Is now the worst time for Brexit?

[coldstream]

Hardly a 'worst' time.. it is an 'inevitable' time. Trump, Brexit are the forefront of movement throughout the West of a reassertion of populism and nationalism over the failed experiment of globalism and moral relativism. It will be followed quickly by nationalist anti EU movements in the collapsing states at the perimeter of the EU.. Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy.. moving relentlessly inwards to France and Germany.

Canada's election of a radical Free Market government, with an equally radical post structural and morbid social platform was a one off, asymetric event brought on by an incompetent globalist government under Harper, and likely some confusion of Justin Trudeau's affinity to his father's economic nationalism.

Its become clear that Justin has not a clue of the trends in the West or competence to manage its challenges. He is bumbling around aimlessly like a stoned flower child. He likely will be pressed out of office as his own caucus fractures under his lack of leadership and vision and an evolving external dimension beyond his comprehension... in a year or two, not much longer.

 

[Machjo]

First, don't confuse free trade with moral relativism. They are two separate matters.

Secondly, don't confuse different motives for free trade. Some just want the economic advantages. In Europe though, it's closely linked to memories of WWII. The idea goes more economic interdependence means more peace. It's no coincidence that nationalism, protectionism, and xenophobia are rising together to unprecedented levels since WWII. It's worrying in fact.

 

[coldstream]

First, don't confuse free trade with moral relativism. They are two separate matters.

Secondly, don't confuse different motives for free trade. Some just want the economic advantages. In Europe though, it's closely linked to memories of WWII. The idea goes more economic interdependence means more peace. It's no coincidence that nationalism, protectionism, and xenophobia are rising together to unprecedented levels since WWII. It's worrying in fact.

Free Trade and moral relativism are, in fact, inextricably linked. Both trade on a false notion of personal and economic freedom, absent commensurate responsibility to others and to community or a shared purpose. Both manifest tyrannies in their detail and fine print. Moral relativism became the dominant ethos of the West when the nation ceased to be conceived as a moral OR economic entity.

Don't confuse nationalism with xenophobia. Xenophobia, of which fascism was a product, is a form of tribalism, not nationalism. Tribes respect no borders, define themselves in terms of 'blood', purity of the race, are rampant invaders and acquisitors, and are fundamentally slave societies. We see the Maquilladora Free Trade zones as containing a desperate, subjugated and captive work force, all to the benefit of an ever diminishing and grotesquely rich trading and financial class.

Nations are defined by stable borders, equitable sharing of wealth, orderly immigration and fair, managed trade, peaceful coexistence with neighbours.. all constructed on moral order founded in an originating faith. All those have been cast aside by Free Markets, moral relativism, radical individualism.

The reappearance of real nationalism, and real democracy in populism, as opposed to the cynical sophistry presented as truth by the media, in service of the elite... is the only hope of the West from descending into chaos.

 

[Machjo]

Had Christians refused to cross borders and allow others in, they could never have spread the Faith.

Trade and commerce also introduced people to the Faith. Remember, goods don't transport themselves across borders. People transport them across borders. Make no mistake about it, the free movement if people across the Roman Empire and especially the use of Latin and other regional languages as lingua franca also helped spread the Faith across borders.

Do we lock ourselves into out little fortresses or do we open ourselves to the human family?

Nationalism is anathema to the Christian Faith, not to be confused with patriotism and openness.

 

[Jinentonix]

The problem today is, free trade benefits no-one except the corporatists. Look at all the countries that are making the stuff we used to make for ourselves. A lot of the labour is essentially slave labour. Then there's the child labour. So coldstream is correct when he says free trade and moral relativism are inextricably linked.
And the corporations who can take advantage are loving the profits. Low pay, no labour laws, no safety standards, very few environmental laws if any, no tariffs or duties. And what do we get for it? Sh*t products produced by slave labour that break down pretty quickly.

 

[MHz]

It is when 'they quit moving things around' that things get really tough.

Advertising is near the top.

 

[tay]

We can’t leave the negotiations with Europe to the Tories

Britain is divided and insecure. Years of destructive austerity and a broken economic model have delivered a country of job insecurity, shortages of affordable housing, agency working, wage undercutting and gaping inequalities.

Since voters decided to leave the European Union, those divisions have grown wider. There has been a spike in racist and xenophobic incidents. Many remain voters feel shellshocked and alienated from those who backed leave. The country now faces economic and political crisis. The government is in disarray. As Labour demanded, George Osborne has had to drop his plan for a job-destroying budget surplus. But none of those seeking to replace David Cameron has any kind of exit plan. Instead, once again, they are planning to make working people pay, with yet more spending cuts and tax rises.

What’s needed instead is leadership and a clear strategy. We must respect the democratic decision of the British people – and negotiate a new relationship with the EU: one that protects jobs, living standards and workers’ rights – and also ensures we have the freedom to reshape a 21st century economy for all our people.

Leave voters were also concentrated in former industrial areas hit hardest by low pay, job insecurity and economic stagnation.

But we need to go further. During the referendum campaign, we argued for an end to EU-enforced liberalisation and privatisation of public services – and for freedom for public enterprise and public investment, now restricted by EU treaties. Those freedoms need to be part of the coming negotiations. Labour also campaigned for tougher regulation of the jobs market and of the exploitation of migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions, as the best way to protect jobs and living standards in the EU.

The same goes for Britain outside the EU. If freedom of movement means the freedom to exploit cheap labour in a race to the bottom, it will never be accepted in any future relationship with Europe. But the reality is that we have allies in that cause across Europe, as on many other issues that will be at the heart of the negotiations ahead. Those negotiations cannot be left to a Tory government that does not speak for the country.

That’s why I am meeting fellow European socialist leaders in Paris this week to discuss the refugee crisis and Europe’s future after Britain’s vote to leave. The increasing momentum to reform the EU will strengthen the Labour case.

After years of disastrous wars, ballooning inequality and a failing political elite, there can be no more business as usual.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...gotiations-europe-tories-exploit-cheap-labour

 

[Blackleaf]

Sorry Guardianistas, but the Tory Party are the party who the people voted for to run the country, and therefore they are the ones who should, and will, be doing the Brexit negotiations.

If we leave it to the Labour Party or the Liberal Democrats or the Greens we won't get anything worthwile at all.

 

[Blackleaf]

Twelve people have died after being stuck in a three-day traffic jam in Indonesia at an intersection known as "Brexit".

The traffic stretched for more than 13 miles at the junction of Brebes, a town on the main island of Java, as locals headed home to celebrate Eid. Locals refer to the toll gate at the intersection as Brexit, short for "Brebes exit."

 

[Machjo]

The problem today is, free trade benefits no-one except the corporatists. Look at all the countries that are making the stuff we used to make for ourselves. A lot of the labour is essentially slave labour. Then there's the child labour. So coldstream is correct when he says free trade and moral relativism are inextricably linked.
And the corporations who can take advantage are loving the profits. Low pay, no labour laws, no safety standards, very few environmental laws if any, no tariffs or duties. And what do we get for it? Sh*t products produced by slave labour that break down pretty quickly.

Firstly, 'corporatist' has different meanings. According to one definition, I might be a corporatist.

Secondly, free trade allows specialisation and economies if scale such as it is not possible through protectionism.

Now is it possible that the rich pocket the savings from free trade while laying off unskilled workers who become redundant as a result of these inefficiencies? Maybe.

If so, then perhaps we should raise taxes on the rich. But how does promoting inefficiency help anyone?

Again, free trade and the redistribution of wealth are separate matters. Maybe we could think of it as a pact: the poor allow free trade and the rich return the savings accrued from free trade to the people.

I'm no socialist, but as Brexit shows, especially in a democracy, there is no telling how the economically destitute will vote out of anger as a way to lash out irrationally at the rich.

 

[Walter]

Did someone forget to tell the markets that Brexit happened? Indices are well above pre-Brexit levels.

 

[Blackleaf]

They've also been boosted by the announcement that Britain will get her new leader on Wednesday rather than 9th September, as was planned. So that pre-referendum turmoil is at an end.

I just want May to tell us when she's going to trigger Article 50 and start to get us out of the EU.

 

[Machjo]

They've also been boosted by the announcement that Britain will get her new leader on Wednesday rather than 9th September, as was planned. So that pre-referendum turmoil is at an end.

I just want May to tell us when she's going to trigger Article 50 and start to get us out of the EU.

So, has she told us yet? And if not, why not?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Now is the best possible time for Brexit. The sooner the better.

 

[Machjo]

Now is the best possible time for Brexit. The sooner the better.

That's what the EU is saying but the UK just keeps on procrastinating.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

That's what the EU is saying but the UK just keeps on procrastinating.

Merkel should send 'em a thousand Muzzies a day til they f*ck off. They'd be out by next week.

 

[Machjo]

Merkel should send 'em a thousand Muzzies a day til they f*ck off. They'd be out by next week.

Oh don't let Blackleaf read this! He'll blow a fuse.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Oh don't let Blackleaf read this! He'll blow a fuse.

Blackshirt has an unblown fuse?

I call BS!

 

[Durry]

By separating, the Brits will do just fine, AND, they can pick the immigrants that they need, not just any group of scum balls!!

 

[Machjo]

On second thought, if it gets the UK to stop procrastinating and get on with implementing the will of the referendum, he might welcome such motivation... Unless of course the UK still just keeps on procrastinating.

I don't see how complicated it can be. Trigger Article 50 today, proclaim no deak tomorrow, and that's it. You default to WTO rules. Sure the UK economy would be pulvorized. But hey, at least foreigners won't have any more economic motive to go to the UK. Brilliant.