Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V government

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Mass grave of communist soldiers, personal effects uncovered in Vietnam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

at 14:45 on June 26, 2006, EST.

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) - A mass grave with more than 100 sets of remains believed to be those of communist soldiers killed during the Vietnam War has been uncovered, and some had nails embedded in their skulls, an official said Monday.

Construction workers found the first five sets of remains two weeks ago while digging a drainage system for a sports complex in Central Highland province of Gia Lai, about 500 kilometres north of Ho Chi Minh City, said the official from the provincial military command. He identified himself only as Son.

An army excavation team later uncovered 103 more sets of remains from the grave, Son said.

He said that personal effects such as mirrors, combs, watches and pens were found, and that many of the skulls were pierced. Handcuffs also were found, he said.

Authorities suspect that the communist soldiers were arrested during the Tet Offensive in 1968 and killed by U.S.-backed South Vietnamese forces, Son said. The bodies were found near the site of a prison that was run by the U.S.-backed troops, he said.

The remains, all unidentified, were buried at a military cemetery Saturday, Son said.

Authorities uncovered 60 sets of remains in the same area in 1997, the official said.

http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w062671A.xml
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Well the evils the USA did during the Vietnam, Lao and Cambodian wars is legendary and one of the reasons it is easy to have mistrust of american foreign policy.

The fact is even after the wars, the Americans ghost of evil hovered around the region for years to come with the American support of Khmer Rouge, while the Vietnamess army was in Cambodia unearthing how evil the Khmer Rouge were when in power and the fact the only reason the Vietnamess invaded in the first place was that the Khmer Rouge invaded Vietnam first. How could the Americans ever support such a fantical blood thirsty so called communist faction like the Khmer Rouge?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Finder said:
Well the evils the USA did during the Vietnam, Lao and Cambodian wars is legendary and one of the reasons it is easy to have mistrust of american foreign policy.

The fact is even after the wars, the Americans ghost of evil hovered around the region for years to come with the American support of Khmer Rouge, while the Vietnamess army was in Cambodia unearthing how evil the Khmer Rouge were when in power and the fact the only reason the Vietnamess invaded in the first place was that the Khmer Rouge invaded Vietnam first. How could the Americans ever support such a fantical blood thirsty so called communist faction like the Khmer Rouge?

Please, please show me some evidence, some suspicion, some credible source that says the khmer Rouge were backed by the Americans.

Quite the contrary. As far as I know, the KR were totally a tool of the Chinese, NOT the USA.
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
3,786
0
36
Toronto
www.mytimenow.net
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Colpy said:
Finder said:
Well the evils the USA did during the Vietnam, Lao and Cambodian wars is legendary and one of the reasons it is easy to have mistrust of american foreign policy.

The fact is even after the wars, the Americans ghost of evil hovered around the region for years to come with the American support of Khmer Rouge, while the Vietnamess army was in Cambodia unearthing how evil the Khmer Rouge were when in power and the fact the only reason the Vietnamess invaded in the first place was that the Khmer Rouge invaded Vietnam first. How could the Americans ever support such a fantical blood thirsty so called communist faction like the Khmer Rouge?

Please, please show me some evidence, some suspicion, some credible source that says the khmer Rouge were backed by the Americans.

Quite the contrary. As far as I know, the KR were totally a tool of the Chinese, NOT the USA.

It's common knowledge that the US supported both the Khmer Rouge and the Monarchists and other factions fighting the Vietnamess after the Vietnam-Cambodian war and the occupation of Cambodia by the Vietnamess.


http://www.yale.edu/cgp/us.html


Anyhow come on it's not like the first time the USA has supported Terrorist and dictatorships to fight wars they didn't wish to get there hands dirty with.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Finder said:
Colpy said:
Finder said:
Well the evils the USA did during the Vietnam, Lao and Cambodian wars is legendary and one of the reasons it is easy to have mistrust of american foreign policy.

The fact is even after the wars, the Americans ghost of evil hovered around the region for years to come with the American support of Khmer Rouge, while the Vietnamess army was in Cambodia unearthing how evil the Khmer Rouge were when in power and the fact the only reason the Vietnamess invaded in the first place was that the Khmer Rouge invaded Vietnam first. How could the Americans ever support such a fantical blood thirsty so called communist faction like the Khmer Rouge?

Please, please show me some evidence, some suspicion, some credible source that says the khmer Rouge were backed by the Americans.

Quite the contrary. As far as I know, the KR were totally a tool of the Chinese, NOT the USA.

It's common knowledge that the US supported both the Khmer Rouge and the Monarchists and other factions fighting the Vietnamess after the Vietnam-Cambodian war and the occupation of Cambodia by the Vietnamess.


http://www.yale.edu/cgp/us.html


Anyhow come on it's not like the first time the USA has supported Terrorist and dictatorships to fight wars they didn't wish to get there hands dirty with.

I looked carefully at your link and found exactly NOTHING to suggest the Americans backed the Khmer in any substantive way, except for the rantings of Henry Kissinger..........

No material, no nothing.

This is NOT American support of the Khmer Rouge.

If you want to blame someone for the murders in Cambodia, look to China. They are at fault, NOT the Americans.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Colpy said:
Finder said:
Colpy said:
Finder said:
Well the evils the USA did during the Vietnam, Lao and Cambodian wars is legendary and one of the reasons it is easy to have mistrust of american foreign policy.

The fact is even after the wars, the Americans ghost of evil hovered around the region for years to come with the American support of Khmer Rouge, while the Vietnamess army was in Cambodia unearthing how evil the Khmer Rouge were when in power and the fact the only reason the Vietnamess invaded in the first place was that the Khmer Rouge invaded Vietnam first. How could the Americans ever support such a fantical blood thirsty so called communist faction like the Khmer Rouge?

Please, please show me some evidence, some suspicion, some credible source that says the khmer Rouge were backed by the Americans.

Quite the contrary. As far as I know, the KR were totally a tool of the Chinese, NOT the USA.

It's common knowledge that the US supported both the Khmer Rouge and the Monarchists and other factions fighting the Vietnamess after the Vietnam-Cambodian war and the occupation of Cambodia by the Vietnamess.


http://www.yale.edu/cgp/us.html


Anyhow come on it's not like the first time the USA has supported Terrorist and dictatorships to fight wars they didn't wish to get there hands dirty with.

I looked carefully at your link and found exactly NOTHING to suggest the Americans backed the Khmer in any substantive way, except for the rantings of Henry Kissinger..........

No material, no nothing.

This is NOT American support of the Khmer Rouge.

If you want to blame someone for the murders in Cambodia, look to China. They are at fault, NOT the Americans.

Was this when Henry Kissinger was in the American government? If it was, then the U.S government probably supported some groups maybe even the Khmer Rouge, possibly to ensure they weren't taken over by the Vietnamese.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Supporting Pol Pot
excerpted from the book
Rogue State
A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
by William Blum
Common Courage Press, 2000


The Killing Fields...the borders sealed, the cities emptied at gunpoint, a forced march to the countryside...being a professional, knowing a foreign language, wearing eyeglasses, almost anything, might be cause enough for persecution, execution...or the overwork will kill you, or a beating, or the hunger, or disease. For whatever reason: shortage of food, creation of an agrarian society impervious to the economic world order, internal party power, security...well over a million dead at the hands of the Cambodian Communist Party, the Khmer Rouge, under Pol Pot, after ousting the US-supported regime of Lon Nol...the world is horrified, comparisons to the Nazi genocide mushroom, "worse than Hitler" is Pol Pot...
Four years later, January 1979, Vietnam-responding to years of attacks by the Khmer Rouge against ethnic Vietnamese in Cambodia and cross-border raids into Vietnam itself-invaded what was now called Kampuchea, overthrew Pol Pot's government, and installed a government friendly to Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge forces retreated to the western end of Cambodia, by the border with Thailand, and later some set up camp in Thailand itself.
Washington's reaction was not any kind of elation that the Cambodian nightmare had come to an end, but rather undisguised displeasure that the hated Vietnamese were in control and credited with ousting the terrible Khmer Rouge. For years afterwards, the United States condemned Vietnam's actions as "illegal". A lingering bitterness by American cold warriors against the small nation which monumental US power could not defeat appears to be the only explanation for this attitude. Humiliation runs deep, particularly when you're the world's only superpower.
Thus it was that an American policy took root-to provide the Khmer Rouge with food, financial aid and military aid beginning soon after their ouster. The aim, in conjunction with China and long-time American client state, Thailand, was to restore Pol Pot's troops to military capability as the only force which could make the Vietnamese withdraw their army, leading to the overthrow of the Cambodian government.
President Carter's National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, has stated that in the spring of 1979: "I encouraged the Chinese to support Pol Pot. I encouraged the Thai to help the [Khmer Rouge]. The question was how to help the Cambodian people.[sic] Pol Pot was an abomination. We could never support him. But China could."
In November 1980, Ray Cline, former Deputy Director of the CIA, visited a Khmer Rouge enclave inside Cambodia in his capacity as senior foreign-policy adviser to President-elect Ronald Reagan. A Khmer Rouge press release said that Cline "was warmly greeted by thousands of villagers." The Reagan administration was apparently preparing to continue the policy of opposition to the Vietnamese-supported Phnom Penh government.
Some of the relief organizations operating in Cambodia considered supporting the Khmer Rouge guerrillas inconsistent with their humanitarian goals, in addition to the fact that distributing aid to military personnel was impermissible for such organizations as UNICEF and the International Committee of the Red Cross. But as two American relief aid workers, Linda Mason and Roger Brown, later wrote: "Thailand, the country that hosted the relief operation, and the U.S. government, which funded the bulk of the relief operation, insisted that the Khmer Rouge be fed."
In the 1979-81 period, the World Food Program, which was strongly under US influence, gave almost $12 million in food to the Thai Army to distribute to predominantly Khmer Rouge camps by the border.
In 1982, trying to remove the smell from the Khmer Rouge, the United States put together a coalition composed of the Khmer Rouge and two "non-communist" groups also opposed to the Cambodian government, one headed by former Cambodian ruler, Prince Sihanouk.
The coalition became the recipient of much aid from the US and China, mainly funneled through Thailand. The American aid, by the late 1980s, reached $5 million officially, with the CIA providing between $20 and $24 million behind Congress's back. The aid was usually referred to as "non-lethal" or "humanitarian", but any aid freed up other money to purchase military equipment in the world's arms markets. Officially, Washington was not providing any of this aid to the Khmer Rouge, but it knew full well that Pol Pot's forces were likely to be the ultimate beneficiaries. As one US official put it: "Of course, if the coalition wins, the Khmer Rouge will eat the others alive". In any event, the CIA and the Chinese were supplying arms directly as well to the Khmer Rouge.
From 1985 on, there was a Federal law prohibiting the government from providing any money to Cambodia which would have the effect of helping the Khmer Rouge's fighting capacity, either directly or indirectly. After reports appeared in 1990 that aid to the coalition was getting into the hands of the Khmer Rouge, the Bush administration announced an official halt to the program. Whether this was a serious effort to comply with the law, or simply an effort at damage control is not known; nor is it clear how long the halt lasted, if indeed it had been halted at all. The following February, the administration acknowledged to Congress that there may have been "tactical military cooperation" between US-backed non-communist forces and the Khmer Rouge.
The Khmer Rouge were meanwhile using this aid to regularly attack Cambodian villages, seed minefields, kill peasants and make off with their rice and cattle. But they never seriously threatened the Phnom Penh government.
The United States also successfully defended the right of the Khmer Rouge to the United Nations' Cambodian seat, although their government had ceased to exist in January 1979. They held the seat until 1993. Beginning in 1982, the seat ostensibly represented the coalition, but the chief UN representative, Thiounn Prasith, was a leading apologist for Pol Pot's horrendous crimes and played a major role in their cover up.
When asked by Newsweek about reports that a million Cambodians had perished under Pol Pot's rule, he said: "We estimate between 10,000 and 20,000 persons were killed, 80 per cent of them by Vietnamese agents who infiltrated our government."
During the late 1980s and the early 1990s, the United States pressed for the dismantling of the Cambodian government and the inclusion of the Khmer Rouge in an interim government and in elections, despite still-lingering revulsion against Pol Pot and his followers amongst the Cambodian people and the international community, and despite the fact that the Vietnamese withdrew virtually all their forces from Cambodia in September 1989.

"The death of Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot has again brought to international attention one of the most tragic chapters of inhumanity in the twentieth century-senior Khmer Rouge, who exercised leadership from 1975 to 1979, are still at large and share responsibility for the monstrous human rights abuses committed during this period. We must not permit the death of the most notorious of the Khmer Rouge leaders to deter us from the equally important task of bringing these others to justice."
President William Clinton, April 16, 1998
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
848
113
70
Saint John, N.B.
RE: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Thanks for that, Juan.

I have to say I am shocked to the core. Absolutely unbelievable.

The Yanks do suffer from serious tunnel vision in some cases, that is for sure. Their only defense is that they were NOT supporting Pol Pot during the massacres, but that is an exceptionally slim defense, considering what he was guilty of, and what he would have done had he regained power.

China still bears the brunt of the blame, but that certainly does not excuse American bull-headedness, stupidity, and complete lack of moral fibre in this case.
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
0
16
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

The body of theoretical work that the Khmer Rouge used as a rationale for emptying the cites was written by Andre Gunder Frank while he was teaching in Canada in the late sixties. There were plenty of academics in Canada financed by Canadian tax dollars who were fully supportive of the Khmer Rouge when the genocide was occurring. The far left in the west was either supportive or silent.

None of this detracts from what the US was doing of course.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Re: RE: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V gov

Colpy said:
Thanks for that, Juan.

I have to say I am shocked to the core. Absolutely unbelievable.

The Yanks do suffer from serious tunnel vision in some cases, that is for sure. Their only defense is that they were NOT supporting Pol Pot during the massacres, but that is an exceptionally slim defense, considering what he was guilty of, and what he would have done had he regained power.

China still bears the brunt of the blame, but that certainly does not excuse American bull-headedness, stupidity, and complete lack of moral fibre in this case.

Agreed.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Re: Mass Grave found in Vietnam from U.S-backed S. V governm

Colpy

I have to admit that I had just read that article a week or so ago. I knew Pol Pot was a bastard in the first degree but I had no idea the Americans gave him such overt support. I can't understand how that government got away with helping Pot, but Clinton couldn't get away with getting a B.J. n the oval office. :wink: On the other hand, he did get away with it. :p :p