Legal questions on strike - Teachers 'R' Us

Karlin

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
When the law is an ass, we are being "responsible citizens" when we break that law.
Laws are made, they change, and they are meant to serve society and the people, not the government who is merely in charge of making the laws.

As an employer, the Province is going too far using the law to deal with contract issues.

Most employers don't get to use the law to force workers to work without a contract.


Don't I believe in the rule of law?
Not really, not when it is just a tactic to force people to work. People know right from wrong, and if we choose to do good, we are okay. Too often there have been examples of unfair laws that would put good peole in jail.

Tossing teachers in jail for not going back to work "as is in the contract" that was forced on them is the kind of law that does not deserve the full respect of "the rule of law". .

Sounding dictatorial is doing more harm to the rule of law than I am by saying I don't believe in it. Any hint of laws that are not just, or that serve a certain Elite sector of society, kills the respect for the law. Thats what I mean!!!

"everyone has to obey the law, you can't pick the ones you like."
- Gordon Campbell.
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Ya, Ya Gord, that has some merit, but "when the law is an ass"...
There would not be so much support from other workers if the cause was not justifyed. 10,000 other workers went out today in support of the teachers. Thats a lot of workers.

Lets not let then win this one. Teachers R Us.
Karlin
 
mrmom2

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Way to go Karlin .I'm with you how can anyone have any respect for laws passed by totally corrupt goverment is beyond me 8O These guys think there Czars or something .I say feck them .Ihope we have a general strike because they need to be reminded of who they work for us the people not there corrupt asses :wink:
 
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bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
Gordo must be really bad in business if he is afraid to negotiate or even to go to the table. Certainly not the calibre of person I'd want on my team.
 
Karlin

Karlin

Council Member
Jun 27, 2004
1,275
2
38
Re: Lawbreaker Lawmakers

.....but nobody is going to slam me over not obeying "The Rule of Law"?

Gordon Campbell used it again last night and this morning in his press interviews: "teachers have got to obey the rule of law and THEN we will talk". It is just so childish - HE made that law, so it is all bogus, not carrying the weight of "law and order" principles he refers to. Campbell is doing the damage to respecting "the rule of law"/

But I said that before. So here are examples of government doing illegal things. I will use the USA govt., since it is so blatant and examples are in the news daily:

1] investigate torture? End up murdered:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article320111.ece

2]Criminalization of Politics:
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/18/fox-criminalization/

3] Voting Fraud:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

4] Bush's policy:" we don't torture people, but you better not keep us from torturing people, because we do."
http://www.gophypocrites.com/2005/10/hyp05042.html

Those are just from TODAY's news!!!
So what does the USA's illegal actions have to do with BC's Campbell's Rule of Law crusade? Just that hypocracy is rampant, and to show that governments will, have, and DO break the law many ways most days. Campbell is a USA suck-up too, he may soon point out how they handle teacher's contracts in America, as a shining example of how to do things right.

And of course Campbells own breaking of laws. Drunk driving most prominant, but if he did his time, paid the fine, then it is all over with? Or does it indicate hypocracy now, at this time? Does Campbeel really have the moral ground on Rule of Law? Then why does he commit crimes?
What about that drug running done from the Legislature, where those two were caught last year? They paid the fine too, but does it indicate a general lawlessness in the Leg? As long as you pay the fine, or get away with it, it is okay?

On that note, the teachers are to be praised for being open about their illegal intentions, unlike the Legistlature Criminals.
 
S

Senathos

New Member
Sep 9, 2005
29
0
1
Toronto
Re: Lawbreaker Lawmakers

Karlin said:
.Gordon Campbell used it again last night and this morning in his press interviews: "teachers have got to obey the rule of law and THEN we will talk". It is just so childish - HE made that law, so it is all bogus, not carrying the weight of "law and order" principles he refers to. Campbell is doing the damage to respecting "the rule of law".
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He did not make that law, the Legislature did. The Legislature of which the people of BC vote for, and it represents them. The Legislature passed the law, and the teachers are defying the will of the democratic government. I hope Jinny Sims is jailed and the union's funds taken, this is ridiculous. And now there was talk of the TWU getting involved, when they aren't even a public union. Hopefully it gets to the point where the court orders the union decertified.
 
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peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Bullshit! You do not live in this province. You were not in victoria yesterday. 12,000 people on the streets supporting the teachers. The people of this province are behind those teachers.
 
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PoisonPete2

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2005
651
0
16
Re: Lawbreaker Lawmakers

Senathos said:
Karlin said:
.

He did not make that law, the Legislature did. The Legislature of which the people of BC vote for, and it represents them. The Legislature passed the law, and the teachers are defying the will of the democratic government. I hope Jinny Sims is jailed and the union's funds taken, this is ridiculous. And now there was talk of the TWU getting involved, when they aren't even a public union. Hopefully it gets to the point where the court orders the union decertified.
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Answer - you seem a bit confused regarding the Canadian form of 'Democracy'. All politicians other than independant members, represent their party, not the people. It is a top-down power structure. They are creating laws that should not be respected in any way, but challenged to the Supreme Court. Contracts are to be negotiated, not imposed.
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M

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
If Campbell wants to break the union, or send a strong message he should fire the teachers en masse like Reagan did the air traffic controllers. If he truly has the public on-side, this should play well. Otherwise he should get back to the negotiating table.
 
L

LeftCoast

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2005
111
0
16
Vancouver
RE: Legal questions on st

As a Vancouverite with a child in first grade (Sir Wilfred Laurier elementary) I am very inconvenienced by the teachers strike, but at this point I support the teachers.

I am not too concerned over the actual issues of the strike. I believe teaches should be fairly paid - hell considering they are charged with such an important responsibility I say they should be paid generously.

Most importantly however I feel there is a failure on the part of the government to negotiate in good faith. BTW - It was the NDP not the BC Liberals that declared education an essential service, essentially banning strikes. I am not convinced on this, but I accept the logic for that, but it could fairly be argued either way. However once the province has this large stick (no strikes permitted) a sensible approach is to use it very cautiously. Legislating a contract upon the teachers without ever negotiating with them is not acting in good faith. I think the people of BC understand this, and this is the reason why many of us parent are supporting the teachers on this one.
 
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LeftCoast

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2005
111
0
16
Vancouver
RE: Legal questions on st

I think from the governments POV this is about setting a precedent. They don't want to hand the teachers an increase because then they will be pressured by all other public sector unions.

However - when it comes down to integrity and public trust, people are more likely to trust a school teacher than a politician. Gordo picked the wrong union to take on.
 
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Uber mullet

New Member
Oct 16, 2005
10
0
1
I find it ironic that, MMMIke , from ontario, where the teachers union has more money and power than the province!! is a dissenting voice. This teachers issue needs to be resolved, actually its not even just the teachers, its the HEU, and any other public service where there is labor strife from a contract being imposed. You are given the right to collective bargin and that right is yanked from you. Is there no legal issue about this?
 
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bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
Well I had the lovely experience of speaking with my MLA directly yesterday. All I did was to call into his constituency office and leave the message that "Be the bigger person here and please go negotiate". And he called me back personally. Talked ad nauseum about the Liberal's policy's, law breaking rhetoric, verbatim of Gordo actually. But what was really funny was when he was talking on about how unskilled labour get what they deserve, which infuriated me BTW so I started in on "So what are the qualfications to being a MP? What certifications or degrees are required to becoming a MP?" Seems you don't even need a grade 12 just gotta win the popularity contests and your in. He didn't like that too much, but I was nice about, well as nice as one can be when calling someone else unskilled, too easy actually. Nice to know that my local MP toes the party line and doesn't give a damn what his constituents say (I specifically asked him what the numbers were and he told me they aren't taking a count.). God that should be illegal. Too bad Chuck Cadman's style didn't rub off on him.
 
mrmom2

mrmom2

Senate Member
Mar 8, 2005
5,380
6
38
Kamloops BC
Way to go Bevvyd 8) I call my mp and get zero response :lol: He usually shuts down his office because get this Death threats 8O Thats his excuse and the prick is sticking to it .What a joke I've seen his sorry ass in our airport many times .Funny how he practicly runs away when i try to talk tp him :lol: :lol: Chicken shit
 
S

splinters

New Member
Sep 3, 2005
48
0
6
Montreal Kebec
RE: Legal questions on st

The teachers here that are still working with their "no work to rule" worked for a long time without a contract, nobody threw them in the slammer because there aren't any replacements. :) It's bad here in anglo qc.
 
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bevvyd

Electoral Member
Jul 29, 2004
848
0
16
Mission, BC
I also explained to Mr. Hawes that when someone is in breach of a contract you work thru the issue(s), you don't go suing everyone, but if he'd like a whole bunch of purchasing agents that I know to start doing that small business would disappear off the face of this map plus some mid sized business too. What a goof.
 
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