Layton issues warning to Grits

[no1important]

Layton issues warning to Grits

OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Paul Martin has to crack down on the number of private health-care clinics opening up for business or he will forfeit the NDP's support that's been propping up Martin's minority government, warns New Democrat Leader Jack Layton.

Layton is expected to have a meeting with Martin this week on the controversial issue of health-care clinics, which are popping up across the country and he's looking for a guarantee that there will be enforceable rules in place to prevent further expansion of private health-care services


All I can say is Martin better do the right thing or else an election before Christmas.

 

[Andygal]

RE: Layton issues warning

Yay Layton. It's about damn time SOMEBODY took a stand about the erosion of our healthcare system.

 

[Senathos]

RE: Layton issues warning

How are private clinics making our public system worse? If anything, they are making it better by exposing the public system's misfalls, as well as offering other options for everyone. Notice how the only people who dont like private health care are NDP supporters (and a small amount of Liberals). I don't see the big reason to not allow people a choice: it seems the left is saying "if I can't have it, then you can't".

 

[TenPenny]

"Private clinics"....please note that almost every GP in this country operates a "private clinic".....a GP is a self-employed business person, who bills the province for each procedure done. The doctor is responsible for their own office equipment, rent, staff, etc...

So how is this different from a "private clinic"????? It's truly amazing how either everyone in gov't is uninformed about how the medical system works, or else they are being deliberately vague and misleading for their own ends.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Layton issues warning

The private clinics that Layton is talking about are not the same as the clinics you are talking about, Ten Penny. The clinics you are referring to are operated as small businesses by the physician or a group of physicians but they are paid for most procedures by the government.

The clinics that Layton is talking about bill outside of the government structure or extra bill for some procedures. Others specialise in things not covered by our health care system, such as insurance claims.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: RE: Layton issues warning

The private clinics that Layton is talking about are not the same as the clinics you are talking about, Ten Penny. The clinics you are referring to are operated as small businesses by the physician or a group of physicians but they are paid for most procedures by the government.

The clinics that Layton is talking about bill outside of the government structure or extra bill for some procedures. Others specialise in things not covered by our health care system, such as insurance claims.

Then I really fail to see the problem....they specialise in things NOT COVERED by our system, so why should someone "crack down" on them? How can you justify cracking down on someone doing something NOT COVERED by the system? Some extra bill for some procedures........so Layton is saying the cardinal rule is, no special treatment for those who want to pay extra? Fine. Are they going to do away with the special treatment for MPs?

The clinics I am referring to are...99% of GP offices...and many specialists.....how many people out there actually understand how their doctor gets paid?

 

[Shiva]

What can Martin really do, anyway? Health care is in provincial jurisdiction, and then there was that ruling on that case from Quebec recently that opened the way to private clinics operating legally in Canada. Martin can't do anything about it.

See the following article:

Top court strikes down Quebec private health-care ban
Last Updated Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:33:36 EDT
CBC News

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Layton issues warning

The court ruling said that if adequate wasn't provided, that private clinics, or, more specifically, private insurance, should be available in Canada.

Martin can actually do a lot by working through the Canada Health Act and removing funding for provinces that won't play by the rules.

The real problem is with the provinces though, not with the feds. Quebec and Alberta are especially prone to demanding special treatment and trying to shove their wants down the throats of other provinces.

The provinces did finally agree to set benchmarks for wait times though. When complete, that will seriously undermine the premise of the court decision that you mentioned, Shiva. That decision was based on inadequate care because of wait times.

 

[LeftCoast]

RE: Layton issues warning

In BC they are playing politics on wait time benchmarks. New Health Minister George Abbot said on October 10th:

"For the present time, there are probably only a few areas in which one might be able to move forward by evidence-based benchmarks,"

"Artificially or otherwise contriving benchmarks that had no robust medical evidence behind them would not be a useful advance on what we already have,"

At the same time however, the BC Ministry of Health has eliminated funding for research on evidence based wait times benchmarks. This has not been announced, but my wife does health policy research for the UBC Center for Health Services and Policy Research (CHSPR) and a good friend and collegue who works for the BCMA - USED TO HAVE FUNDING for this project but it was withdrawn.

Ontario is going ahead with non-science based benchmarks based on what the public deems to be "reasonable" wait times. Hard evidence is only available for cardiac surgery and cancer treatment.

Benchmarks make the provinces very nervous. It obviously makes it very obvious when the standards are not being met, and could require some provinces to drastically increase health spending. Additionally, there are some legal implications, if a patient sues because they have to wait longer than the benchmark for a procedure, who is liable? The doctor? The hospital? The Province?




So here is the thing - there is $41 billion available from the Feds over the next 5 years to reduce wait times, but it is contingent on the provinces setting benchmarks. BC won't establish non-evidence based benchmarks and has withdrawn funding for research into scientific benchmarks.

Of course - this is not what they have told the public.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Layton issues warning

They reached an agreement this weekend though, LeftCoast...at least according to the news.

It wouldn't suprise me at all if Campbell's freakshow was trying to derail the process though.

 

[LeftCoast]

Re: RE: Layton issues warning

They reached an agreement this weekend though, LeftCoast...at least according to the news.

It wouldn't suprise me at all if Campbell's freakshow was trying to derail the process though.

I hope that's true and the signals that the research community are getting are not indicative of a retreat from benchmarks or another unfunded mandate.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Layton issues warning

There's a lot of political maneuvering going on, Left Coast. Campbell and Klein would like to see things privatised. Both of them, along with Harris and Manning, would like to let their corporate buddies in the US make some huge profits. Harper will back that if he can. Martin would like the whole thing to go away.

The thing is that their privatisation scam is extremely unpopular with Canadians, so they are being forced to go along with the rest of the country. As long as Martin refuses to put strings on the federal money, they can go along without hurting their privatisation schemes. That's why Layton wants strings on the federal money.

 

[no1important]

RE: Layton issues warning

Layton: PM could lose support over health care

NDP Leader Jack Layton called for concrete assurances from the governing Liberals that they will protect public health care from creeping privatization or risk losing his party's support.

"What we're focusing on right now is get some concrete results out of this parliament and stop privatization," he told reporters on Ottawa on Tuesday.

"We're saying if there's not action on these kinds of issues-- rapidly, significant action -- then Mr. Martin can't count on our support."

Right on Jack!!

 

[PoisonPete2]

I say that Martin has no interest in extending this minority government and wants an election as soon as possible to gain a majority in parliament. He doesn't expect to win the west so the rhetoric will ramp up about the 'scary socialists' to undermine the NDP. Half the liberal party should be doing time.

 

[Senathos]

RE: Layton issues warning

I agree Pete, the Liberals will look towards the centre-right this time, promising minor tax cuts and productivity enhancements, putting off "scary socialist" social programs of which Jack wants. I think its more of an attempt to dig into the ~50% of people who didn't vote then it is to try and get votes from the Conservatives or NDP.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

Martin and Layton are getting together to strike a deal on health care.....now that scares me. The last time these two got together they brokered a deal whereby tax cuts on their way to Canadians were cancelled, and the money was diverted to an NDP priority wish list......which incidentally received support from only 16% of Canadians....most of whom were the likes of NDP parroters...

The two parties who have done the most to kill the original dream of health care in Canada are now getting together to see how stop innovation. Health care workers across the country are making compromises to keep the system working, but the systematic problems that prevent health care innovation remain. Actually Layton has said that the purpose of the meeting is to "ban private health care delivery." ......the PM would have to get rid of his own person doc too...lol...like that is gonna happen.

Private health care accounts for over 30% of health care expenditures and is growing. Layton thinks he can roll is back and Martin is actually gonna to discuss the issue....geez the leader of this country is a joke. This is just another liberal trick to grab a high stand on an issue and then drop it once the election is over....what a dunce and the Canadians who ignore or are unaware of this are dumber.

The liberals stand on health care is hypocrisy...the NDP have confirmed their irrelevance....and the Conservatives have to choose to favor the status quo or to reform health care......and I think it will be the latter....this is of course if the liberal spin dosen't get to ya.

Look at all the countries of the world which have a Universal Health Care system. Where does Canada rank in the pack? Now tell me if the ones at the top of the pack ahve a single tier system or a two tier system? Do some research on health care around the world.....

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Layton issues warning

I don't know...every time Layton asks a question about healthcare in Question Period, the Liberals claim to be the same as the NDP and attack the Conservatives.

I think the Liberals will come out with a health care plan right off the NDP website for the next election. They'll likely move on the environment too. They'll give some moderate tax cuts, but they have already said that any surplus will be split between paying down the debt, funding social programs, and tax cuts, so there's nothing new there.