Liberals, Conservatives Virtually Tied in Canada

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Liberals, Conservativ

I don't think an elected senate is a good idea at all. It leads to deadlocks as often as not and completely unrelated riders end up being attached to bills in both houses as part of the horse-trading that results. It is also inherently undemocratic because it does not follow the one person/one vote ideal of democracy. The cost of elections is also a huge factor. By increasing the number of elections you encourage more involvement by special interests with cash while inducing voter-donation fatigue.

I'd like to see a Senate where the H of C votes for candidates the provinces put forth...say three candidates for each seat. Have them do it in the summer when the House isn't usually sitting. Give all of the provinces and territories an equal number of seats, give the Senate more power, but not enough to kill legislation. If a province wants to run an election to select candidates, let them but it comes out of their pockets, not the national purse.

Failing that, just abolish the damned thing and be done with it. That's likely what will happen eventually anyway.

I used to be against set election dates as well, because they tend to induce a kind of permanent election campaign. We already have a permanent campaign though, so we might as well make it official.

I'd say one election every five years with some form proportional representation and then worry about the Senate though.

 

[no1important]

RE: Liberals, Conservativ

Ipso has it 34- 28 for libs.

I think though with the way seats are distributed libs will lose 5 in Quebec and maybe 2 or 3 in BC. But they could pick up more if the cons lose too many in Ontario.

The Ndp should pick up a few in Ontario and BC as well. My riding will be tight between Liberal and NDP candidate as Grewal is a dead horse. Hopefully his wife will lose as well. Cadmans old riding is a toss up between NDP, LIBs and if his daughter runs as independant.

It seems the closer we get to the actual voting day the libs tend to go up a bit when people actually have to cast a ballot. They hold their noses and vote Liberal. I wish those people would have the courage to vote NDP though.

Do you think Rev, that the Conservatives will hold all the Ontario seats they won last time? I think they will lose 5 and maybe even up to 12 but more would not surprise me either.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Liberals, Conservativ

Good to see a new face, Flower. The first thing you need to know about Canadian politics is that it is much more complicated than US politics. Not only do we have more parties, but there are factions within those those parties.

Oh yes, that much I knew already. We do get some factioning in our own parties, but it's mostly minor. I actually prefer a system that has more than two parties with enough oomph to actually influence the picture... we're pretty much locked into what looks like a permanent 2-party system here and quite frankly, those two parties become more and more similar in many areas as time goes on. Not a good situation to have.

We've also got things like Question Period and press scrums. Very few of your politicians could get through either without breaking down in tears.

I've never seen Canada's Question Period, but I occasionally watch Britain's, as they run it weekly on C-SPAN here in the States. I truly love the idea of that, as it gives the ordinary person a bit of a look into what is going on. Naturally, our overly-scripted, "treat everything as sound-bite fodder" government would never go for that. Ugh. I don't know whether they'd be more likely to break down in tears or in uncontrollable invective, though. Our current President would probably become (more) unintelligible and just decide to have everyone carted off by the Secret Service.

Imagine Bush and his cabinet facing a barrage of questions from the Democrats every day as part of their official duties.

*big grin*

Now imagine them doing that, having a bad day, and then having to face 30 or 40 reporters yelling questions at them as they leave.

*even BIGGER grin*

If they sneak out the back, they get written up as cowards who are trying to hide something.

heheh... those of us who are not Republicans already figure them for cowards, but confirmation's always nice.

That's the everyday reality of Canadian politics.

Beats the heck out of what we've got, that's for sure.

For the record, I'm independent... not a member of any political party. Can't stand the Repubs, like the Democrats more but don't trust either one. Frankly, none of our various "alternative" parties here really float my boat, either. Politicalcompass.org pegs me as a "left libertarian" and there doesn't seem to be much real estate on the U.S. political landscape for us. :?

Cheers,
Summer

 

[Reverend Blair]

I think though with the way seats are distributed libs will lose 5 in Quebec and maybe 2 or 3 in BC. But they could pick up more if the cons lose too many in Ontario.

Every seat projection I've seen show the the Liberals losing a lot, the CPC losing a little, and the NDP and BQ picking up seats. The trend there is that the Liberals lose less with every poll and the CPC lose more. The NDP are doing really well in the projections, doubling their vote in some, because the anti-Harper vote that elects Liberals (and a fair number of Harperites) never shows up in the polls...it's always a last minute rush.

If I had to place a bet on final seat counts this morning, it would be BQ 65, NDP 30, CPC 95, and the rest going to the Liberals. I'm tempted to give the BQ a couple more and take another 5 away from the Conservatives, but I won't. Those numbers likely will have changed by the time time Parliament rises later today though. An election call always changes things.

Do you think Rev, that the Conservatives will hold all the Ontario seats they won last time? I think they will lose 5 and maybe even up to 12 but more would not surprise me either.

I think they'll lose some they hold in Ontario, lose a few on the Prairies and in BC, pick up two in Alberta, and get some Ontario ridings they don't presently hold. They will have fewer seats coming out of this election than going in.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I've never seen Canada's Question Period, but I occasionally watch Britain's, as they run it weekly on C-SPAN here in the States.

Britain's politicians tend to be a little more cutting with their remarks, but it's the same basic thing.

Naturally, our overly-scripted, "treat everything as sound-bite fodder" government would never go for that. Ugh. I don't know whether they'd be more likely to break down in tears or in uncontrollable invective, though.

We have rules about that. One of our Prime Ministers actually had to claim that he said "fuddle duddle" once because he muttered the f-word under his breath. :lol:

For the record, I'm independent... not a member of any political party.

That's another difference. Here you don't have to name an allegiance when you register to vote. Some of us belong to parties and some people vote the same every time, but nobody asks when you register.

. Can't stand the Repubs, like the Democrats more but don't trust either one. Frankly, none of our various "alternative" parties here really float my boat, either.

I've always liked Nader for president even though he got the dangerous convertibles I love so much made into dreck-mobiles. I think Chomsky should run at least once. I think the most disgusted I've ever been with your political process was the debate where Bush and Gore were dressed like twins and kept saying, "I agree with my opponent." What the hell was that all about?

Politicalcompass.org pegs me as a "left libertarian" and there doesn't seem to be much real estate on the U.S. political landscape for us.

That would have you voting NDP or CAP up here, most likely. We have a thread around here someplace where everybody posted their Political Compass scores, by the way.

 

[Summer]

That's another difference. Here you don't have to name an allegiance when you register to vote. Some of us belong to parties and some people vote the same every time, but nobody asks when you register.

Actually, that's not a difference, because it's the same way here. The only time it matters is if you want to vote in a primary election, because each party runs its own primary and these are limited solely to members of that particular party. But you don't have to declare a party allegiance in order to register as a voter - if that were the case, independents such as myself would never vote, and I definitely vote.

I've always liked Nader for president even though he got the dangerous convertibles I love so much made into dreck-mobiles.

Heh. There are things I like about Nader and things I dislike. He's widely regarded as a bit of a loose cannon, but no one can deny that - for good or ill - he's influenced elections.

I think Chomsky should run at least once.

Good grief, that WOULD be interesting to watch.

I think the most disgusted I've ever been with your political process was the debate where Bush and Gore were dressed like twins and kept saying, "I agree with my opponent." What the hell was that all about?

I wish that was the most disgusted I were, but then again I've had to live with the results of the process (sigh). Frankly that debate was ridiculous. Of course, even more distasteful though for different reasons were the debates between Bush and Kerry in the 2004 campaign. They were a sham for the most part.

That would have you voting NDP or CAP up here, most likely. We have a thread around here someplace where everybody posted their Political Compass scores, by the way.

I think I ran across that thread the other day, right before the server here appeared to seize up. I'll have to find it again and take another look. I've been sort of trying to figure out which Canadian party I'm most in line with philosophically.

 

[no1important]

That Norman Specter the former Mulroney aid, actually said on radio that Liberals have been good to BC. Strange that he would say that.

 

[unclepercy]

OK, I am trying to do some reading on Canadian politics, and I don't understand this term: Toronto-Montreal-Bombardier politics.

What is that?

I saw it here:

http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=10437

Uncle

 

[Reverend Blair]

Okay, first a caution about the Brandon Sun...it isn't a newspaper so much as a tool for political harrassment. It's like the Fox of small-town prairie newspapers. The story you referenced came off the CP wire though, so it's valid.

"Toronto-Montreal-Bombardier politics" isn't an actual political term, but it is a political situation. Bombardier is in Quebec. It's basically an aerospace company that started out making snowmobiles. It's a major employer though, and has a lot of political clout. Traditionally our government subsidises Bombardier both directly, which pisses the Brazilians off because they do the same thing, and through giving Bombardier every government contract that comes along.

Aerospace companies in Toronto (and Winnipeg for that matter), that are mostly foreign-owned, get pissed off because they miss out on the juicy government contracts.

That leaves the feds (and this happens with both Conservative and Liberal governments) trying to do a balancing act when contracts are being talked about around election time.

It's basically our version of pork-barreling, but the Quebec situation has made it a lot more volatile.

 

[Nascar_James]

If you notice Rev, Bombardier is based in Montreal and the Federal Transport minister is Jean LaPierre, a Separatist. It's only normal that he plays favorites with a Quebec based company. Once a Separatist, always a Separatist ... you know it's true, so don't deny it. What was the federal aid for Bombardier? Almost $1 billion, right?

The Brazlians do indeed subsidize Embraer, their Business Jet equivalent of Bombardier. They do it fair and square, no separatists there. Kidnappers yes, but no separatists.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Liberals, Conservativ

Drop the crap, James. You know damned well that the Conservatives fed just as much money to Bombardier as the Liberals have.

You also know that LaPierre is a sitting member of the Liberal Party and that there are few politicians in Quebec who haven't flirted with the PQ over the years.

You're a very bitter little man, James.

 

[Jay]

:lol: :lol:

 

[neocon-hunter]

:lol: