Iranian, Tukish forces moving to Iraq's borders to quell Kur

[Finder]

Re: Iranian, Tukish forces moving to Iraq's borders to quell

The federations that hold together are those such
as Great Britain, with England, Scotland and Wales.
Northern Ireland

Or commonwealths as England with Canada and Australia, etcetera.
common wealth not a federation.

Or federations such as the United States.
annexed Texas, plus Puerto Rico

Or federations such as Canada with its provinces
and semi-autonomous Nunavaat.
Quebec

Even the Chinese federation of Tibet and Sinkiang Uighers are a false relationship.
I'd agree

The only federations that are durable to any degree
are those as you said, Finder, by the will of the
people.

But none of the federations you named still don't value those who may disagree with it.

You have to be able to let these nations go tohave any chance of a lasting federation. For instance we let Quebec go if they chose but keep talking to them and come into federation as partners, not as conqour to conqered.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Iranian, Tukish forces moving to Iraq's borders to quell

But none of the federations you named still don't value those who may disagree with it.
------------------Finder----------------------------------

Oh c'mon.

Scotland has had the last several years with a newly
semi-autonomous home rule Parliament.

Canada certainly considered the Inuit interest,
and certainly considered Quebec's interest ---- not
perfectly but much better than your average
Tito or Hussein or Soviet or Chinese Strongman would
have.


In addition, I divine some inchoate notion of democracy
as the simple will of opinion. Thank God, polls don't
count, or the democracy we have will surely degenerate
into a trivial, ephemeral, willful and unprocessed
thoughts of a hanging mob.

We must deliberate upon the passions of the day
and not subject it to a vote every week, nor every
year. Let critical mass OVER TIME develop.

 

[Finder]

Re: Iranian, Tukish forces moving to Iraq's borders to quell

The UK in general is not a good federation, as one of the federation members has a large grievance with the centrial government. Also Scotland does as well and semi-autonomous parliments don't really count that much. When you take into account most of the Yugoslavian republics were autonomous to a large extent and the soviets had allowed the republics to run like personal fiefdoms of local officals as long as they followed magor directives from moscow it means little unless you believe the soviet module was a good module.

You know I'm a Democratic Republic and I have room for both representational democracy and direct democracy as acceptable, but of course a need for both, with checks and balances to keep a stable nation. But thats once you have a nation. If you hold lands which are not yours or in which do not wish to be apart of your nation in a sence your a empire with imperial possens and you are an opressor. I'm not against nation building, nor against federations or republics but it must be done with both parties with diolog going both ways, not one way diolog.

 

[jimmoyer]

RE: Iranian, Tukish forces moving to Iraq's borders to quell

The Soviets allowed the Yugoslavian republics to
act autonomously and independently ?

Oy veh.

I wonder how that happened since Tito maintained
independent defiance of both USSR and China
and Albania allied with China. Both Yugoslavia and
Albania were the only Communist countries in Europe who defied and stayed out of the Soviet camp.


Look, you're a creature of a democracy that complains
alot in headlines. You didn't hear the complaints
in Tito Land, nor in Hussein Land.

Your comparison is unjust and false.

Democratic federations have the best chances
despite all of the imperfections, and those you
mention in Yugoslavia, Iraq, USSR, and China are
held only by the glue of a Strong Man's violent
threat.