Layton: Deserters OK
- Thread starter I think not
- Start date
Some of you really amaze me, "just following orders" when this order is immoral or against rules of engagement does not absolve the soldier of criminal activity. It also works in reverse, disobeying an order deemed immoral of against rules of engagement by the soldier would be considered a basis for an investigation.
These people that fled North didn't know any better when they signed up, period.
These people that fled North didn't know any better when they signed up, period.
Canada's not the USA and I think welcoming Deserters is fine and well.
Though I do not think Americans who join the Armed forces by their own free will should be Deserting, however if Americans were to start a draft I'd say we should open our doors completely to them.
Though I do not think Americans who join the Armed forces by their own free will should be Deserting, however if Americans were to start a draft I'd say we should open our doors completely to them.
I think not said:
WoW ITN! This is actually something that we agree on. I am completely with you on this one.
Ppl, when troops sign up they are signing up to defend their country not go out and commit crimes against humanity. They go into it trusting that their higher ups are going to lead them in the conflict in a way that they can later feel proud of. Nobody wants to be a war criminal, and they don't sign up thinking that this is what they are going to be ordered to do. These guys, if they follow the orders of their higher ups, that is exactly what they are going to do - with the possibilty that later they may be brought to trial with charges of crimes against humanity. Crimes they never wanted to commit! If these are honorable men then I would prefer to see them disagree with the blatant violations of the Geneva Conventions - the rules of engagement - and come here to Canada to find asylum.
And heck ya! I would house a soldier trying to seek refuge from a military gone stupid! Why wouldn't you?
I just feel it's the right thing to do.
The point I was trying to make Magnolia, if the soldiers stayed in the armed forces, they could have possibly done more good to bring to light criminal activities by superior officers. They could have just plainly refused to carry out an immoral order, or an order that contravenes conventions. It would launch an investigation as it has been done in the past.
No court martial will send any soldier to prison when proven he refused to follow any of the above. In other words, the soldiers fleeing North got cold feet or regretted joining the military.
While I sympathize with them, they did not do the right thing. They should be sent back to the US and tried.
No court martial will send any soldier to prison when proven he refused to follow any of the above. In other words, the soldiers fleeing North got cold feet or regretted joining the military.
While I sympathize with them, they did not do the right thing. They should be sent back to the US and tried.
I get a little offended when people say that they signed up to defend their country, but did not sign up to go fight in an illegal, immoral, or whatever other kind of derogatory adjective you can use, war.
They signed up to be soldiers, and once that happens, your single identity is lost for the time you are a soldier, because that is the only way an army can survive. I mean really, lets look at an extreme. A platoon of soldiers is sent out to find and destroy a group that plants roadside bombs. But in this platoon, several don't want to destroy them, so when they find them, they put their guns down, due to their individual choices. This, of course, gets a bunch of their own killed in the fight, maybe even themselves. Armies cannot work like that.
They don't want to go? Get some balls and do the Mohammed Ali thing, go to jail, serve your time, and get back into mainstream life. The last thing we need in Canada is a bunch of selfserving left leaning cowards. Got enough of those already. Stay in your own country and have the testicular fortitude to make and decision and live with the consequences.
They signed up to be soldiers, and once that happens, your single identity is lost for the time you are a soldier, because that is the only way an army can survive. I mean really, lets look at an extreme. A platoon of soldiers is sent out to find and destroy a group that plants roadside bombs. But in this platoon, several don't want to destroy them, so when they find them, they put their guns down, due to their individual choices. This, of course, gets a bunch of their own killed in the fight, maybe even themselves. Armies cannot work like that.
They don't want to go? Get some balls and do the Mohammed Ali thing, go to jail, serve your time, and get back into mainstream life. The last thing we need in Canada is a bunch of selfserving left leaning cowards. Got enough of those already. Stay in your own country and have the testicular fortitude to make and decision and live with the consequences.
Do you really feel that they should be brought back to the U.S and tried?
These guys are being ordered to shoot innocent Iraqi civilians. Families, women, children. They are being ordered to 'open up' on people in markets that have nothing to do with what's going on.
I urge people to read the article i added to my last post.
http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views06/0429-30.htm
Do you really think these guys should be tried for not wanting to become war criminals?
What i was saying before is that there are going to be investigations into this. Eventually, people are going to be held accountable for the slaughter for innocent Iraqi civilians. Look at WWII. There were Nazi soldiers who were being brought to justice ages after the fact and serving sentences for their part in the war.
I think that if these guys see crimes against humanity being committed, if they don't agree with it or can't bring themselves to shoot at a car full of kids then they should leave.
If this was about soldiers that are in a situation where they are not committing crimes but fighting an enemy and can't hack it, i think that's completely different. Then they would have to stay and do their jobs. But i think this is different. And i support those guys that have to guts to say no, who are unwilling to kill the innocent. That's NOT what war is about. War is about protecting your country and the people of your country against an enemy.
So, i ask you, what have the Iraqis done to be treated this way? They haven't done anything wrong.
These guys are being ordered to shoot innocent Iraqi civilians. Families, women, children. They are being ordered to 'open up' on people in markets that have nothing to do with what's going on.
I urge people to read the article i added to my last post.
http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views06/0429-30.htm
Do you really think these guys should be tried for not wanting to become war criminals?
What i was saying before is that there are going to be investigations into this. Eventually, people are going to be held accountable for the slaughter for innocent Iraqi civilians. Look at WWII. There were Nazi soldiers who were being brought to justice ages after the fact and serving sentences for their part in the war.
I think that if these guys see crimes against humanity being committed, if they don't agree with it or can't bring themselves to shoot at a car full of kids then they should leave.
If this was about soldiers that are in a situation where they are not committing crimes but fighting an enemy and can't hack it, i think that's completely different. Then they would have to stay and do their jobs. But i think this is different. And i support those guys that have to guts to say no, who are unwilling to kill the innocent. That's NOT what war is about. War is about protecting your country and the people of your country against an enemy.
So, i ask you, what have the Iraqis done to be treated this way? They haven't done anything wrong.
How truthful your statement is. Canada is a Holiday Inn for all kinds Tamil Tigers, Deserters, Illegal Criminals etc.. :roll:I think not said:
I think not and Johnny Utah, grouping a terrorist or a Liberation orginization (as some may call it) with army deserters is going way off in right field here. I'd love to hear how you can actually group the two groups together... please do so, so we can see how twisted your minds work.
I wasn't grouping them as the same I was adding them to a list of others who see Canada as a haven..Finder said:
Finder said:
I was being sarcastic, but since you brought up the issue of a twisted mind, why don;t you ask your government why the Tamil Tigers (a terrorist organization) was perfectly legal in Canada?
Answer: They seeked political asylum. That's how twisted my mind is.
You call them Libertarian? I think your mind is twisted there Finder, not mine.
ITN, no now that is twisting my words around. I merely stated some may call them a liberation orginization, just like some may call the American Armed forces a liberation orginization even though neither are. ;-)
Re: RE: Layton: Deserters OK
It is because you just don tunderstand what is going on, some peoples in the usa, doesnt have a choice to join the army, it is the army or no job, and the system is made that way, keep people poors and ignorant, so they do the dirty job for you,have you ever been to some poor city in united states?? where 50% of the population is unemployement??
The army is the only choice.
Roger said:
It is because you just don tunderstand what is going on, some peoples in the usa, doesnt have a choice to join the army, it is the army or no job, and the system is made that way, keep people poors and ignorant, so they do the dirty job for you,have you ever been to some poor city in united states?? where 50% of the population is unemployement??
The army is the only choice.
I think not said:
Why are you turning this thread from deserter to terrorist???
Usa is the biggest terrorist supporter, you guys trained alquada, you guys supports cuban terrorism,again through the cia,even up to these days,the 19 hijackers from alquada were being trained in usa flight scool, before 9-11, when alquada was already suspect of many events.Your governement blocked fbi from investigating the bin laden and alquada just couple month before 9-11,Your governement is a terrorist organisation, which is still supported in your country.