Let's Talk About Israel
- Thread starter Paranoid Dot Calm
- Start date
Well, I see that close to happening but not completely because of the Wall Israel is building. Israel has withdrawn from the Gaza Strip and once the Wall is completed, The West Bank should be about 95 percent of its 1967 size.
Hi! JimMoyer
Why does Israel continue to occupy Palesinians? Under what international law?
Why does Israel continue building the barrier which is against International law?
Israel was recognized in 1948 under International Law. Why should anybody continue to support Israeli's right to exist under International Law if Israel continues to defy International Laws?
Calm
Why does Israel continue to occupy Palesinians? Under what international law?
Why does Israel continue building the barrier which is against International law?
Israel was recognized in 1948 under International Law. Why should anybody continue to support Israeli's right to exist under International Law if Israel continues to defy International Laws?
Calm
The Wall is being built to reduce suicide homiciders.
And so far it has been quite effective at reducing the number of incidents.
Israel will withdraw from the West Bank once the wall is complete and the Palestinian Authority can control their own people.
And why did Jordan not give the Palestinians autonomy of the West Bank when they controlled it from 1948 to 1967 ?
And why did the Arab world NOT use most of its oil dollars to invest in the creation of jobs on the West Bank, not only during 1948 to 1967 but thereafter as well ? Instead a lot of that investment went to hate schools and financing violence.
And so far it has been quite effective at reducing the number of incidents.
Israel will withdraw from the West Bank once the wall is complete and the Palestinian Authority can control their own people.
And why did Jordan not give the Palestinians autonomy of the West Bank when they controlled it from 1948 to 1967 ?
And why did the Arab world NOT use most of its oil dollars to invest in the creation of jobs on the West Bank, not only during 1948 to 1967 but thereafter as well ? Instead a lot of that investment went to hate schools and financing violence.
Wait a minute. I did respond to some of your questions.
And in a sense I already answered the 1967 border question. It depends on finishing the Wall and the Palestinian Authority being strong enough to rule its own people. Despite the convoluted twisted history of the area and despite who is right or wrong, both groups will have to compromise or the war continues.
Your turn to respond to the two questions I asked you in my previous post.
And in a sense I already answered the 1967 border question. It depends on finishing the Wall and the Palestinian Authority being strong enough to rule its own people. Despite the convoluted twisted history of the area and despite who is right or wrong, both groups will have to compromise or the war continues.
Your turn to respond to the two questions I asked you in my previous post.
RE: Let's Talk About Isra
If Israel plays fair Jim, There will be no need for a wall. The Pals will have their country according to international law and the suicide bombers will have to stop.
Suicide bombers are reacting to the unfairness that the Zionists are dumbing on them. Give them back their rights and they will settle down.
If Israel plays fair Jim, There will be no need for a wall. The Pals will have their country according to international law and the suicide bombers will have to stop.
Suicide bombers are reacting to the unfairness that the Zionists are dumbing on them. Give them back their rights and they will settle down.
Were it that simple, Moghrabi, I think everyone would go for that kind of peace, but it ain't guarranteed by either side, is it ?
So, in the meantime, The Wall stops a lot of suicide bombers, but the Israelis are redefining part of the West Bank too, taking some 5 percent of the land because of the "settlers."
Moghrabi? There's that 1948 war where no sources ever discuss both the Israeli and Arab sides in the same article.
Each source of info I look at in that war is often very one-sided and excludes the charges of the other side.
I think the first damage of course was creating the state of Israel. But I'm interested in both sides of that 1948 war after the state of Israel was created.
There's an article in CounterPunch explaining the American mindset in a very fair way, despite its criticism of the American view.
http://www.counterpunch.org/kchristison0715.html
Tell me what you think of it.
So, in the meantime, The Wall stops a lot of suicide bombers, but the Israelis are redefining part of the West Bank too, taking some 5 percent of the land because of the "settlers."
Moghrabi? There's that 1948 war where no sources ever discuss both the Israeli and Arab sides in the same article.
Each source of info I look at in that war is often very one-sided and excludes the charges of the other side.
I think the first damage of course was creating the state of Israel. But I'm interested in both sides of that 1948 war after the state of Israel was created.
There's an article in CounterPunch explaining the American mindset in a very fair way, despite its criticism of the American view.
http://www.counterpunch.org/kchristison0715.html
Tell me what you think of it.
The Laws Against Non-Jews
Jewish History, Jewish Religion - The Weight of Three Thousand Years
By Professor Israel Shahak
1994
Chapter 5
The Laws Against Non-Jews
http://www.ety.com/HRP/racehate/shahak5.htm
Jewish History, Jewish Religion - The Weight of Three Thousand Years
By Professor Israel Shahak
1994
Chapter 5
The Laws Against Non-Jews
http://www.ety.com/HRP/racehate/shahak5.htm
This is why we only hear the Israeli side within the media:
And remember .... Jewish folks only represent less then 2% of the American population.
To say that Israel is a trusted ally is the most absurd illusion that exists in the American political culture.
This is the “Big Lie”, an invention of Israeli subversion, which is the cause of an insane American foreign policy.
Israeli zealots control almost every aspect of political power in the United States. An American holocaust that stares American's directly in the face and which stems from a sick and fraudulent form of propaganda. A phony guilt deceit that only benefits Israel.
Jews imagine they are descendents of the Israelites, irrationally persecuted, a morally superior People and a beacon for humanity.
In fact, I strongly suspect they are dangerously out of touch with their own reality.
"For many years I have felt that the situation in the Middle East was very nearly hopeless. The fundamental problem for us is that we have lost our freedom of action in the Middle East and are committed to policies that promote neither our own national interest nor the cause of peace. AIPAC (the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) and its allied organizations have effective working control of the electoral process. They can elect or defeat nearly any congressman or senator that they wish, with their money and coordinated organization"
--Senator William Fulbright--
Jews In The Media 4.3.3
By Jeffrey Blankfort
April 2003
MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN, owner of NY Daily News, US News & World Report and chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish American Organizations, one of the largest pro-Israel lobbying groups.
LESLIE MOONVES, president of CBS television, great-nephew of David Ben-Gurion, and co-chair with Norman Ornstein of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
JONATHAN MILLER, chair and CEO of AOL division of AOL-Time-Warner
NEIL SHAPIRO, president of NBC News
JEFF GASPIN, Executive Vice-President, Programming, NBC
DAVID WESTIN, president of ABC News
SUMNER REDSTONE, CEO of Viacom, "world's biggest media giant" (Economist, 11/23/2) owns Viacom cable, CBS and MTVs all over the world, Blockbuster video rentals and Black Entertainment TV.
MICHAEL EISNER, major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC.
RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the World (Jewish mother)
MEL KARMAZIN, president of CBS
DON HEWITT, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes, CBS
JEFF FAGER, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes II. CBS
DAVID POLTRACK, Executive Vice-President, Research and Planning, CBS
SANDY KRUSHOW, Chair, Fox Entertainment
LLOYD BRAUN, Chair, ABC Entertainment
BARRY MEYER, chair, Warner Bros.
SHERRY LANSING. President of Paramount Communications and Chairman of Paramount Pictures' Motion Picture Group.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, CEO. Miramax Films.
BRAD SIEGEL., President, Turner Entertainment.
PETER CHERNIN, second in-command at Rupert Murdoch's News. Corp., owner of Fox TV
MARTY PERETZ, owner and publisher of the New Republic, which openly identifies itself as pro-Israel. Al Gore credits Marty with being his "mentor."
ARTHUR O. SULZBERGER, JR., publisher of the NY Times, the Boston Globe and other publications.
WILLIAM SAFIRE, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
TOM FRIEDMAN, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. Honored by Honest Reporting.com, website monitoring "anti-Israel media."
RICHARD COHEN, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post
JEFF JACOBY, syndicated columnist for the Boston Globe
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, American Enterprise Inst., regular columnist for USA Today, news analyst for CBS, and co-chair with Leslie Moonves of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
ARIE FLEISCHER, Dubya's press secretary.
STEPHEN EMERSON, every media outlet's first choice as an expert on domestic terrorism.
DAVID SCHNEIDERMAN, owner of the Village Voice and the New Times network of "alternative weeklies."
DENNIS LEIBOWITZ, head of Act II Partners, a media hedge fund
KENNETH POLLACK, for CIA analysts, director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy, writes op-eds in NY Times, New Yorker
BARRY DILLER, chair of USA Interactive, former owner of Universal Entertainment
KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch
RICHARD LEIBNER, runs the N.S. Bienstock talent agency, which represents 600 news personalities such as Dan Rather, Dianne Sawyer and Bill O'Reilly.
TERRY SEMEL, CEO, Yahoo, former chair, Warner Bros.
MARK GOLIN, VP and Creative Director, AOL
WARREN LIEBERFORD, Pres., Warner Bros. Home Video Div. of AOL- TimeWarner
JEFFREY ZUCKER, President of NBC Entertainment
JACK MYERS, NBC, chief….NYT 5.14.2
SANDY GRUSHOW, chair of Fox Entertainment
GAIL BERMAN, president of Fox Entertainment
STEPHEN SPIELBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
JEFFREY KATZENBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
DAVID GEFFEN, co-owner of Dreamworks
LLYOD BRAUN, chair of ABC Entertainment
JORDAN LEVIN, president of Warner Bros. Entertainment
MAX MUTCHNICK, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
DAVID KOHAN, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
HOWARD STRINGER, chief of Sony Corp. of America
AMY PASCAL, chair of Columbia Pictures
JOEL KLEIN, chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations
ROBERT SILLERMAN, founder of Clear Channel Communications
BRIAN GRADEN, president of MTV entertainment
IVAN SEIDENBERG, CEO of Verizon Communications
WOLF BLITZER, host of CNN's Late Edition
LARRY KING, host of Larry King Live
TED KOPPEL, host of ABC's Nightline
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN Reporter
PAULA ZAHN, CNN Host
MIKE WALLACE, Host of CBS, 60 Minutes
BARBARA WALTERS, Host, ABC's 20-20
MICHAEL LEDEEN, editor of National Review
BRUCE NUSSBAUM, editorial page editor, Business Week
DONALD GRAHAM, Chair and CEO of Newsweek and Washington Post, son of
CATHERINE GRAHAM MEYER, former owner of the Washington Post
HOWARD FINEMAN, Chief Political Columnist, Newsweek
WILLIAM KRISTOL, Editor, Weekly Standard, Exec. Director Project for a New American Century
RON ROSENTHAL, Managing Editor, San Francisco Chronicle
PHIL BRONSTEIN, Executive Editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
RON OWENS, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
JOHN ROTHMAN, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
MICHAEL SAVAGE, Talk Show Host, KFSO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) Syndicated in 100 markets
MICHAEL MEDVED, Talk Show Host, on 124 AM stations
DENNIS PRAGER, Talk Show Host, nationally syndicated from LA. Has Israeli flag on his home page.
BEN WATTENBERG, Moderator, PBS Think Tank.
ANDREW LACK, president of NBC
DANIEL MENAKER, Executive Director, Harper Collins
DAVID REZNIK, Editor, The New Yorker
NICHOLAS LEHMANN, writer, the New York
HENRICK HERTZBERG, Talk of the Town editor, The New Yorker
SAMUEL NEWHOUSE JR, and DONALD NEWHOUSE own Newhouse Publications, includes 26 newspapers in 22 cities; the Conde Nast magazine group, includes The New Yorker; Parade, the Sunday newspaper supplement; American City Business Journals, business newspapers published in more than 30 major cities in America; and interests in cable television programming and cable systems serving 1 million homes.
DONALD NEWHOUSE, chairman of the board of directors, Associated Press.
PETER R KANN, CEO, Wall Street Journal, Barron's
RALPH J. & BRIAN ROBERTS, Owners, Comcast-ATT Cable TV.
LAWRENCE KIRSHBAUM, CEO, AOL-Time Warner Book Group
http://desip.igc.org/ConvergingAgendas.html
And remember .... Jewish folks only represent less then 2% of the American population.
To say that Israel is a trusted ally is the most absurd illusion that exists in the American political culture.
This is the “Big Lie”, an invention of Israeli subversion, which is the cause of an insane American foreign policy.
Israeli zealots control almost every aspect of political power in the United States. An American holocaust that stares American's directly in the face and which stems from a sick and fraudulent form of propaganda. A phony guilt deceit that only benefits Israel.
Jews imagine they are descendents of the Israelites, irrationally persecuted, a morally superior People and a beacon for humanity.
In fact, I strongly suspect they are dangerously out of touch with their own reality.
"For many years I have felt that the situation in the Middle East was very nearly hopeless. The fundamental problem for us is that we have lost our freedom of action in the Middle East and are committed to policies that promote neither our own national interest nor the cause of peace. AIPAC (the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee) and its allied organizations have effective working control of the electoral process. They can elect or defeat nearly any congressman or senator that they wish, with their money and coordinated organization"
--Senator William Fulbright--
Jews In The Media 4.3.3
By Jeffrey Blankfort
April 2003
MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN, owner of NY Daily News, US News & World Report and chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish American Organizations, one of the largest pro-Israel lobbying groups.
LESLIE MOONVES, president of CBS television, great-nephew of David Ben-Gurion, and co-chair with Norman Ornstein of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
JONATHAN MILLER, chair and CEO of AOL division of AOL-Time-Warner
NEIL SHAPIRO, president of NBC News
JEFF GASPIN, Executive Vice-President, Programming, NBC
DAVID WESTIN, president of ABC News
SUMNER REDSTONE, CEO of Viacom, "world's biggest media giant" (Economist, 11/23/2) owns Viacom cable, CBS and MTVs all over the world, Blockbuster video rentals and Black Entertainment TV.
MICHAEL EISNER, major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC.
RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the World (Jewish mother)
MEL KARMAZIN, president of CBS
DON HEWITT, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes, CBS
JEFF FAGER, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes II. CBS
DAVID POLTRACK, Executive Vice-President, Research and Planning, CBS
SANDY KRUSHOW, Chair, Fox Entertainment
LLOYD BRAUN, Chair, ABC Entertainment
BARRY MEYER, chair, Warner Bros.
SHERRY LANSING. President of Paramount Communications and Chairman of Paramount Pictures' Motion Picture Group.
HARVEY WEINSTEIN, CEO. Miramax Films.
BRAD SIEGEL., President, Turner Entertainment.
PETER CHERNIN, second in-command at Rupert Murdoch's News. Corp., owner of Fox TV
MARTY PERETZ, owner and publisher of the New Republic, which openly identifies itself as pro-Israel. Al Gore credits Marty with being his "mentor."
ARTHUR O. SULZBERGER, JR., publisher of the NY Times, the Boston Globe and other publications.
WILLIAM SAFIRE, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
TOM FRIEDMAN, syndicated columnist for the NYT.
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. Honored by Honest Reporting.com, website monitoring "anti-Israel media."
RICHARD COHEN, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post
JEFF JACOBY, syndicated columnist for the Boston Globe
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, American Enterprise Inst., regular columnist for USA Today, news analyst for CBS, and co-chair with Leslie Moonves of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton.
ARIE FLEISCHER, Dubya's press secretary.
STEPHEN EMERSON, every media outlet's first choice as an expert on domestic terrorism.
DAVID SCHNEIDERMAN, owner of the Village Voice and the New Times network of "alternative weeklies."
DENNIS LEIBOWITZ, head of Act II Partners, a media hedge fund
KENNETH POLLACK, for CIA analysts, director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy, writes op-eds in NY Times, New Yorker
BARRY DILLER, chair of USA Interactive, former owner of Universal Entertainment
KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch
RICHARD LEIBNER, runs the N.S. Bienstock talent agency, which represents 600 news personalities such as Dan Rather, Dianne Sawyer and Bill O'Reilly.
TERRY SEMEL, CEO, Yahoo, former chair, Warner Bros.
MARK GOLIN, VP and Creative Director, AOL
WARREN LIEBERFORD, Pres., Warner Bros. Home Video Div. of AOL- TimeWarner
JEFFREY ZUCKER, President of NBC Entertainment
JACK MYERS, NBC, chief….NYT 5.14.2
SANDY GRUSHOW, chair of Fox Entertainment
GAIL BERMAN, president of Fox Entertainment
STEPHEN SPIELBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
JEFFREY KATZENBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks
DAVID GEFFEN, co-owner of Dreamworks
LLYOD BRAUN, chair of ABC Entertainment
JORDAN LEVIN, president of Warner Bros. Entertainment
MAX MUTCHNICK, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
DAVID KOHAN, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami"
HOWARD STRINGER, chief of Sony Corp. of America
AMY PASCAL, chair of Columbia Pictures
JOEL KLEIN, chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations
ROBERT SILLERMAN, founder of Clear Channel Communications
BRIAN GRADEN, president of MTV entertainment
IVAN SEIDENBERG, CEO of Verizon Communications
WOLF BLITZER, host of CNN's Late Edition
LARRY KING, host of Larry King Live
TED KOPPEL, host of ABC's Nightline
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN Reporter
PAULA ZAHN, CNN Host
MIKE WALLACE, Host of CBS, 60 Minutes
BARBARA WALTERS, Host, ABC's 20-20
MICHAEL LEDEEN, editor of National Review
BRUCE NUSSBAUM, editorial page editor, Business Week
DONALD GRAHAM, Chair and CEO of Newsweek and Washington Post, son of
CATHERINE GRAHAM MEYER, former owner of the Washington Post
HOWARD FINEMAN, Chief Political Columnist, Newsweek
WILLIAM KRISTOL, Editor, Weekly Standard, Exec. Director Project for a New American Century
RON ROSENTHAL, Managing Editor, San Francisco Chronicle
PHIL BRONSTEIN, Executive Editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
RON OWENS, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
JOHN ROTHMAN, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco)
MICHAEL SAVAGE, Talk Show Host, KFSO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) Syndicated in 100 markets
MICHAEL MEDVED, Talk Show Host, on 124 AM stations
DENNIS PRAGER, Talk Show Host, nationally syndicated from LA. Has Israeli flag on his home page.
BEN WATTENBERG, Moderator, PBS Think Tank.
ANDREW LACK, president of NBC
DANIEL MENAKER, Executive Director, Harper Collins
DAVID REZNIK, Editor, The New Yorker
NICHOLAS LEHMANN, writer, the New York
HENRICK HERTZBERG, Talk of the Town editor, The New Yorker
SAMUEL NEWHOUSE JR, and DONALD NEWHOUSE own Newhouse Publications, includes 26 newspapers in 22 cities; the Conde Nast magazine group, includes The New Yorker; Parade, the Sunday newspaper supplement; American City Business Journals, business newspapers published in more than 30 major cities in America; and interests in cable television programming and cable systems serving 1 million homes.
DONALD NEWHOUSE, chairman of the board of directors, Associated Press.
PETER R KANN, CEO, Wall Street Journal, Barron's
RALPH J. & BRIAN ROBERTS, Owners, Comcast-ATT Cable TV.
LAWRENCE KIRSHBAUM, CEO, AOL-Time Warner Book Group
http://desip.igc.org/ConvergingAgendas.html
RE: Let's Talk About Isra
Thanks Paranoid. A wealth of info about the Zionists and their rules of murder and killing.
Jim. Let me read the article and I'll respond to it. But you said it first: "I think the first damage of course was creating the state of Israel".
Thanks Paranoid. A wealth of info about the Zionists and their rules of murder and killing.
Jim. Let me read the article and I'll respond to it. But you said it first: "I think the first damage of course was creating the state of Israel".
1. Thanks Moghrabi. Give it a read. Tell me what you think.
I think it quite accurately describes the American ignorance on the matter and explains how that happened but it doesn't excuse it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/kchristison0715.html
2. Also, have you found any source that details the sins of both sides in that 1948 war ? Every source I read, details the sin of the other but leaves out its own. It's hard to sort that bias out.
3. What is your take on the lack of Arab investment and creation of jobs and autonomy for the Palestinians when Jordan controlled the West Bank from 1948 to 1967 ?
4. The other issues we can discuss later so it doesn't just become a useless slugfest making us no different from anybody else.
I think it quite accurately describes the American ignorance on the matter and explains how that happened but it doesn't excuse it.
http://www.counterpunch.org/kchristison0715.html
2. Also, have you found any source that details the sins of both sides in that 1948 war ? Every source I read, details the sin of the other but leaves out its own. It's hard to sort that bias out.
3. What is your take on the lack of Arab investment and creation of jobs and autonomy for the Palestinians when Jordan controlled the West Bank from 1948 to 1967 ?
4. The other issues we can discuss later so it doesn't just become a useless slugfest making us no different from anybody else.
Hi! JimMoyer
I would think that the reason the arabs are not standing up to the plate when it comes to the Palestinian's, is because it's considered a "Christian" problem or a "tribal" problem. The same thing could be said about South Africa or why countries surrounding Zimbabwae aren't stepping up to the plate.
The Jews are not a People or a nationality, they are a "religion". When you look at Israeli society, and see how poorly any Arab lives compared to Jewish folks ..... howcome the Jewish society does not step up to the plate and intercede or solve the inequities and racism within their own country? For the same reason .... they are not "Jewish".
The Palestinians suggested a "One State Solution" but the Jewish folks would lose thier demographics. Even today, Israeli society is buying out every bit of land any Palestinian owns in every attempt to disgorge Israel proper of anybody who is not Jewish.
In the middle east, Jewish folks treat Arabs the same way we treated our native indians and view Arabs the same way we Canadians viewed Pakistani's in the 60's or the Chinese in the late 1800s or early 1900's.
I already pointed out the fact in another post that Israel itself admits that the mideast war was fought for water rights of the Jordan River. It was not that the Arabs attacked Israel but rather Israel raised the tensions so high that it sort of forced the Arabs into pre-emption.
I also pointed out that it was for water that Israel invaded Lebanon. Hezbolah and The Clowns were damning or redirecting water in their mountain streams.
What is Jordan? It's a nobody on the world stage. It is in the same boat that Israel is in. Jordan has no natural resources. It has no oil.
Saddam gave Jordon all the oil it need for free. The U.S./Britain created the "job" as King and if it were not for all the U.S. dollars, Jordon would be bankrupt and it would be the Palestinian refugees in power because they form such a large part of the Jordan population. Jordon does the U.S. bidding.
The same with Egypt. The U.S. is supplying Mubarak with all the weapons and teargas he needs in order to remain in power.
The U.S. buys the dysfunction in the middle east and actually profits from it. A great place to sell arms and military equipment. Trading Arms for oil.
The Western economies were not built upon free enterprise, but rather free oil.
Calm
I would think that the reason the arabs are not standing up to the plate when it comes to the Palestinian's, is because it's considered a "Christian" problem or a "tribal" problem. The same thing could be said about South Africa or why countries surrounding Zimbabwae aren't stepping up to the plate.
The Jews are not a People or a nationality, they are a "religion". When you look at Israeli society, and see how poorly any Arab lives compared to Jewish folks ..... howcome the Jewish society does not step up to the plate and intercede or solve the inequities and racism within their own country? For the same reason .... they are not "Jewish".
The Palestinians suggested a "One State Solution" but the Jewish folks would lose thier demographics. Even today, Israeli society is buying out every bit of land any Palestinian owns in every attempt to disgorge Israel proper of anybody who is not Jewish.
In the middle east, Jewish folks treat Arabs the same way we treated our native indians and view Arabs the same way we Canadians viewed Pakistani's in the 60's or the Chinese in the late 1800s or early 1900's.
I already pointed out the fact in another post that Israel itself admits that the mideast war was fought for water rights of the Jordan River. It was not that the Arabs attacked Israel but rather Israel raised the tensions so high that it sort of forced the Arabs into pre-emption.
I also pointed out that it was for water that Israel invaded Lebanon. Hezbolah and The Clowns were damning or redirecting water in their mountain streams.
What is Jordan? It's a nobody on the world stage. It is in the same boat that Israel is in. Jordan has no natural resources. It has no oil.
Saddam gave Jordon all the oil it need for free. The U.S./Britain created the "job" as King and if it were not for all the U.S. dollars, Jordon would be bankrupt and it would be the Palestinian refugees in power because they form such a large part of the Jordan population. Jordon does the U.S. bidding.
The same with Egypt. The U.S. is supplying Mubarak with all the weapons and teargas he needs in order to remain in power.
The U.S. buys the dysfunction in the middle east and actually profits from it. A great place to sell arms and military equipment. Trading Arms for oil.
The Western economies were not built upon free enterprise, but rather free oil.
Calm
Well, Paranoid Dot Calm, that is the most balanced fair post mentioning both sides I've ever seen you write on this issue.
A one-state solution was never going to be the solution because the Palestinians will demographically outnumber the Jews. Israel will allow Palestinians to run for parliament their Knesset and Israel does have Palestinian Mayors --- Big deal, small recompense, eh?
But of course no Jew will ever be allowed similar rights in any Arab country and there was strong anti-jewish attitudes well before 1948, back to the Ottoman Empire and back to the crusades when Europeans stank literally compared to clean, well washed Muslims.
Christians are not allowed to build new Churches in Cairo.
And yet the Muslim idea of tolerance has lasted far longer than that of the Christians or Jews, the people of the book as the Muslims say.
And the beauty of a whole city stopping to do prayer five times a day is absolutely fascinating.
The idea that Mohammad married an older woman, a Jewish business woman who loved him madly even when the Arabs ridiculed his dream is an amazing story.
And now we come to a meeting in an immense palace where princes and rich oil Arabs discuss helping their people more.
Unfortunately war has brought to head all the questions, even of the muslim leaders questioning themselves, even of the Muslim Brotherhood and the people questioning their leaders.
And then there's the egotism of American policy not paying attention to what the opposition says, not paying attention to more detail than it does.
Yeah the world little honors the brave Iraqi voter, or the brave one who speaks risking his life, or all the policeman and bus drivers who have died trying to make Iraq a phoenix out of this ill-begotten war, and knowing the status quo of Saddam would NOT have brought any of this change AND that change of what we see now would have been delayed another 10 years. But then American knowlege of all of this is quite limited, anti-septic, impervious to the good arguments against them.
A one-state solution was never going to be the solution because the Palestinians will demographically outnumber the Jews. Israel will allow Palestinians to run for parliament their Knesset and Israel does have Palestinian Mayors --- Big deal, small recompense, eh?
But of course no Jew will ever be allowed similar rights in any Arab country and there was strong anti-jewish attitudes well before 1948, back to the Ottoman Empire and back to the crusades when Europeans stank literally compared to clean, well washed Muslims.
Christians are not allowed to build new Churches in Cairo.
And yet the Muslim idea of tolerance has lasted far longer than that of the Christians or Jews, the people of the book as the Muslims say.
And the beauty of a whole city stopping to do prayer five times a day is absolutely fascinating.
The idea that Mohammad married an older woman, a Jewish business woman who loved him madly even when the Arabs ridiculed his dream is an amazing story.
And now we come to a meeting in an immense palace where princes and rich oil Arabs discuss helping their people more.
Unfortunately war has brought to head all the questions, even of the muslim leaders questioning themselves, even of the Muslim Brotherhood and the people questioning their leaders.
And then there's the egotism of American policy not paying attention to what the opposition says, not paying attention to more detail than it does.
Yeah the world little honors the brave Iraqi voter, or the brave one who speaks risking his life, or all the policeman and bus drivers who have died trying to make Iraq a phoenix out of this ill-begotten war, and knowing the status quo of Saddam would NOT have brought any of this change AND that change of what we see now would have been delayed another 10 years. But then American knowlege of all of this is quite limited, anti-septic, impervious to the good arguments against them.
Hi! JimMoyer
You wrote:
You must sell icecream too. Your trying to sell a nonexistent success.
The Iraqi votes have replied within polls taken that more then 2 thirds want the U.S. to leave. Why not have a referendum about the U.S. leaving? .... Maybe then, the Iraqi People would be heard and not just honored.
Calm
You wrote:
You must sell icecream too. Your trying to sell a nonexistent success.
The Iraqi votes have replied within polls taken that more then 2 thirds want the U.S. to leave. Why not have a referendum about the U.S. leaving? .... Maybe then, the Iraqi People would be heard and not just honored.
Calm
You're no more right than I am. I suspect the Iraqis view things quite differently and more accurately than the both of us.
Let me keep this thread on the Israel-Palestine question and I know it's all related, but it's just a request.
Let me keep this thread on the Israel-Palestine question and I know it's all related, but it's just a request.
Don't wave your purple-dyed finger at me and tell me you believe in democracy, until the 5.3 million Palestinian and 5.2 million Jewish residents of Palestine-Israel have an equal voice in deciding how they will live - together or apart - in the land they share.
Paging Natan Sharansky
March 02, 2005
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2005/03/paging_natan_sh.html
Jewish Demographic State
By Lily Galili
June 28, 2002
http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020628_galili.html
Demographer: Holy Land already has non-Jewish majority
By Haaretz Service
December 09, 2003
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=370067
Privatizing Apartheid in Israel
By Leila Khaled Mouammar
December 08, 2005
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-12/08mouammar.cfm
A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent
By Avraham Burg
August 29, 2003
http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html
Only 8% Of The Israeli Population Lives In 60% Of Israel's Land.
Today, We Can Build A Stronger Israel By Making Blueprint Negev A Reality.
http://www.jnf.org/negev/facts.html
The safe passage: The history of a farce
By Gideon Levy
December 12, 2005
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=656079
The Disappointing Trajectory of Amir Peretz
By Ilan Pappe
December 02, 2005
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v27/n24/papp01_.html
Democratic Party Slams Divestment from Israel
December 05, 2005
http://www.njdc.org/issues/detail.php?id=487
Paging Natan Sharansky
March 02, 2005
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2005/03/paging_natan_sh.html
Jewish Demographic State
By Lily Galili
June 28, 2002
http://www.bintjbeil.com/articles/en/020628_galili.html
Demographer: Holy Land already has non-Jewish majority
By Haaretz Service
December 09, 2003
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=370067
Privatizing Apartheid in Israel
By Leila Khaled Mouammar
December 08, 2005
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-12/08mouammar.cfm
A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent
By Avraham Burg
August 29, 2003
http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html
Only 8% Of The Israeli Population Lives In 60% Of Israel's Land.
Today, We Can Build A Stronger Israel By Making Blueprint Negev A Reality.
http://www.jnf.org/negev/facts.html
The safe passage: The history of a farce
By Gideon Levy
December 12, 2005
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=656079
The Disappointing Trajectory of Amir Peretz
By Ilan Pappe
December 02, 2005
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v27/n24/papp01_.html
Democratic Party Slams Divestment from Israel
December 05, 2005
http://www.njdc.org/issues/detail.php?id=487
You might think your passion about the Palestinians is rational.
But explain to me the lack of it for the Kurds ?
If your passion is rational, it is certainly highly selective and inconsistently excludes passion for others' plight, such as the Kurds and Chechnya and Tibet and the Sinkiang Province in China.
Or those under North Korean rule.
Ya like that night picture of the world ?
But explain to me the lack of it for the Kurds ?
If your passion is rational, it is certainly highly selective and inconsistently excludes passion for others' plight, such as the Kurds and Chechnya and Tibet and the Sinkiang Province in China.
Or those under North Korean rule.
Ya like that night picture of the world ?
Rabbi Goldstein gives a historic overview of Zionism
Rabbi Goldstein gives a historic overview of Zionism
The audio is split in to two segments: the 33 minute lecture followed by 9 minutes of questions and answers
(RealPlayer Presentation)
http://www.inminds.co.uk/ra/rabbi-goldstein-lecture.rm
Or:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1456.htm
Rabbi Goldstein gives a historic overview of Zionism
The audio is split in to two segments: the 33 minute lecture followed by 9 minutes of questions and answers
(RealPlayer Presentation)
http://www.inminds.co.uk/ra/rabbi-goldstein-lecture.rm
Or:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1456.htm
RE: Let's Talk About Isra
As you suggested Jim, let's keep this thread about the Israeli-palestinian conflict. We can discuss the others in a different thread.
I am working on putting together my own opinion regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and I hope it will be balanced.
As you suggested Jim, let's keep this thread about the Israeli-palestinian conflict. We can discuss the others in a different thread.
I am working on putting together my own opinion regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and I hope it will be balanced.