Yes, you are clear, but I'd rather have both things not happening instead of Islamophobia followed by USophobia, and I think that is not the solution either to all of this - especially since Islamophobia does not merily has its roots in the US, but also in Europe.
Islamophobia spreading far and wide
- Thread starter moghrabi
- Start date
Interesting article, Moghrabi. I found one paragraph particularly thought-provoking:
Don't get me wrong ... I think Islamophobia is harmful to everyone. Any discrimination diminishes society as a whole. I think it is unequivocally wrong, but I understand why it is happening. US leaders need someone to fight with. Their rep as being the tough guy on the block is in jeopardy if they have no one to prove themselves against. And what would they do with all the war toys they've developed and collected?? A peaceful world is not in their best interest, philosophically or financially.
On a personal note, I must admit to owning some prejudices. I have no fear of middle Eastern peoples, but my judgement of politicos, both US and Canadian, is a prejudice in itself. I think that may have been the point Rick was making.
Moghrabi, are you Islamic? I have noticed you are very vocal about these topics. If so, how is this affecting you personally? It would be interesting to speak with someone who is experiencing it first hand.
I had never experienced any kind of discrimination until I went to work for a branch of the BC government. I was only the 3rd woman ever hired in that segment. That I was a lesbian was no big deal. That I was a woman was. I had lesser security clearance than men who were hired after me, got treated like a second rate citizen in any area where my union didn't specifically protect me. It was so weird to be in that position. It was also extremely educational for me.
Prejudice is completely irrational and cannot be met with any kind of intellectual argument. Being somewhat outspoken (ahem, ok, very outspoken), I ended up being quite unpopular with my boss at times. I didn't take any shit from him. I went over his head a couple of times to level the playing field. Because I have little fear of anything, I was able to do that, but there was another woman there who could not afford to lose her job and was at the mercy of the discrimination.
Anyway, good article.
It seems to me that the "free" world always needs an enemy. Friedrich Nietzsche said something to the effect of, "In times of peace a war-like man will turn on himself". I suspect many people are so invested in having an enemy and a threat that they know no other way to live. We can't look to the Russians as the big bad wolf any longer and you have to admit that with 9-11 the middle East did kind of set itself up for the position.
Don't get me wrong ... I think Islamophobia is harmful to everyone. Any discrimination diminishes society as a whole. I think it is unequivocally wrong, but I understand why it is happening. US leaders need someone to fight with. Their rep as being the tough guy on the block is in jeopardy if they have no one to prove themselves against. And what would they do with all the war toys they've developed and collected?? A peaceful world is not in their best interest, philosophically or financially.
On a personal note, I must admit to owning some prejudices. I have no fear of middle Eastern peoples, but my judgement of politicos, both US and Canadian, is a prejudice in itself. I think that may have been the point Rick was making.
Moghrabi, are you Islamic? I have noticed you are very vocal about these topics. If so, how is this affecting you personally? It would be interesting to speak with someone who is experiencing it first hand.
I had never experienced any kind of discrimination until I went to work for a branch of the BC government. I was only the 3rd woman ever hired in that segment. That I was a lesbian was no big deal. That I was a woman was. I had lesser security clearance than men who were hired after me, got treated like a second rate citizen in any area where my union didn't specifically protect me. It was so weird to be in that position. It was also extremely educational for me.
Prejudice is completely irrational and cannot be met with any kind of intellectual argument. Being somewhat outspoken (ahem, ok, very outspoken), I ended up being quite unpopular with my boss at times. I didn't take any shit from him. I went over his head a couple of times to level the playing field. Because I have little fear of anything, I was able to do that, but there was another woman there who could not afford to lose her job and was at the mercy of the discrimination.
Anyway, good article.
Yes I am a Muslim Arab of Lebanese decent. Been here in Canada for a long time and I lived on the Island too.
I am very vocal about my origins. I don't believe I should hide who I am. This is cowardly.
As for discrimination: It happens everyday but as outspoken as I am, people actually start to respect me more for what I say. They turned around a lot since I explained to them what I believe in. That Islam is a peaceful country. That Bin laden is Bush's best friend. That wars are made to sell and test arms.
Yes people do need an enemy and the enemy was the evil communist and now the Arab. Tomorrow is another day.
I am very vocal about my origins. I don't believe I should hide who I am. This is cowardly.
As for discrimination: It happens everyday but as outspoken as I am, people actually start to respect me more for what I say. They turned around a lot since I explained to them what I believe in. That Islam is a peaceful country. That Bin laden is Bush's best friend. That wars are made to sell and test arms.
Yes people do need an enemy and the enemy was the evil communist and now the Arab. Tomorrow is another day.
Very interesting, Moghrabi. Do you find Canadians discriminate against you? Or is it more of a problem when you cross into the US? Apparently some of the 9-11 bad terrorists got into the US via Canada.
In my own circles I don't know anyone who is has a prejudice toward Islamic people, but I tend to travel with fairly open minded folk.
You lived on the Island? I assume by your comment you have moved away? I missed it so much here I had to come back. I was born and raised in the interior of BC, but Victoria is my real home. I love the to look out and see the sunshine and green grass. It's a gorgeous day here today. Yer missing out!
In my own circles I don't know anyone who is has a prejudice toward Islamic people, but I tend to travel with fairly open minded folk.
You lived on the Island? I assume by your comment you have moved away? I missed it so much here I had to come back. I was born and raised in the interior of BC, but Victoria is my real home. I love the to look out and see the sunshine and green grass. It's a gorgeous day here today. Yer missing out!
My uncle once said that my sister could have the boyfriend she liked, "as long as it isn't a Turk". I still don't know whether he was being funny or serious. That about prejudice toward well, Turks in this case. I don't know why I am posting this.
I never had one problem in Canada. I was searched at the border and tied to my car for few hours. It was humiliating. I will never set foot there.
As for the island I mss it too. I lived in Victoria for a short while and then in Campbell River for 4 years.
It is sunny here too.
As for the island I mss it too. I lived in Victoria for a short while and then in Campbell River for 4 years.
It is sunny here too.
Yeah guess so. But that's already a long time ago, and I have actually no idea what his current mindset is about "them". At least my uncle does not have to "worry" *sarcasm* - my sister already found her a white, Dutch boyfriend.
RE: Islamophobia spreadin
Ricky ... each country seems to have its targets. Here in Canada, most of the discrimination is either toward Native Indians or East Indians. The US seems to target Blacks and Hispanics. I know very little about your country so who seems to be the favoured target there?
Moghrabi ... "tied to your car"? Not literally??
Ricky ... each country seems to have its targets. Here in Canada, most of the discrimination is either toward Native Indians or East Indians. The US seems to target Blacks and Hispanics. I know very little about your country so who seems to be the favoured target there?
Moghrabi ... "tied to your car"? Not literally??
RE: Islamophobia spreadin
How bizarre. It seems unthinkable that such a thing would happen in this day and age. Makes me ashamed of my species.
How bizarre. It seems unthinkable that such a thing would happen in this day and age. Makes me ashamed of my species.
In my country, the main targets of discrimination are Moroccans, Turks and people from the Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles ... especially Moroccans are scape goats nowadays, with the murderer of Theo van Gogh (you might have heard about it) being a Moroccan "making" it all worse.
RE: Islamophobia spreadin
Interesting, isn't it, that each country has its own little group to hate.
I meant mankind as a whole, Moghrabi. We're supposed to be the "most intelligent" species on the planet and when I see what we do to one another it shames me. As much as we like to put on airs about being civilized and above other mammals, the sad truth is the "lizard brain" runs us far more than we admit. We have not begun to fulfill our potential as a species and the way things are being managed, we'll probably wipe ourselves out before we ever can.
Interesting, isn't it, that each country has its own little group to hate.
I meant mankind as a whole, Moghrabi. We're supposed to be the "most intelligent" species on the planet and when I see what we do to one another it shames me. As much as we like to put on airs about being civilized and above other mammals, the sad truth is the "lizard brain" runs us far more than we admit. We have not begun to fulfill our potential as a species and the way things are being managed, we'll probably wipe ourselves out before we ever can.
Actually the idea of us humans being the most intelligent is becoming false. If you look at ants during the summer and notice how one ant discovers food, it then goes and calls a whole colony. They all help to carry the food to their underground home. We humans will fight and kill each other just when someone discovers the food. Never mind working together to get it there.
Well isn't that a bit dramatic moghrabi I mean, we can fight, we can kill, but we can also work together, feel one, support each other. I found one of the best examples of the last years the massive protests against the war in Iraq from Cairo to New York, from Amsterdam to Tokyo.
I mean, we can fight, we can kill, but we can also work together, feel one, support each other. I found one of the best examples of the last years the massive protests against the war in Iraq from Cairo to New York, from Amsterdam to Tokyo.It is really not dramatic. We are not as advanced as we like to think. Yes we scream and shout against this and that. But what happens at the end. Nothing.
Those protests did not stop anything. Everything went as planned at the high echelon. We are becoming a race of self-destruction.
Those protests did not stop anything. Everything went as planned at the high echelon. We are becoming a race of self-destruction.
Somehow I just don't agree with you. But that's more based on my own feelings about this. So it would be hard discussing it. But although I do not deny that there is an establishment in likely every country to direct the country to where they wish to go it to, we humans still have the possibility to live in our own freedom, and we still have the ability to change things, although it will always be slowly and "painful". That's what I believe.
Slowly and painfully. These are the key words. Slowly so people Like Bush and his clan can do whatever they are planning to do and painfully because of all the killings and bloodshed left behind.
Yes we can live in out own little freedom, Rick. But is this what our aim is as human beings.
Yes we can live in out own little freedom, Rick. But is this what our aim is as human beings.
Were just animals (or savages) at heart. We are a greedy selfish species who will destroy the planet and ourselves long before we ever learn to get along with each other.