Interested in visiting North Korea?

Would you be interested in visiting North Korea?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • No.

    Votes: 5 62.5%
  • Other answer.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
You're joking, right?

If I go, it would be to get to know the people, not the government.

Mostly joking, yea. The thing about visiting North Korea though is that you would see very little of the day-day living or the people them selves as you are constantly followed by guides (security agents) to make sure you don't see poverty or anything that might be embarrassing to the "Dear Leader". You basically end up seeing all the monuments to Kim Jong and his Father, empty streets and that ancient US destroyer they like to show off. Koryo Tours - Tours & Tour Dates
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
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Ottawa, ON
Mostly joking, yea. The thing about visiting North Korea though is that you would see very little of the day-day living or the people them selves as you are constantly followed by guides (security agents) to make sure you don't see poverty or anything that might be embarrassing to the "Dear Leader". You basically end up seeing all the monuments to Kim Jong and his Father, empty streets and that ancient US destroyer they like to show off. Koryo Tours - Tours & Tour Dates

That website is not the company I was offered to go with, but yes, I agree that that would be my main concern. The best thing about visiting a country is the chance to make friends with the locals. Otherwise, if it's just a sightseeing tour, forget it. I'm not yet convinced that I'd get to meet many locals, and that's a major source of my hesitation. If I should find out that I'm wrong on that, then I'd definitely consider it.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
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United States
Have you been there? Tell me, is China a fun place?

Been to South Korea and took a peek across the border at the North, didn't look nice. Sort of a sterile look.

Had a great time in China, saw the Great Wall, pretty much allowed to go anywhere we wanted around Beijing.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I voted yes Machjo, you should go.

Seeing the world, in all its splendid glory is beneficial to everyone.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Been to South Korea and took a peek across the border at the North, didn't look nice. Sort of a sterile look.

Had a great time in China, saw the Great Wall, pretty much allowed to go anywhere we wanted around Beijing.

Hmmm... could that sterile look have had anything to do with the fact that it was a militarized zone along the border?

I'm not saying that you're wrong necessarily, but I am saying questioning whether the fact that the border with South Korea is sterile that the rest of the country is necessarily so.

After all, if they can sent rockets into the atmosphere and build nuclear weapons, they must have some kind of industrial base somewhere.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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I voted yes Machjo, you should go.

Seeing the world, in all its splendid glory is beneficial to everyone.

Sure, if you get to see the locals. But if it's just a guided sightseeing tour, then forget it, it's not like I'd learn much that way anyway.

I would only go if assured that I did in fact have the freedom to mingle freely with the locals.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Sure, if you get to see the locals. But if it's just a guided sightseeing tour, then forget it, it's not like I'd learn much that way anyway.
You sound like me, lol...

I used to work for a contract mining company that did work for several mines all around the world. I spent a few years bouncing around the globe, rock bolting, shot creting and moving heavy equip. I have to say, my favourite place was South America. The towns were small and thus, the tourism light. The company often hired taxi drivers or locals to chaperone us off facility. He was such a hoot and so friendly, that when I came back to Canada, I grabbed SCB and took her down to meet him. Although we booked a room at a resort a fair distance away, we never stayed a night in our room. We stayed with him and his family. They fed us, showed us around and we had the absolute time of our lives.

When you visit foriegn lands, it's oft safer to stay in resorts, in some countries, but if you can. Get out, meet the locals and have a great time...

So I hear ya, sterile would be to sit on a bus and told to look right and left, lol.



I would only go if assured that I did in fact have the freedom to mingle freely with the locals.
I can't comment on North Korea, but I do remember Cuba of old, though I've been told it's changed drastically. We went from airport to resort, took one tour that was well routed to avoid anything that could result in bad press and we were even told at one point, to put our camera's away.

North Korea seems for all appearences to be at the tight stage right now. But don't let my opinions sway your opinion. Please, by all means, look in to this. I wouldn't want you to miss out on something you will hold dear the rest of your life.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
Durka, even if you're a communist, that regime is not there to help the poor as communists are supposed to.

This is why I wouldn't go. I made the decision a couple of years ago that I couldn't go to a country if I REALLY disagreed with their politics. It meant no job in Saudi Arabia and no vacation to Myanmar. I took a job in the US and went to Thailand on vacation instead. Say all you want about getting to know the people, a good portion of your money goes to the government so you're supporting them. I would think it would be unlikely you'd have many candid interactions with the locals anyways. Not my idea of a nice trip, but good luck if you go.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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This is why I wouldn't go. I made the decision a couple of years ago that I couldn't go to a country if I REALLY disagreed with their politics. It meant no job in Saudi Arabia and no vacation to Myanmar. I took a job in the US and went to Thailand on vacation instead. Say all you want about getting to know the people, a good portion of your money goes to the government so you're supporting them. I would think it would be unlikely you'd have many candid interactions with the locals anyways. Not my idea of a nice trip, but good luck if you go.

Actualy, I disagree with the idea of refusing to go to a country based on its politics. We never agree 100% with the politics of any country, so does that mean we should just stay at home for ever?

When I'd travelled to China in spite of the political system, I still had a chance to get to know the locals. I'd had many candid conversations with many people, and learnt things about them that I could not have by just staying in Canada, along with their perspective of their government, etc.

These interactions not only helped me better understand them, but also helped them better understand me. It does go both ways. And I was surprised to find that though the PRC is by no means a democracy, that it is strongly influenced by public opinion none-the-less. Anti-government demonstrations do occur and are generally tolerated if peaceful (I'd witnessed some myself) and if challenging a policy and not the government itself. As far as religious freedoms are concerned, as it turns out, most Chinese are not religious and, owing to their history (Opium Wars), they still tend to be very wary of religion today. In this respect, though we may not agree with their religious restrictions, the government's policies are not so radically different from the opinion of the common Chinese. In fact, many Chinese support some kind of restriction on religions. I disagree, but at lest I can understand their apprehension, not to mention that religious freedom is growing slowly and gradually.

Before we criticise China for its relgious policies, let's look at Ontario's preferential treatment of Catholics in its public school policies, and defended in the Canadian Constitution. Also, though China has much improvement to do as far as respect for its minority groups is concerned, its protection of minority cultures would put Canada to shame as far as our treatment of the First Nations are concerned.

We can look at Tibet and criticize China for their colonization of the area. Bear in mind though that Tibet still has its own Tibetan-medium schools. The government helped create an alphabet for other minority languages, and created schools for them too. It also gave them various autonomous regions, etc.

Sure Canada has created Nunavut and sure there are schools for Canada's First nations, but nothing like China's minority groups. There are Korean-medium schools in Changchun (Korean Chinese that is, not Korean nationals), Russian schools in Xinjiang (again, nothing to do with Russia, but a minority ethnic group), Urumqi's streets are full of Arabic script and many women there wear burqas, and mosques abound. I've seen all of this with my own eyes. I'd visited a few mosques and churches and temples out of curiosity, and they're very active.
Sure China has its ethnic tensions, but it's a much more complex society than you give it credit for. It's politics are but a small, minute part of that country. For us to boycott a people because of their government is to deprive that people of meaningful contact with the outside. Sure the government gets some money out of it, but then again, the Canadian gets money too which it uses in various corrupt ways too. So let's not be too judgemental.
I've met many chinese who, though they might not agree with the CPC on every front, still defend it on the grounds that they see it as a source of unity in the country. Most Chinese also view Tibet as part of China whether we agree with it or not, just as we see all of Canada's indigenous peoples as part of Canada even if some of them refuse to call themselves Canadians but call themselves an occupied people too, as some still do.

No country is purely evel and no country is purely angelic. To boycott a country because of its politics is the epitome of hypocricy.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Actualy, I disagree with the idea of refusing to go to a country based on its politics. We never agree 100% with the politics of any country, so does that mean we should just stay at home for ever?


No country is purely evel and no country is purely angelic. To boycott a country because of its politics is the epitome of hypocricy.

Notice the words REALLY in caps in my post. I'm hardly someone who has just stayed home. I wish I could travel more but I've been to several different countries (in Europe and a couple in Asia) as well as travelled around N America a fair bit.

It's true I don't ever 100% agree with the politics of any country, but I'm willing to let my money go to support the government of Thailand, the US, Poland, France, India, etc. because I don't feel strongly enough about their policies to boycott them. There is a hierarchy of evil in the world and at some point, a government is too evil to get my money. I'm not willing to let it go to support the government of N Korea or the Sudan for instance because of it. It's a small act, but I still get to choose where my money goes and it has to be consistent with my beliefs. I fail to see how it's hypocritical to make judgements about whether you want your money going to support a government you vehemently disagree with or not. People use the word judgemental in a negative tone almost all the time, but humans have the ability to reason precisely so they can make judgements and act accordingly. I think it would be hypocritical to criticize that government's human rights abuses, weapons aspirations, etc. and then give them revenue.

You sound a bit defensive because of your time in China and how people judge that country, but whether you agree with them or disagree with them isn't important. They get to make your decision just like you got to make yours. You asked whether people on this forum would visit N Korea. I simply answered honestly: I don't want my money going to support that country's government in any way and I couldn't reconcile vacationning there knowing that it would be especially considering how unlikely it would be for me to actually get any meaningful/honest interaction with locals.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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48
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. For us to boycott a people because of their government is to deprive that people of meaningful contact with the outside..

I feel like this is the part that's really missing... When I lived in the Czech republic, one of my host dads was a nuclear scientist of some kind (I don't think I would have fully understood his explanation of his job in English let alone in Czech:lol:). Before the velvet revolution he travelled internationally. His family wasn't allowed to leave because that made it less likely he'd defect and he always travelled with "minders". He wasn't stupid enough to be candid about his opinions under such circumstances because he knew the potential punishments. That was just under the old European communists. You think the North Koreans are less watchful of their citizens' interactions with outsiders? People who think they are getting meaningful contact with citizens living in such a system are kidding themselves. At best you'll get the illusion of meaningful contact and to me that's the worst thing.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Ottawa, ON
I admit that I overreacted there, Tracy, and I'm sorry. It's ture that the situation in North Korea might very well be different from that in China. And even I am still uncertain about going to North Korea mainly because I would want to ensure meaningful interactions with the locals as was the case in China. Without such a guarantee, a trip there would be meaningless.