Kyoto is pointless, say 60 leading scientists

[Toro]

Re: RE: Kyoto is pointless, say 60 leading scientists

Toro, LOL, you're no Ted Bell.

The Delays in Market Capitalism are notoriously
inefficient some times. Therefore it takes a societal
push to create a leader who will lead the market.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. Markets don't work all the time. Using government to promote a specific outcome that is beneficial is smart IMO.

(And right now, I'm listening to Bobbi Dooley extolling the virtues of cannibalism.)

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: Kyoto is pointless, say 60 leading scientists

However, not including developing China is certainly
unfair.

Jim, on a per capita basis (the only fair measure of consumption/emissions) China emits a small fraction of what we energy hogs in North America emit. So who are we to lecture them? Besids, they are not in Kyoto version 1. The accord needs to be renewed and renegotiated... China will eventually sign on.

Sometimes the market will not invest in NEW, whereas
a government can take the lead and hand off the baton
to the market.

Sometimes pioneering technology must be made free
to all. Then the next phase kicks in.

To a certain extent I think the government needs to lead the way, and support the technology. But I think the most important thing is for them to rationalize the market by imposing the environmental & health cost on the price of fossil fuels. Slap on a fat carbon tax, and direct the revenues to R&D or tax credits for green technologies.

 

[MMMike]

By the way, I haven't found the story online, but Peter Mansbridge just reported on the National that 90 leading climate scientists today sent a letter to Harper saying that the evidence for man-made climate change is indisputable and urgent action is required. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a link.

 

[jimmoyer]

MMMike, we're quite in agreement here, except for
your perception of China.

The pollution there and the enviromental impact
could be accurately described as a Dickensian industrial
disaster.

 

[I think not]

A Snapshot:

 

[BitWhys]

great graph!!!

 

[BitWhys]

Germany, 600,000 jobs...

UK 700,000 jobs...

you'd think they could have made it more obvious they were talking opportunity cost.

lobbyists...

eesh.

 

[MMMike]

Scientists urge PM to fund national climate strategy
Last Updated Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:18:35 EDT
CBC News
A group of 90 of Canada's most senior climate scientists have sent an open letter to the prime minister, warning that global warming is happening now and the federal government needs to do more about the problem.


INDEPTH: Kyoto

The letter comes in the wake of:

A report indicating that the Greenland ice sheet is melting faster than predicted.
A study predicting future water crises on the Canadian Prairies.
Recent extreme weather events worldwide, including a record hurricane season.

FROM FEB. 16, 2006: Greenland glaciers melting at faster pace: study


FROM APRIL 4, 2006: Looming drought on Prairies will be worse than Dust Bowl days of 1930s: experts

A who's who of the country's atmospheric scientists from the government, the private sector and universities have written to Prime Minister Stephen Harper to say the federal government isn't doing enough about climate change.


RELATED: April 18 letter to Prime Minister Stephen Harper [in .pdf format]

Earlier this month, the government cancelled 15 climate-change programs, including the One Tonne Challenge for individuals, another that encouraged clean urban transit and one to promote green power.

Read the rest here

Personally, I'll take 90 academics and researchers over 60 oil company shills anyday.

 

[I think not]

I don't think the question has ever been, is global warming occuring, but rather is it a natural occuring cycle or anthropogenic. That really is the long and short of it, and I have seen no compelling evidence which one it is.

Having said that, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how we are hurting our environment, we need to do something to expedite new technologies and from the looks of the graph, I don't think Kyoto is meant to do that.

 

[#juan]

Kyoto is designed to reduce emissions, but it sometimes misses other advances in green technology. Canada's performance would have shown much better if our wind power installations had been counted for 2005.

link

 

[Jay]

I don't think the question has ever been, is global warming occuring, but rather is it a natural occuring cycle or anthropogenic. That really is the long and short of it, and I have seen no compelling evidence which one it is.

Interesting link.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/050505_earth_bright.html

 

[MMMike]

Interesting link Jay. Now I'll shamelessly hijack this thread to tell you all to report to the Sports forum & put in your picks for the hockey pool.

Now I'll get out of here before Haggis finds out. **ducks and runs**

 

[FiveParadox]

It's too late, MMMike... Her Most Excellent Majesty, Haggis McBagpipe, Dungeonmaster in and over Canadian Content, has eyes and ears everywhere...

 

[Toro]

Haggis is back!

:cheers: