tabarnouche, tabarouette, t'es triste LadyC comme un vieux crisse!.
Firstly, your intelligence, or lack thereof, is not at issue here.
Secondly, I used the example of poutine to demonstrate how this staple of the Quebecois diet is the very antithesis of French food -- thus making the point Quebecers are not the defenders of French culture. Any Quebecer who makes the claim they are proctecting French culture in North America is a scurrilous liar. For decades Quebecers have conspired to downplay the significance of francophone populations in other provinces (including the Acadians of New Brunswick) as a way of bolstering their claims of distinctiveness. Separatists have a tradition of playing both sides of the french debate. Their contempt for other francophones outside la belle province is secondary only to their hatred of les Anglais et les Allophones. Qu'ils aient au diable, bandes de crétins.
LadyC said:Mediana...
I should perhaps mention that when my teacher went to Paris with her "perfect Parisian accent" no-one could understand her. Her husband with his Québecois accent, on the other hand...
Rubbish.
How can a "perfect Parisian accent" be unintelligible in Paris? Your second-hand anecdote makes absolutely no sense.
I lived in Paris for four years and I can tell you for a fact that Jane Birkin's French is infintely more comprehensible to the French than Linda Lemay's. The accent, syntax and vocabulary of the Quebecois dialect is very difficult for the French to understand -- Ah j'sais qu't'es en hostie pi qu't'en as jusque là vec moé, mais tabarnouche, tabarouette, t'es triste LadyC comme un vieux crisse!.
LadyC said:
Firstly, your intelligence, or lack thereof, is not at issue here.
Secondly, I used the example of poutine to demonstrate how this staple of the Quebecois diet is the very antithesis of French food -- thus making the point Quebecers are not the defenders of French culture. Any Quebecer who makes the claim they are proctecting French culture in North America is a scurrilous liar. For decades Quebecers have conspired to downplay the significance of francophone populations in other provinces (including the Acadians of New Brunswick) as a way of bolstering their claims of distinctiveness. Separatists have a tradition of playing both sides of the french debate. Their contempt for other francophones outside la belle province is secondary only to their hatred of les Anglais et les Allophones. Qu'ils aient au diable, bandes de crétins.