Layton Demands Emergency Debate

[FiveParadox]

Just as I had feared would happen, the Honourable Jack Layton, P.C., M.P., the Member for Toronto—Danforth and Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada is demanding that the House of Commons conduct an emergency debate as soon as the House convenes — whether or not the Government of Canada objects.

At a time where the current Government maintains that support for the Canadian Forces must be represented through unwaivering support for whatever operations they may be involved in, the Right Honourable Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P., the Member for Calgary Southwest and the Prime Minister of Canada has pushed his Government into a corner — if Mr. Layton goes ahead and requests an emergency debate from the Speaker of the House of Commons as planned, and the Speaker agrees that the request is of an urgent nature, then there is nothing that the Government — nor the Prime Minister, in particular — can do to prevent such a debate.

Mr. Layton wants the emergency debate to take place on April 5th, the day after the receipt of the Speech from the Throne. Under normal circumstances, emergency debates take place after the adjournment of the House, and continue until debate and discussion of the matter at hand have been exhausted, or until midnight — whichever comes first.

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Cet article est epuisé en français.

:!: Revision : Added a poll.

 

[Kreskin]

Note to self: Don't buy newspaper April 6

 

[JoeyB]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

If the circumstances are serious enough then the speaker will grant the request, but on many occasions those requests are denied, usually as the government sees fit. If the Governments handling of a particular issue is substandard then the speaker may well try to prevent further embarrassment of the government by denying such.
The emergency debates are also sometimes conducted towards the end of a parliamentary sitting so the MP's can receive a pay increase (bonuses) for working 'overtime' a very clever way of disguising money grabbing.
If the issue is legitimate, there is merit in the debate, but regardless of the individual members' concerns, troops have been sent by the government, and should be supported by the people.
if the issue is not legitimate, the troops should still be supported by the people, but the government should be brought to it's knees and flogged mercilessly, until it yeilds in agony and shame for it's abhorrent use of military intervention for political gain. See: Australian government for this example. My whip is waiting.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

Qualify support for troops, we feed them we supply them with arm them and we pay them, they are already the beneficiaries of our lavish support, If you mean by support our unqualified blank check no questions asked blessing for the mission no.

 

[cortez]

i really dont believe that having a debate about the afgan mission could have an appreciable effect on troup moral
---free and open debate is an inherrent part of the system our military is supposably--- protecting---
particularly when it involves such an important issue as war
remember this is only a debate---
let the governmat defend its position against criticism--
it may well be able to do so---

however
if it cant reasonably defend its decision to have the canadian military -- in a more active role in afganistan--- or in a WAR situation then we might well understand why its using the fragile- morale - of- our -troops-- excuse to prevent such a debate

yes--- theres just no limit to the tactics governments will use to try and stifle democrasy

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

Qualify support for troops, we feed them we supply them we arm them and we pay them, they are already the beneficiaries of our lavish support, If you mean by support our unqualified blank check no questions asked blessing for the mission, no. That public scocial moral authority that would sanction this mission must come from rigorous debate, it cannot be left to the Government of the day, this is the public accountability of elected officials that the Con party has long sought and campaigned for, why would they all of a sudden rigorously oppose there own bedrock party policy, could it be because they are hipocritical liars.

 

[Alberta'sfinest]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

Aren't all polititions hypocritical liars. Sometimes what needs to be done requires one to become a hypocritical liar.
We were invited by the newly formed afghan government to help protect their newly formed country from a taliban insurgency which could return the taliban to power. I think it's nobel of us to spend resources and risk the loss of troops to help a foreign country achieve a new found state of freedom and democracy from a past of turbulance, war, and oppression. This brings great honour to our country. I think people are just cronic bitchers these days. Just give them an issue, and they'll find a reason.

 

[cortez]

Re: RE: Layton Demands Emerge

Aren't all polititions hypocritical liars. Sometimes what needs to be done requires one to become a hypocritical liar.
We were invited by the newly formed afghan government to help protect their newly formed country from a taliban insurgency which could return the taliban to power. I think it's nobel of us to spend resources and risk the loss of troops to help a foreign country achieve a new found state of freedom and democracy from a past of turbulance, war, and oppression. This brings great honour to our country. I think people are just cronic bitchers these days. Just give them an issue, and they'll find a reason.

the thread is NOT about what we think
its about having parliament debate it

 

[Lineman]

The time to debate this would have been before Prime Minster Paul Martin and the Liberal Government agreed to it, not now that the mission is underway. Mr. Layton wants nothing more than to be seen on television disagreeing with the present government. All show - No substance.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Layton is grand standing for the media, this is what it's all about.

 

[Lotuslander]

JoeyB wrote:

I

f the circumstances are serious enough then the speaker will grant the request, but on many occasions those requests are denied, usually as the government sees fit. If the Governments handling of a particular issue is substandard then the speaker may well try to prevent further embarrassment of the government by denying such.
The emergency debates are also sometimes conducted towards the end of a parliamentary sitting so the MP's can receive a pay increase (bonuses) for working 'overtime' a very clever way of disguising money grabbing.

Two points, Since there is no Speaker yet we don't know if the new one will be from the Government or the Opposition. Secondly, In Canada MPs are paid a salary and so they get no overtime.

 

[Finder]

We are supposed to be a democratic nation, and in a democratic nation I do not believe a debate is harmful to anything but autocracy. In the USA and now in Canada, some are saying a debate will hurt our army, bring down moral and help the enemy. Frankly I am surprised that I am hearing such fascist statments from our conservatives, using fear and unjustified statments to scare the populace away from democratic traditions. I highly doubt a debate will change our stance on Afcanistan, and those among us who are semi-war-hawks when it comes to Afcanistan don't need to fear that we will be leaving any time soon. But if we can not have a simple debate on any issue then why even elect a government in the first place?

Why can't we show our troops that they have the peoples government support or not. If the people do not support the troops in a government debate, then so be it and let the facade disappear and fade away.

I do not fear democracy as many do in this time and age, I embrace it and try to get others to as well.

For some reason in Canada we take our conservative traditions of security, order and stability a little too far. We fear change at times in Canada.

 

[damngrumpy]

We must be careful here, Canada does have a role to play in this country. We should be building infastructure and we should be defending ourselves where need be also
In Iraq. like it or not, the legal government was overthrown by the international criminal actions of a coalition of nations with the greed for oil as their prime motivating factor.
In Afghanistan, these people were at the mercy of blood thirsty criminals, that were preparing for violence around the world.
The disturbing truth is however we ousted the crazy, violent, tyrants and replaced them with the former tyrants the old war lords who really run the country despite all the trappings of a so called democracy.
There is no freedom no democracy and no justice in the nation and there is no hope for any improvement including peace any time soon.

 

[aeon]

Those who doesnt want debate, doesnt believe in democracy.

 

[Jay]

Layton is grand standing for the media, this is what it's all about.

No...not Jack, he's camera shy.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

they are already the beneficiaries of our lavish support

Might want to rethink the word lavish when refering to the Canadian Forces.

That said, this issue is getting out of hand. A debate is one thing, but an emergency debate? What the hell? Where is the emergency? I already pointed out that in 2003-2004 we lost 3 of our 4 combat related deaths, why was there no emergency then? Oh right, because back then it didn't suit Laytons political plans. If the Government wants a debate fine, but an emergency one, that just makes us look weak to the rest of the World, a stigma our current Government is trying to break. An emergency would be if our Brigade in Kandahar was over-run and our troops scattered. An emergency would be if the militants used NBC weapons on our troops there. An emergency would be if we were losing 50 or 60 troops a day if Afghanistan. Right now we've lost 11 men KIA in a 5 year span. No emergency was called after Dieppe in 1942 when 907 Canadians were killed on the shores of France in less than 12 hours. No emergency was called in 1973 when the Canadian Airborne lost 13 men KIA at the Ledra Palace in Cyprus, in 3 hours. There is no emergency in Afghanistan, this nation has suffered way worse in far shorter time frames. Mr. Layton lacks a backbone, an all too common scenario with Canadian politicians.

 

[FiveParadox]

Mogz, I think that perhaps the Honourable Jack Layton, P.C., M.P. is using the emergency debate measure because the current Government of Canada has made it clear that there are to be no debates, discussions, question periods or conferences whatsoever on the issue of the mission in Afghanistan. The Prime Minister of Canada backed the opposition into a corner on this — and at least Mr. Layton is using an emergency debate, instead of an opposition day! If he were to use the latter, then he could put forward a votable motion to accompany his discussion.

This is the result of the Government refusing to bring up a discussion on its own terms.

 

[Jay]

On it's own terms? You have given the very, very young government a chance have you?

 

[FiveParadox]

If you would look elsewhere on these forums, Jay, then you would see that I have supported the current Government insofar as I concur that there should be no vote on the mission in Afghanistan in the House of Commons. However, I have condemned the Government's refusal to even so much as discuss the issue — they made it clear that there would be not only no debate, but no discussion whatsoever — I support the Afghanistan mission, so I think the Government's decision was stupid, because I knew that the NDP would end up piping up with a request for an emergency debate.

 

[Mogz]

RE: Layton Demands Emerge

Perhaps Five, but i've watched Layton for years, and them man is spineless. I'll concede that perhaps Layton is using the emergency debate method to Force Harper in to debating the Operation, it's possible.