Is the 'China threat' real?

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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RE: Is the 'China threat'

Free enterprise will make China richer. As free enterprise makes people richer, people will demand more say in their government. Eventually, the Communist Party in China will fall. Free enterprise and democracy are axiomatic.
 

cool_jedi

New Member
Apr 14, 2005
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RE: Is the 'China threat'

You guys are so racist. I suspect people are bashing a eastern countries just because they are not caucasian. Can't find a job and how will you react? blaming the minorities is priority. And the government is nevery the blame eh? Cut the "strong should rule the weak" philosphy will ya.

This kind of thinking is just like the evil whermacht. and it is all their fault. all their fault.........
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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"You guys are so racist. I suspect people are bashing a eastern countries just because they are not caucasian."

Wouldn't that make you and your suspicions racist?
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Hey y'all. Come on over. The air ain't that fresh, so if you've got asthma I might recommend you think twice about comming. But as for the rest of you, i'tll be an eye opener. The Chinese are friends. Maybe some of you just need to understand them better.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Chinese people are an interesting bunch. The Chinese government is a different matter.

I saw a documentary the other day on how Wal-Mart has expanded into China. Get this. Eighty Five Thousand people a day frequented a store on a SLOW day 8O
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Turtle soup...I thought you guys ate that sorta stuff in the South....
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Wanted: Bulls in the China Shop

By Azhar Javed

'Catch me if you can” are the words fit for China because it is on a long march to capture the world economic markets and develop resources as part of Beijing’s ‘go forth’ policy to ride the globalisation bandwagon. China is emerging as an economic superpower within a decade.
Meanwhile, the world looks at the phenomenon of ‘Made in China’ with awe and ponders over its repercussions the moment the WTO comes into effect.

China is the largest exporter of photocopiers, micro ovens, CD players, which is the 70 per cent of total exports of these products in the world. It exports 50 per cent digital cameras and 20 per cent computers and computer related accessories.

China is also major exporter of meat, cotton, peanut, canola, fruit, iron, coal, cement, fertilizer, cloths, television, toys, auto parts, crockery, stationery, shoes, firecrackers and many other unaccountable goods.
The 1.3 billion population has become an asset for China as the wage advantage and big domestic consumption are attracting investors and manufacturers, specially for multi-national companies to set up their main plants offices, industrial units there or relocate from other parts of the world. By reforming economic policy, China has become the world’s cheapest manufacturing country, which has attracted a substantial foreign direct investments (FDIs).

The World Bank has predicted at least 9.2 per cent growth for China this year (2004), up from 9.1 per cent in last fiscal year 2003.

Chinese organisations are moving up the ladder as their country’s membership of the WTO guarantees them access to world markets. From toys to computer chips, everything is being exported to the rest of the world these days.

China’s economy accounts for about 12 per cent of world output, double its input a decade ago.

Figures released by the Commerce Ministry of China showed that in the first 10 months of this year, China has attracted $53.8 billion in FDIs, up 23.47 per cent year-on-year.

It is amazing to note that three decades ago, China was among the world’s poorest countries with 80 per cent of the population having incomes less than $1 per day. Only one-third of adults were able to read or write. By 2000, China had become one of the fastest economically growing countries in the world with real per capita growth close to 9 per cent per annum between 1980-2000.
Consequently, China’s per capita income doubled every ten years, faster than almost any other country in the world.

China now exports over $500 billion a year and is committed to continue opening up and active participation in economic globalisation.

A study by investment bank Goldman-Sachs predicts China will overtake Germany in economic output by 2008, Japan by 2015 and the United States by 2040. If the Chinese kept up with the pace of growth, they are bound to overtake Britain and France to become the world’s fourth biggest exporter country before the end of 2005. Whereas World Bank admitted that China has already become fourth largest exporter country of the world.

The multinational firms/factories has rushed to China for boost up of their businesses and more profits owing to the cheap labour. The latest is Ford, which announced plan to set up new $1.5billion plant there.

USA the largest exporter of the world has also worried about the growth and development of the China in all fields. In fact, China has captured the US market through floating the goods on cheaper rates.

European countries are facing the challenges of the China products. According to European Union’s executive commission annual “competitiveness report”, EU warns that China is turning itself into a low-cost competitor in high-skill industries”.

The lesson for companies in the West are that they must pour funds into research and development, continually adapts, if they are to fend off the seemingly unstoppable rise of China.

China is the 25-nation EU’s second largest trading partner after the United States. But much of that trade is one-way. From a surplus in 1995 with the EU’s older 15 members, the bloc now has a massive deficit with China of more than 10 billion Euros (13 billion dollars).

The electronics sector in Hungary has notably lost jobs to China, which has poured investment into cutting-edge sectors such as production of dynamic random access memory chips to leapfrog past eastern European rivals.
Whereas Chinese exports of information-technology (IT) goods to the EU-15 countries rose by about 25 per cent over 1996-2002, they soared by more than 50 per cent to the 10 new members over the same period.

China looks set to entrench its dominance in the rag trade when global import quotas are lifted from January, leading to EU warnings that it will safeguard its textiles industry to prevent a flood of Chinese imports.
But the textiles trade provides a case in point for how the EU can respond to the growing might of China, the European Commission report said.

No doubt, time has proved in the past that China remained a true and loyal friend of Pakistan. The economically growth of China is not threatening at all. It does not believe in hegemony or expansionism.

According to a Chinese official who released the latest China-Pakistan trade figures, China is ready and anxious to help Pakistan to boost its exports to China but the Pakistani businessmen have to take the lead and develop contacts with Chinese businessmen. They have been too slow in doing real things except visiting Beijing at times.
These businessmen are only doing business of importing commodities in containers from China whereas they should try to get transfer of technology to set up huge industrial zones in the country.

Unfortunately, the traders and industrialist classes still perceive China as ‘the workshop of the world’. Not much has so far been done to conduct serious research on the country as a potential market for Pakistan’s exports.
Fierce competition, rising costs of production, law and order situation and political uncertainty has put most manufacturers at the end of their wits. All they seek is safe exit from the field.

Some manufacturers, in sectors other than textile, have already shifted their major interests from industry to trade. Instead of planning additional investment, most are more occupied in preserving their already invested money. In such an environment there is little hope that private sector could take a lead to take the trouble and bear the cost of assessing the depth and breadth of the Chinese market for Pakistani industrial or agricultural products.

Pakistan’s exports have been going down day by day while the imports of China from all over the world increased. The latest figures released in Beijing show while Pakistan exported goods worth $561 million to China in 2000, its exports dropped to $537 million in 2002.
In the same two-year period Pakistan’s imports from China jumped from $796 million in 2001 to $1.2 billion in 2002. The prospects of imports from China would expand steadily as the Chinese products are cheaper and their quality is improving steadily. China is making headway in the electronic sphere and moving towards high tech manufactures, which it can sell at very low prices in Pakistan.

Chinese imports are now worth $230 billion and it has a $30 billion trade surplus. And it is not that only the advanced countries can export plenty to China. The US has, undoubtedly, a large trade deficit with China; simultaneously countries like Malaysia, Thailand and South Korea have large trade surplus with China. And if Pakistan goes about it the right way it can export far more to China.

China has so far just been perceived and projected as a country that is willing to assist Pakistan in development of metallurgy in public sector. For the private sector, it is a country that has potential to export both finished products and raw material at affordable prices in abundance.

“We have no interest in destroying any industry in Pakistan. We export on demand. Pakistani traders visit China, they place orders and get their consignments on terms and conditions agreed between trading partners”, contends Mr. Zuo, Vice Counsel, Economic and Commercial Office of the Chinese Consulate. China, he argues, as a policy encourages exports and even gives 15 per cent rebate to producers.

A clear-headed and optimistic paradigm shift can turn the “Chinese threat” into the “Chinese opportunity”. It is upto the business community of our country to plan out their WTO regime strategy wisely.


According to economists Goldman Sachs, China will overtake the US as the world's largest economy within the next few decades. By 2050, it will be signifcantly larger than the US. Also according to Goldman Sachs, Britain's economy will soon overtake Germany's.


World's largest economies in 2050 according to Goldman Sachs.

(US$bn)

1) China - 50000
2) US - 35000
3) India - 27000
4) Japan - 6000
5) Brazil - 5100
6) Russia - 5000
7) Britain - 4100
8) Germany - 3900
9) France - 3700
10) Italy - 3000


http://nation.com.pk/daily/dec-2004/6/bnews1.php
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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RE: Is the 'China threat'

42% of Chinese economic growth comes from consumption compared to 70% for the States. Fixed investment will be about 50% of GDP in China this year. That's frickin' huge. If the US goes into a recession, so will China. There's massive property speculation in some of the hottest areas of China, which is being fueled by the easy money policies of global central banks, as is occurring throughout much of the world. If and when that speculation comes to a screeching halt, there will be problems. I'd be cautious about predicting global GDP 50 years into the future, though its not unreasonable that at some point in time, China will surpass the US.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
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RE: Is the 'China threat'

Chinese food is great. I was in a restaurant in Fremont on the East Bay a couple years ago, and on the menu was "pig intestines." Mmmmm, boy.

But no, seriously, Chinese food is fantastic. I miss those great Szechuan restaurants all over Toronto.
 

Jo Canadian

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Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
 

jimmoyer

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Apr 3, 2005
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Sputnik Scare, Updated

By Robert J. Samuelson Post
Thursday, May 26, 2005; A27



Americans are having another Sputnik moment: one of those periodic alarms about some foreign technological and economic menace. It was the Soviets in the 1950s and early 1960s, the Germans and the Japanese in the 1970s and 1980s, and now it's the Chinese and the Indians. To anyone old enough, there's no forgetting Oct. 4, 1957, when the Soviets orbited the first space satellite. It terrified us. We'd taken our scientific superiority for granted. Foolish us. Soon there were warnings of a "missile gap" with the Soviets. One senator admonished that Americans should "be less concerned with . . . the height of the tail fin on the new car and . . . be more prepared to shed blood, sweat and tears if this country and the free world are to survive."

The missile gap turned out to be a myth, as did many later theories explaining why the Germans and the Japanese would inevitably surpass us. They were said to have better managers, better workers and better schools. They outsaved and outinvested us. It was just a matter of time. Let's see. In 2004, Americans' per capita incomes averaged $38,324, reports the Conference Board. The figures for Germany and Japan were $26,937 and $29,193.

One puzzle about the U.S. economy is why it doesn't do worse when there are so many reasons that it should. Our students do fare poorly on international comparisons. In a recent study of math skills of 15-year-olds in 29 countries, done by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, Americans ranked 24th. We do depend heavily on immigrants to fill science and engineering jobs. In 2000, immigrants accounted for 17 percent of U.S. scientists and engineers with bachelor's degrees, 29 percent with master's degrees and 38 percent with doctorates. And our savings and investment rates are low. In 2001, the U.S. savings rate ranked 22nd out of 25 OECD countries.

The explanation is this: Every complex economy is more (or less) than the sum of its parts. What matters is not just how much we save -- but how well we invest. The Japanese have squandered much of their higher savings on unproductive investments. Similarly, many work skills are learned on the job. Perhaps 70 percent of the gap in average incomes between the United States and Western Europe reflects the fact that Europeans work less than Americans. The Europeans are entitled to their preferences (longer vacations, earlier retirement), but their higher unemployment and lower labor-force participation rates mean that fewer people acquire real job skills -- and that some people with skills don't use them.

The apparent American deficit in scientists and engineers is also exaggerated. Only about a third of our science and engineering graduates take science and engineering jobs. The rest often work as managers, salespeople, analysts or something else. If there were a shortage, the pay would go up, especially for doctorates. In 1999, the median salary of U.S. scientists and engineers was $60,000 -- solid but not spectacular pay. Someone with a PhD typically earned only 15 percent more than someone with a bachelor's degree, a modest premium. As for immigrants, they come for the opportunities.

The Sputnik syndrome is an illusion. It transforms a few selective economic happenings -- a satellite here, a Toyota there, poor test scores everywhere -- into a full-blown theory of economic inferiority or superiority. As often as not, the result is misleading. We are now going through this process with China and India. Their entry into the global economy is a big deal, with some obvious pluses and minuses for us. As they get richer, some of their talent that once came our way may stay home (especially if we make getting U.S. visas harder). On the other hand, good ideas that originate in Bangalore or Shanghai will soon benefit people everywhere -- just as good American or Japanese ideas have before.

Do China and India threaten us economically? Possibly, though not in the usually imagined way. Their low wages and rising skills will continue to cost us some jobs, especially in an easily interconnected world. But if global trade were reasonably balanced, we should roughly gain what we lose. Countries that export would spend their earnings on imports.

Unfortunately, trade isn't well balanced. China and many Asian countries (though not India) run huge surpluses; they sell more than they buy. That's why the Bush administration is rightly pressuring China to revalue its currency, which would make Chinese exports more expensive and its imports less expensive. The danger is that the China bloc destabilizes the world economy -- not that it soon overtakes us.

On being overtaken, history teaches another lesson. America's economic strengths lie in qualities that are hard to distill into simple statistics or trends. We've maintained beliefs and practices that compensate for our weaknesses, including ambitiousness; openness to change (even unpleasant change); competition; hard work; and a willingness to take and reward risks. If we lose this magic combination, it won't be China's fault.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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China has a mission: with the collapse of the USSR, China see's its role as to be the force in opposition to "US Hegemony", ie, US world domination.

Interestingly enough, while there seems to be a vague awareness of this fact, the US is so completely smug, and so in love with the Walmart-cheap-cheap-cheap mentality, that they don't connect a couple of things.

Almost every major US corporation that does business in China has to do some technology transfer. All of the US high tech developments wind up being shared in China. I read somewhere that many parts that are essential to US weapons systems are now only manufactured in......China.

Now, I don't necessarily believe we need to be so scared of China, but they will become a force to be reckoned with. As far as the "brutal regime" goes, things have progressed so far that it will be hard to maintain for long. The average urban-dweller teenager in China has all the consumer goods, all the name brand clothes, all the electronics.....it's not a country of mindless zombies following the party line, but they don't generally make a public stand.